The Instigator
Concentratingape
Pro (for)
The Contender
Dujec
Con (against)

Homosexuality is a dangerous sexual deviance and should be illegal

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/12/2016 Category: Science
Updated: 6 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 663 times Debate No: 96068
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (23)
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Concentratingape

Pro

The facts are out on overall homosexual comportment and deviant sexual proclivities such as pedophilia. Of course I'm speaking generally and there are

Sexual deviance definition
1. A condition, such as exhibitionism or masochism, in which sexual gratification is derived from activities or fantasies that are generally regarded as atypical or deviant.
2. Such a condition when it causes distress or impaired functioning in the individual or actual or potential harm to others; a paraphilic disorder

Pedohpilia definition
1. a paraphilia in which an adult desires or engages in sexual relations with a child; it may be either homosexual or heterosexual in nature. adj., adj pedophilic.
2.arousing fantasies of engaging or repeatedly engages in sexual activity with a prepubertal child.pedophilic
Dujec

Con

Thanks to Pro for setting up this debate. I will use this round for acceptance so that I do not get an extra round for arguments.
Debate Round No. 1
Concentratingape

Pro

Thanks and good luck!

Homosexuality is something most of us are taught to lump in with other sets of behaviors that is to be looked upon as normal. Besides the fact that homosexuals are attracted to people of the same gender - and the reasons thereof are still in debate - they are just like straight people. This is what I was led to believe as well in lieu of the evidence that I was never shown and that we on the whole are never told.

To promote the idea that homosexuals overall are cut out the same way as straight people is an agenda driven nonsense since we now have multiple data demonstrating the homosexual lifestyle, predilections and inclinations of said group and how this attests to the inconvenient truth of homosexuality.

The fact that the aids-epidemic is 50 times more prevalent than in the standard male population should tell you something and there's much to be said about what goes in to it. However if we just look at what some of the main causes are, is first of all the rate of promiscuity in the gay community, which, when it comes down to it, the hearsay are not wrong on the money when they say that there seems to be no bounds as far as sexual liberty goes. The fact that 28% of homosexual men have had more than 1000 partners, 43% estimated that they have had sex with over 500 people and that over 83% have had sex with more than 50 partners in their lifetime, suggests that homosexuality is a sexual compulsion, and a widespread at that. 79% of homosexual men report that over half of sex partners are strangers. 70% reported that over half of their sexual partners were people with whom they had sex only once. (1)(2)

Another study from 1978."A far-ranging study of homosexual men published in 1978 revealed that 75 percent of self-identified, white, gay men admitted to having sex with more than 100 different males in their lifetime: 15 percent claimed 100-249 sex partners; 17 percent claimed 250-499; 15 percent claimed 500-999; and 28 percent claimed more than 1,000 lifetime male sex partners. By 1984, after the AIDS epidemic had taken hold, homosexual men were reportedly curtailing promiscuity, but not by much. Instead of more than 6 partners per month in 1982, the average non-monogamous respondent in San Francisco reported having about 4 partners per month in 1984." (3)

Of course we always hear the red herring of how gays just want to be married and be like everyone else. This is of course laughable seeing that the reported fidelity rate among homosexual males in relationships are 4,5% compared to 85% among married females and 75,5% among married males. Now we can go on and perhaps take a more scrutinizing look at those numbers for married men and women to get a more exact look and see whether there' something more to it, but there's just no comparison with what we get from homosexual males. (4)(5)

Just let those numbers sink in for a moment and then let's move on to further troubling figures.

Another gruesome and abhorrent fact about homosexuals is the fact that the rate of child molestation and pedophilia is far more frequent among homosexuals on a per capita basis compared to heterosexuals.

"Overwhelming evidence supports the belief that homosexuality is a sexual deviancy often accompanied by disorders that have dire consequences for our culture," wrote Steve Baldwin in, "Child Molestation and the Homosexual Movement" published in Regent University Law Review.

"It is difficult to convey the dark side of the homosexual culture without appearing harsh," wrote Baldwin. "However, it is time to acknowledge that homosexual behavior threatens the foundation of Western civilization " the nuclear family." says Baldwin is the executive director of the Council for National Policy in Washington, D.C who also fought against homosexual agenda incursions in schools saying "efforts to target children both for their own sexual pleasure and to enlarge the homosexual movement" constitute an "unmistakable" attack on "the family unit."

Psychologist Eugene Abel research found that homosexuals "sexually molest young boys with an incidence that is occurring from five times greater than the molestation of girls. This is further cited by Dr. Judith Reisman who published her thesis also in Regent University Law Review,

What Abel found is astonishing to say the least, that non-incarcerated "child molesters admitted from 23.4 to 281.7 acts per offender " whose targets were males.

"The rate of homosexual versus heterosexual child sexual abuse is staggering," says Reisman, the principal investigator for a $800,000 Justice Department grant studying child pornography and violence. "Abel"s data of 150.2 boys abused per male homosexual offender finds no equal (yet) in heterosexual violations of 19.8 girls."

Not only does the research show that homosexuals at a vastly disproportionate rate molest children as compared to heterosexuals seeing that gay men only make up 2% of the population, the fact that gay culture openly promotes sex with children does not make their case any better.

