Homosexuality is not Immoral
Second, the only argument against it is religious, mostly of the Christian religion, a religion that has no proof for the existence of the omnipotent figure mentioned in its Bible, other than the Bible itself.
"18:22 Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable. (Leviticus 18:22 NIV)"
"20:13 ""If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. (Leviticus 20:13 NIV)"
which is much more extreme of course.
Other than the Bible and other religious books/scriptures, there is no argument other than, "Because it it odd/gross."There is scientific proof as well that homosexuality, bisexuality, pansexuality, etc. are caused by genetics. If God is, in fact, real, he would not allow this to happen of course.
So what rational argument is there that homosexuality is immoral at all? Or, as the bible says, punishable by death?
(3) Thank you Pro, for the invitation to present a case that homosexuality is in fact immoral, not just in Kansas City, but in many places around the world such as in Saudi Arabia