"The editorial board of the leading pedophile academic journal, Paidika, is dominated by prominent homosexual scholars such as San Francisco State University professor John DeCecco, who happens to edit the Journal of Homosexuality," Baldwin wrote.

In The Journal of Homosexuality published a paper called, "Male Intergenerational Intimacy," in which sex between and and minor boys are depicted as loving relationships. One article said parents should look upon the pedophile who loves their son "not as a rival or competitor, not as a theft of their property, but as a partner in the boy"s upbringing, someone to be welcomed into their home."

In 1995 the homosexual magazine "Guide" said, "We can be proud that the gay movement has been home to the few voices who have had the courage to say out loud that children are naturally sexual" and "deserve the right to sexual expression with whoever they choose. "" The article went on to say: "Instead of fearing being labeled pedophiles, we must proudly proclaim that sex is good, including children"s sexuality " we must do it for the children"s sake."

Larry Kramer, the founder of ACT-UP, a noted homosexual activist group, wrote in his book, "Report from the Holocaust: The Making of an AIDS Activist": "In those instances where children do have sex with their homosexual elders, be they teachers or anyone else, I submit that often, very often, the child desires the activity, and perhaps even solicits it."

They studied advertisements in the influential homosexual newspaper, The Advocate, in it Reisman found ads for a "Penetrable Boy doll... available in three provocative positions. She also found that the number of erotic boy images in each issue of The Advocate averaged 14

Homosexual newspapers and travel publications advertise prominently for countries where boy prostitution is heavy, such as Burma, the Philippines, Sri Lanka and Thailand.

Youth-oriented much?

"Research on the homosexual lifestyle confirms it is almost exclusively a youth-oriented culture," Baldwin wrote. "Very few gays exhibit preference for older men. Some admit to focus on teenage boys," he said, "some on prepubescent boys, and many cross over between categories."

A 1988 study detailed in Baldwin"s report found that most pedophiles even consider themselves to be "gay." According to the study, "Archives of Sexual Behavior," some 86 percent of pedophiles described themselves as homosexual or bisexual. Also, the study found, the number of teenage male prostitutes who identify as homosexuals has risen from 10 percent to 60 percent in the past 15 years.

For those who've tried to refute Baldwin his answer is, "for them to say this theory is false is to call many of the homosexual movement"s leaders liars," he said. "Most of my evidence comes right from the gay community.I managed to find enough evidence that my thesis " child molestation is an integral part of the homosexual movement " is a valid thesis."

"How long can psychologists be in denial about the significance of the dark side, and ignore what it implies about the homosexual condition? And there"s a matter of even greater concern. How long will psychologists eagerly throw open the door to gay life for every sexually confused teenager?" writes Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D, on behalf of NARTH " the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality " a group that says it exists to "provide psychological understanding of the cause, treatment and behavior patterns associated with homosexuality, within the boundaries of a civil public dialogue."

The North American Man-Boy Love Association, or NAMBLA, is "a group that openly promotes sex with minor boys and claims that boy-lovers respond to the needs of the boys they love," Baldwin said in his report.

Shockingly enough (perhaps not by now once you've read up until this part) the group is often endorsed by "many of the homosexual movement"s most prominent leaders," he said. (5)

Ok, so now I provided you with the gist of it. Clearly the evidence shows without any doubt that homosexuality, whatever the cause, brings with it destructive sets of behaviors, not only for the individual itself but for the society at large.It's without a second of a doubt dangerous to say the least to leave your son with a boy scout you suspect might be gay or is an avid reader of the Advocate, so why should we let this behavior be normalized in our society? Instead we should recognize it as a dangerous sexual deviance that should be outlawed and unaccepted in mainstream society.

1.https://www.lifesitenews.com...
2.exodusglobalalliance.org/ishomosexualityhealthyp60.php p.308
3.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html
4.http://michaelwiederman.com...
5.The Male Couple: How Relationships Develop (1984): 252-253
6.http://www.wnd.com...
Dujec

Con

Pro’s sourcing connecting pedophilia to the gay orientation are not reliable, biased and not based on accurate research. Men more frequently look for multiple sexual partners and gay men are no exception. Pro is ignoring the lesbian population and his arguments are not relevant to civil law. While the prevalence of STDs may be unique problem for gay men; it is irrelevant to the resolution and it should spark an awareness campaign not jail time or legal penalties.

A. There is no absolutely connection between the homosexual orientation and pedophilia and there are already laws in place against sexual abuse of children.

This is Pro’s most contentious point and does not support the resolution. If it were true, the pedos should be prosecuted; there is absolutely no reason to penalize the whole gay population for the behavior of some.

-biased unreliable sourcing

Pro brings up several points from an article authored Steve Baldwin who is a self proclaimed born again Christian [1.1]. As Pro points out he is on the board of directors for a right wing religious organization, Council for National Policy. The article he references is from the fundamentalist college, Regent University, with the mission statement, “Regent University serves as a center of Christian thought and action to provide excellent education through a biblical perspective and global context equipping Christian leaders to change the world[1.2].

The article does not site peer reviewed studies and is not peer reviewed so Baldwin’s assertions can be discarded.
The author, organization and the sources are biased (this is a trend for Pro) toward the teachings of the bible which does criminalize homosexuality without any justification. They have a faith based position before the facts come in so they are searching for anything that support their narrative.

-Pro’s bible believing sources believe that it is wrong gay without any evidence.

Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Leviticus 18:22: " Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Romans 1:26: “Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.

In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

1 Corinthians: “Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, … nor homosexuals,nor sodomites, … will inherit the kingdom of God.”

-Irrelevant arguments

Eugene Abel noted an imbalance toward male to male pedophilia and I’m not sure how the point addresses the resolution since Pro has asserted that the homosexual orientation should be criminalized for both men and women and there are virtually no instances of female to female abuse. It’s not a shocker as men are more interested in sex for it’s own sake I think I will go ahead and concede that there may be some Homosexuals may support pedophilia but the question is not relevant. I’m sure there are heterosexuals who are also deranged in that way. I may address how Pro has misrepresented and cherry picked quotes to support this point next round.

-The reliable research refute Pro’s claim.

The vast majority of these criminals are not attracted to male adults. They cannot be cannot be classified as homosexual, heterosexual or bisexual because they are not capable of adult sexual relationships. A study of convicted pedophiles found that none of them were attracted to adult men.

Another study reviewed the medical charts of children admitted to the emergency room found that less than 1% of the identified molesters were gay or lesbian. Using Pro’s figure of 2% homosexual population this would indicate a much lower incidence of child molestation among homosexuals.

Canadian researchers took novel approach measuring sexual arousal while adult males were shown images of adults, prepubescents and children. The subjects were vetted to ensure that they were attracted to adult men or women. They were shown clothed models accompanied by audio describing every day activities. They were also shown nude photos with audio recordings describing sexual fantasies with the models.

“researchers found that homosexual males responded no more to male children than heterosexual males responded to female children.”

After a review of available scientific research Dr Nicholas Groth wrote, “The research to date all points to there being no significant relationship between a homosexual lifestyle and child molestation. There appears to be practically no reportage of sexual molestation of girls by lesbian adults, and the adult male who sexually molests young boys is not likely to be homosexual”

In another review of available research Dr. Nathaniel McConaghy reported, "The man who offends against prepubertal or immediately postpubertal boys is typically not sexually interested in older men or in women"

The lack of any connection between homosexuality and an increased propensity toward pedophilia is widely accepted in the scientific community. There is no reliable scientific research that concludes Homosexuals are more likely to be pedophiles when compared with heterosexuals.

B. Gay men often pursue multiple sexual partners (jealous much?).


I’ll concede that gay men get more action than straight men and there are great reasons for straight men to be envious of this. It’s widely accepted that men think about sex much more often than women [1.4]. They tend to seek multiple sexual partners unrelated to any emotional attachment. A Man’s sex drive is more often closely tied to biology and a drive to have sex based on physical attraction alone.

Men think about sex at least once a day while only one quarter of women report the same. Prostitution is virtually always a male seeking a woman. Two thirds of men will admit to regular masturbation while only half that number is reported by women. A recent study indicated that men may think about sex as much as 388 times and an average of 18.6 times a day [1.5].

In contrast women are very likely to pursue a relationship and emotional connection before sex [1.4]. There sex drive is less biological and they are much less likely to pursue sex with multiple partners. They are more affected by cultural and social norms and for religious countries that attaches a strong taboo to premarital sex it’s less likely for them to feel comfortable with multiple partners (thanks fundies).

Most straight men would likely be have multiple sexual partners and normally jump at any chance to have sex. The opportunities are likely to be more frequent for gay men due to the shared biological drive. Even if this is not true, is Pro suggesting that promiscuity should be illegal?

C. Studies indicating a higher incidence of Pedophilia share common errors

As with Pro’s sourcing, research concluding there is a propensity toward pedophilia with homosexuals share common flaws. They often concede that in male-male molestation cases the offenders are not attracted to adult men but fail to make the distinction or do not address this issue at all. They have flawed research techniques or fail to report their research methodology. They are affiliated with religious organizations that believe homosexuality is a ‘sin’ carrying an obvious bias.

D. If Pro’s arguments are true he has produced nothing that indicates it should be illegal to be born gay and engage in natural sexual relationships.


Pro has argued that his position is based on research and not a faith based position but the majority of research suggesting that homosexuality is destructive or immoral is coming from faith based organizations. We are talking about civil law and Pro has not been able to produce one behavior that has been criminalized in the past that is more common to homosexuals that is illegal. On top of that pedophilia is illegal so why would you criminalize a minority group instead of the offenders?

E. Sexually transmitted diseases are more common among gay men.


I’ll concede this point but how does this support your resolution? With more opportunities for sex there is more opportunities for condoms to break or for irresponsible behavior. It’s not illegal to have multiple partners.

-

Pro’s arguments to not support the resolution. Pedophilia is illegal and all reliable research indicates homosexuals are not more likely to engage in this behavior. Pro’s other arguments do not lead to the conclusion that it should be illegal to be a homosexual.

[1.1]http://www.theblaze.com...

[1.2] https://www.regent.edu...

[1.3] http://psychology.ucdavis.edu...

[1.4] http://www.webmd.com...

[1.5] https://www.psychologytoday.com...

[1.6] https://www.youtube.com...

Debate Round No. 2
Concentratingape

Pro

There is plenty of evidence of the homosexual link to pedophilia and this round I'll provide direct sources from documented research that proves my contention without a moment's doubt. As you and many gay activists claim, that homosexuality doesn't have anything to do with pedophilia because the latter focuses solely on sexual relations with children as opposed to with adults, I have provided data showing this stereotypical view is not correct and I'll go further with my proof in this round.

First we can start by acknowledging that sexual abuse against children is invariably committed by men.

Kee MacFarlane, et al., writing in Sexual Abuse of Young Children: Evaluation and Treatment report: "The large majority of sexual perpetrators appear to be males"

Now, as we look at sexual abuse against boys, we see research showing that this abuse is underreported and could even be at the same level as sexual abuse against girls.

One study found that "some authors now believe that boys may be sexually abused as commonly as girls (Groth, 1978; O"Brien,1980)."

The actual percentage of child sexual abuse victims who are boys very likely exceeds current estimates. Many researchers shares the view of the Journal of Child Psychiatry study, which refers to the "under-reporting of the incidence and prevalence of sexual abuse in boys." Dr. Robert Johnson, in Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality, reports:" The vast majority of cases of male sexual molestation is not reported. As a result, these young men keep both the incidents and their feelings to themselves."

The Department of Justice report on child sexual exploitation explains why this is the case: "Adolescent boy victims are highly likely to deny certain types of sexual activity."They are embarrassed and ashamed of their behavior and rightfully believe that society will not understand their victimization."No matter what the investigator does, most adolescent boys will deny they were victims."

A study of 457 male sex offenders against children in Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy found that "The proportional prevalence of offenders against male children in this group of 457 offenders against children was 36 percent." In a similar research by same author " "Approximately one-third of these individuals had victimized boys and two-thirds had victimized girls. This finding is consistent with the proportions reported in two earlier studies," " (1)(2)

Regarding the proof you furnished, look like it's very common among Pro-homosexual activists, and foot soldiers like yourself, rest much of this argument on a single study by Carole Jenny (which is from the third link you sent me) which claims that only 2 of 269 child molesters could be identified as gay or lesbian. However, the problem with Jenny's study is the atypical research technique used. Funny enough the reported child molesters themselves were not interviewed. Instead (and this part is laughable) the researchers relied upon the subjective reports of "informants" who accompanied the child-victim to the medical clinic. Only if the "informant" explicitly volunteered the opinion that perpetrator was a homosexual, and that opinion was recorded on the clinic"s medical chart, was he or she classified as such. Moreover, if there was any evidence that the perpetrator had ever engaged in a heterosexual relationship, he or she was automatically classified as heterosexual. Despite the narrow profile used in the study, the fact is that the study itself found that 22 percent of the children had been molested by a person of the same sex. In these cases the molesters clearly engaged in homosexual molestation. So so much for your rebuttal by citing phony research. I have listed the pages where you can read all about the ridiculous methodology used in the pro-homosexual study which, despite the deceptive nature, even went as far as to prove my point. (3)

That is the only research paper you've used and this Groth and McConaghy guy and who've purportedly looked at "the research to date" and those include what? If they rely on this piece of cr*p research, then they are not trustworthy to begin with.

The fact is that researchers knows and acknowledge that the reasons many pedophiles are not caught is because they do not fit into a typical cut-and-dry mould or stereotype but in fact exhibit various sexual tendencies and behaviors. Thus, rendering such a narrow view as phony Jenny does not do justice to what research is beginning to get the hang of about the complex nature of pedophilia.

A study on sex offenders in the International Journal of Offender Therapy and Comparative Criminology report the same finding: "the reason child sexual abusers are successful at remaining undetected is because they do not fit a stereotype."

Research investigating sex offenders against male children in Behavior Research and Therapy found that male homosexual pedophiles exhibited sexual attraction to "males of all ages." Compared to non-offenders, the offenders showed "greater arousal" to slides of nude males as old as twenty-four: "As a group, the child molesters responded with moderate sexual arousal"to the nude males of all ages." (4)

As I may have stated in the previous round, in a study of 229 convicted child molesters made by Archives of Sexual Behaviour found that "86 percent of offenders against males described themselves as homosexual or bisexual". Hence many pedophiles, in fact, consider themselves to be homosexual. (5)

Even though there is research out there supporting my claim, don't kid yourself in believing that this is a tenable thesis to hold in today's society. The only way to be able to hold politically incorrect views and state them publicly is if you're independently wealthy, sort of like we're seeing Donald Trump come out of the woodwork now. Here's an example of a CEO who lost his position because of a position of his on gay marriage. This is the kind of witch hunt that goes on in our society. Even if the truth is poking you in the face, if it doesn't go along with the narrative you can lose your job, livelihood and so on, so I don't expect researchers to be all outspoken against gays. (6)

The passages you list in the bible are absolutely irrelevant and the university's adherence to Christian believes and morals as well since they've produced research that, unlike what my opponent claims, fully hinge on documented research. It's partly my fault because I didn't provide the research paper in the last debate, but as you'll see, there are well documented research supporting the whole paper and you'll find no reference to the Bible, so your bigotry is not based on anything, so you ca go ahead and drop that point.

Here's the paper that is so "Christian". https://www.regent.edu...

In that paper, several pieces of evidence of pedophile themes appearing in major newspaper and gay culture that I mentioned in previous round, that is something my opponent has yet to answer for. To add a few more, here are books appearing in Gay Men"s Press fiction bestseller list:

For a Lost Soldier: the story of a sexual relationship between a soldier and an eleven-year-old boy, set during World War II.

A Good Start, Considering: yet another story about an eleven-year-old boy (!) who suffers sexual abuse but is rescued by a teenager who "offers him love and affection"

Teardrops on My Drum: barefoot kids in 1920s" Liverpool search for "adventure, love and sex."

Some Boys: described as a "memoir of a lover of boys" that "evokes the author"s young friends across four decades."

and so on, and so on, and so forth.

The part where homosexuals are having affairs with hundred and - as I showed - many over 1,000 partners, shows that gay men overall have bonding and attachment issues which also goes into compulsive sexual behavior. Both are underlying psychological problems. As one gay writer writes: "trying to locate monogamy among gay men is like trying to hunt for truffles." Hence, the way we've organised our society and the way we view a healthy sexuality is between a man and a wife. Now there have of course been a shift in consciousness since we no longer have any check over women's sexuality and so in the the wake of the 1960s sexual revolution ensued a more promiscuous lifestyle overall. However, most persons would agree that a union (whether hetero- or homosexual) is more preferable to a life of jumping from partner to partner. We may have deviated from the historical norm, mostly because of the pill and other contraceptive articles and because the welfare state allows women to not have to be dependent on a man for economic dependence but can instead receive on government handouts (let me also add no-fault divorce into the mix). However, the lion share of straight people want to find a life long partner. This does not seem to be the case with homosexuals. The push for homosexual marriage seems more to be a push for more economic rights that are granted to wedded households.

I think I shown clear evidence of sexual aberration and unwholesome behavior. Notwithstanding the fact that gays have a considerable shorter lifespan, psychological problems associated, etc. there are also the children's risk that I can't stress enough. The gay lifestyle and movement pose a threat to society and should therefore be illegal. End of story.

1. Pedophilia and Heterosexuality vs. Homosexuality," Journal of Sex & Marital
Therapy 10 (1984): 197.
2. "Heterosexuality, Homosexuality, and Erotic Age Preference," p. 107.
3. Carole Jenny, et al., "Are Children at Risk for Sexual Abuse by Homosexuals?" Paediatrics 94 ( July
1994): 41"44.
4. Sexual Offenders against Male Children: Sexual Preferences, p.388
5. W. D. Erickson, "Behavior Patterns of Child Molesters," Archives of Sexual Behavior 17 (1988):
83.
6. https://www.youtube.com...
Dujec

Con


Pro has not met his burden of proof and none of his assertions justify criminalizing millions of Americans for being born.


A. There is no absolutely connection between the homosexual orientation and pedophilia and there are already laws in place against sexual abuse of children.



"The large majority of sexual perpetrators appear to be males"



I don’t see how this is relevant as the majority of all sexual assaults (94% of rapes) are committed by men [2.1]. In fact, it is supports an argument not to criminalize homosexuality When it is very unlikely for a woman to engage in sexual behavior with a minor.



-There is no reliable evidence to support Pro’s claims.



Pro spends a lot of time countering my sources in this section so I will and I’d refer you to now to [1.3]. All my research papers sited in this section are from peer reviewed journals summarized in the article.



"the reason child sexual abusers are successful at remaining undetected is because they do not fit a stereotype."



Pro Brings up a few few conspiratorial ideas with no evidence and still can’t connect this to male homosexuals.



- Pros Sources



Steven Baldwin admits that his position on homosexuality is a faith based position [1.6]. I did find the article and it is not peer reviewed in a scientific journal so the results are invalid.



The Regent University Code of conduct states, “Sexual Conduct Regent University fully accepts the teachings of the traditional Biblical view with regard to the goodness of our sexuality….Sexual misconduct that is prohibited includes disorderly conduct or lewd, indecent, or obscene conduct… homosexual conduct or any other conduct that violates Biblical standards [2.2].” So yes, the verses condemning homosexuality are 100% relevant because they made their decision before any evidence came in. that is the opposite of a scientific approach. It is against their school code of conduct to engage in homosexual activity and you can be expelled as a result.


-This debate hinges on active adult homosexuals engaged in increased pedophilia.


Pro asserts that male pedophiles are also attracted to adult men without providing a link to the source. If I can’t view the sources they do not qualify as evidence. This does not conflict with the established scientific understanding that homosexual men do not engage in pedophilia.


He reports findings that convicted pedophiles often identify as homosexual without a source link. There can be a lot of confusion between the scientific term ‘homosexual pedophilia’ which is a man attracted to male children and homosexuals who are attracted to adult men and many other issues can come up. Saying you are gay, while denigrated by some, is a lot more comfortable to say than to admit you only are attracted to children. Admitting that would put you in serious danger. The only worse position would be to be locked up as a cop (I’m talking to you sheriff Joe Arpaio). You mine as when survey them to see if they are guilty, 99.9% innocent!


-Irrelevant Arguments


Without a link between adult heterosexual relationships these arguments are completely irrelevant:


Pro quotes the department of justice reporting that underage male victims of molestation are apprehensive or unlikely to report sexual abuse and indicates that the percentage of victims may be even when comparing male and female victims. Without a source link to confirm this is just hearsay. Pro concedes available statistics report an imbalance in male pedophiles that prefer underage girls anywhere from 67-70%.



A CEO losing his job due to a prejudice (justified or not) has nothing to do with the resolution. The same is true of four books marketed to pedophiles and your discomfort with multiple sexual relationships and unwholesome behavior.


-


I’ll elaborate on my counter position but Pro has simply not met his burden of proof. If everything he says is true we would automatically make it illegal to be born with a specific sexual orientation. You would make it illegal for millions of Americans, who have committed no crime, to express the natural core relationship of their family robbing them of a most basic human need.



[2.1] https://thehathorlegacy.com...


[2.2] http://www.regent.edu...


[2.3] http://lib.dr.iastate.edu...


Debate Round No. 3
Concentratingape

Pro

There is no absolutely connection between the homosexual orientation and pedophilia and there are already laws in place against sexual abuse of children."

I provided several studies proving that there is. If my opponent failed to see a connection there I can only chalk it up to sloppiness. As for the claim that "He reports findings that convicted pedophiles often identify as homosexual without a source link" that claim is false. I did provide you with the study and was even so kind so as to write out the pertinent page you should look at. So, I resent that implication of yours. The publication is out there in the public domain. Here I refer you yet again to the study in question. W. D. Erickson, "Behavior Patterns of Child Molesters," Archives of Sexual Behavior 17 (1988): 83.

I also provided a study demonstrating how homosexual pedophiles shown slides of nude males of all ages ""As a group, the child molesters responded with moderate sexual arousal"to the nude males of all ages" which I sourced and provided the relevant page for.

"the reason child sexual abusers are successful at remaining undetected is because they do not fit a stereotype."

This is not a "conspiratorial" idea but presented by, as I stated before, by the Journal of Offender Therapy and Comparative Criminology. There is a search engine where you can look for the phrases and find the studies, but here it is in any case.

Krisin A. Danni, et al., "An Analysis of Predicators of Child Sex Offender Types Using Presentence Investigation Reports," International Journal of Offender Therapy and Comparative Criminology 44 (2000): 491

What this suggests is that they display various kinds of sexual preferences and behaviors are exhibited and and so is not as easy to categorize in narrow definition as my opponent thinks it is.

"Without a source link to confirm this is just hearsay"

I did provide you with two studies, namely Groth, 1978; O"Brien,1980. If you can't find the studies despite the fact that the name and years are cited, than you shouldn't be debating me.

The point of this is to show that there are more boys victims of sexual abuse out to the point where it might be comparable to that of girls. In that case, the problem with homosexuals hovering over our boys is even more problematic. Add the fact that male homosexuals only constitute between 1-2% and then the rate of sexual abuse becomes even more grossly disproportionate than it already is.

I've provided you with so much evidence thus far, neither debunked nor refuted. Instead my opponent has, very unfortunately, been very sloppy and not taken the time to look through the evidence.

My opponent continues to cite religion as a big part of it all, notwithstanding the fact that religion is not even mentioned in any of the research I've cited. Only proves my opponent has not done his research and tries to pivot to this red herring that is completely irrelevant and has no place in this debate.

I can concede that my arguments have focused on male-on-male homosexuality and sexual abuse and no doubt the male homosexual population seem to be more problematic from a societal point of view than their female counterparts. I don't have enough time to dig up enough dirt on the female homosexuals so if it's possible, for the purpose of this debate, I'll retroactively change the thesis of the debate to solely focus on male homosexuals. The studies have thus far only touched upon the males so there won't be any changes in the debate (or lack thereof) between us. My opponent will undoubtedly make a big fuss out of this and claim because he has nothing else to go on.

Also, I did almost forget, the books I cited are listed on Gay Men's Press fiction bestseller list. Yes, the disgusting books glorifying inter-generational sex are books targeted for homosexuals. Here's the sodomite website with the books in question. www.gmppubs.co.uk/cgi-bin/web_store/web_store.cgi

I don't have more time than this but I thin there's plenty to go on and my opponent has failed to demonstrate how male homosexuals do not live a dangerous lifestyle not only to themselves but also impacting the community and in particular children negatively. I'll close with that,
Dujec

Con

For simplicity I’ll define an androphile as someone with a predominant attraction to physically adult males and gynophile as someone with a predominant attraction to physically adult females.

A. There is no absolutely connection between the homosexual orientation and pedophilia and there are already laws in place against sexual abuse of children.


The American Psychological Association, American Academy of Child Psychiatrists and Child Welfare League of America have agreed unequivocally that there is no connection between homosexuality and child molestation [4.7].


“According to the American Psychological Association, children are not more likely to be molested by LGBT parents or their LGBT friends or acquaintances. Gregory Herek, a professor at the University of California, Davis, who is one of the nation's leading researchers on prejudice against sexual minorities, reviewed a series of studies and found no evidence that gay men molest children at higher rates than heterosexual men [4.11][1.3].”

To quote the one of his studies in 1982 research article, “It is meaningless to speak of fixated (the majority of pedophiles) molesters in these terms – as heterosexual or homosexuals - they are attracted to children, not to men or women [4.7].” “There were no examples of regression (molesters who have been male androphiles in the past) to child victims among peer-oriented, homosexual males. The possibility emerges that homosexuality and homosexual pedophilia may be mutually exclusive and that the adult heterosexual male constitutes a greater risk to the underage child than does the adult homosexual male [4.6].”

He continues, “Are homosexual adults in general sexually attracted to children and are preadolescent children at greater risk of molestation from homosexual adults than from heterosexual adults? There is no reason to believe so. The research to date all points to there being no significant relationship between a homosexual lifestyle and child molestation.”

Pro’s source interpretation is poor (particularly in round 3) and makes the exact same errors as an FRC article on the topic.


Since academic research often not readily available online and time is limited it’s common to rely on contemporary articles that reference sourcing from relevant research as I have done. All of Con’s sourcing and information in round 3, right down to page references and rebuttals, are listed in this article from the Christian fundamentalist organization the FRC [4.3].

In spite of Pro’s protests that he has read the research papers directly, he sites the exact same information included in the article misrepresenting the findings of the referenced scientific papers as a whole. This is particularly confusing as a page that Pro references in round 3 sited in source 2) contains particularly damming information refuting the resolution (see below).


https://www.frc.org...


the Family Research Council has a mission statement that endorses faith based on a Christian world view, “Family Research Council's mission is to advance faith, family and freedom in public policy and the culture from a Christian worldview [3.3].” The President, Tony Perkins (see FRC Staff) is an ordained minister and supported the Uganda bill that advocated the death penalty for homosexual activity [3.4]. He also supports a biblical Christianity avidly [3.6] so, again, scriptures that condemn homosexuality as a sin make the organization biased and incapable of accurately interpreting scientific research on this topic.

The organization founder, James Dobson, is a renowned fundamentalist and sites the bible as an authority and absolute proof that homosexuality is immoral [3.2]. The organization is not only unqualified to interpret scientific journals while advocating faith based beliefs, it is biased toward a Christian world view.

The FRC is a biased source to interpret scientific papers with respect to male to male pedophilia or homosexuality.


Pro’s round 2 sourcing is and supporting facts are not relevant to the resolution.


Stephen Baldwin only does he not hold any scientific degrees or credentials that would qualify him to interpret the scientific articles or journals as he attempts to in his article, he also has a faith based believe that the word of God is accurate making him innately biased. Moreover, Pro has only provided baseless assertions from the article without providing any data or studies to back them up. If Pro can provide any information from the article that supports his case, I’ll elaborate

1), 2), 3), 4)

I’ve conceded gays get more action on average and so the STD rate is likely higher. That’s not illegal or relevant.


5) One book referenced without a link does not prove that prominent homosexual leaders support pedophilia and how does this support the resolution? The research concludes that these ideas are ignored.


Round 3: Pro makes the same errors that the very biased FRC article makes when referencing the exact same sourcing and page numbers.


1) The page number and information are cherry picked by the FRC article. This was a study of child sex offenders and simply concludes that pedophiles are more likely to be attracted to female children [4.8].

2) The quote and page number are in the FRC article. Contrary to what Pro has suggested, this study concludes that there is no difference between how male androphiles/gynofiles react sexually to children from their gender preference [4.9]. It includes a referenced study of 17 child sex offender studies that concluded that adult males who are erotically attracted to adult women are twenty times more likely to molest children than men who are predominantly, erotically attracted to adult men. This is from the same page that Pro sited as a source that female children are assaulted twice as often.

3) Pro’s rebuttal and and page numbers are given (see source [23]) in the FRC article.

He can provide no link to prove that these objections to the study are true or relevant. My source was submitted for peer reviewed by the scientific community and approved for publishing.

4) The reference is sourced in the FRC article but the page number is not referenced although is is available online [4.10]. Pro fails to mention it that male offenders of boys were in fact more attracted to male children in particular and did not differ significantly from the control group in their attraction to females of all ages (see the final section of the article). This is consistent with findings Pro’s source 2) above that concludes that heterosexuals are 20 times more likely to abuse children.

5) This is sited in the same biased article and the page reference is given. The article reference is not available online and it directly contradicts the findings that relied on measured sexual attraction to adult men/women to determine sexual orientation (Pro’s source 2) my source [1.3]: see the section referencing Freund et al., 1989 and the Groth 1978 study we both site).

The article has been criticized in it’s report that 86% of child sex criminals are gay or bisexual since it gave no details or data to explain the method to obtain this information. The personal report of criminals with regard to their crimes is notoriously unreliable [1.3].

(Groth 1978; O"Brien,1980): sited in FRC article along with the quote Pro provided.

The Groth study indicates that in the study of male pedophiles, “None of the men had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation [4.7][1.3] .”

F. Pro has not connected the legality issues with his claims.

Pro has provided no reason why homosexuality should be illegal. He has conceded that lesbian women have a virtually null risk of child molestation. He has conceded that the best possible scenario is that half of male pedophiles will be drawn to male children. If there were a connection between adult male androphiles and pedophilia (there isn’t) there already laws against pedophilia and they will be prosecuted under those laws. Sex with multiple partners is not illegal (even with an increased risk of STDs) and that is a separate issue for Gay and Straight Americans alike.

If all Pro’s claims are true (they are not). Millions of North Americans would receive legal penalties without committing anything considered a crime for heterosexuals. His assertion is in conflict with the fairly recent court decision to legalize same-sex marriage. Why should Homosexuality be illegal? Pro has no answer.

-

Pro’s arguments in no way lead to the conclusion that Homosexuality should be illegal and not only fails to attempt this but he cannot explain why the majority of homosexuals that do not fit his profile should be criminalized as well. He has Provided no proof for his most contentious claim that Males attracted to physically adult males are more likely to be pedophiles.

In fact, his sourced articles refute this claims. All his other objections are not illegal with respect to homosexuals and Pro has not provided a reason for this double standard.

[4.1] http://lib.dr.iastate.edu...

[4.2] http://www.dobsonlibrary.com...

[4.3] https://www.frc.org...

[4.4] http://www.rightwingwatch.org...

[4.5] http://www.joemygod.com...

[4.6] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

[4.7] http://www.wearemichigan.com...

[4.8] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

[4.9] https://www.jstor.org...

[4.10] http://www.academia.edu...

[4.11] https://www.splcenter.org...

Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
23 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Dujec 6 months ago
Dujec
I'd say the reliability of sources who are interpreting scientific articles is very important which is why I pushed the issue this round. If a source adamantly believed homosexuality is natural based on faith regardless of the evidence presented I would not trust them to accurately source, research or write papers on the topic. Looking forward to your response.
Posted by Dujec 6 months ago
Dujec
https://www.frc.org...

All right, I'll site it for you.
Posted by Concentratingape 6 months ago
Concentratingape
You referenced a study, I went on to look at the source and I consequently refuted your study. I don't give a rat's as* if the article from which you referenced your study is some lame-as* liberal/ultra-feminist/cis-gender-hate blog or whatever. If you reference and come with whatever claim about said study, I'm going to look at the study. I'm not interested in whether or not the article is from MSNBC, feminist frequency, Fox News or whichever site with some bias bent either way. It's an ad-homimen and not an argument.
Posted by Concentratingape 6 months ago
Concentratingape
True. I got the references from a paper and I went on to see if the references were in fact true which they are
Posted by Dujec 6 months ago
Dujec
I misspoke. I suspect the articles that site these research papers are religious and likely take the ideas out of context. There is no way to know without a link. I'm not going to spend hours of time just to access your sources and it would be hearsay if I responded that way because there would be no link to allow any voters to reference these 'sources.'

You got these journal references from somewhere and I'll bet it wasn't by paging through scientific journals, especially since the majority do not support your conclusions.
Posted by Concentratingape 6 months ago
Concentratingape
No the papers are not religious, you loser. I've provided you with the evidence you need and if you don't have university clearance or are too cheap to pay for a paper, then that's not my problem.
Posted by Dujec 6 months ago
Dujec
It's your responsibility to post a link not a text reference. If these are available in the public domain then you should not have trouble posting a link but the key words you provided often lead to paid sites. If you are using articles that reference research papers (I would suspect they are religious) then you should post those articles.

Your suggestion that homosexuality should be illegal just doesn't line up with the evidence you've provided even if it were true.
Posted by Dujec 6 months ago
Dujec
Posted with 7 minutes to go. I should have more time to elaborate next round.
Posted by Concentratingape 7 months ago
Concentratingape
I was not raised to view it as something aberrant or dysfunctional so I've been pretty neutral on the subject. But when I see gays out on a Friday night with the ball gag on and the whole Borat outfit two steps short of fornicatio no essentially, what the gays are doing is thrusting their filthy agenda into everyday society. The way the gay movement is associated and have strong links to NAMBLA is also very revealing.

Whether genetic or choice, I think still looking at it, however charitably, still looks like a dysfunction to me. If the gays really kept it to themselves without proselytising and really targeting children, just spreading diseases among their own kind, then I guess I wouldn't mind. But it's the gay thing that now has led people to talk more openly about pedophilia. The gay movement has argued for lowering the age of consent and other PC elements are working in concert to make pedophilia acceptable. That's why the argument that the acceptance of gay rights is a slipping slope and it will pave the way of other aberrant behaviour. In Denmark you already have animal brothels. I sh*t you not. Things we couldn't even dream before are happening before our very own eyes. Bestiality and incest are soon going to be more commonplace occurrences. We're already seeing pedophilia normalised.
Posted by Dujec 7 months ago
Dujec
I see this as orientation that in not harmful to individuals or society anymore than the heterosexual orientation.
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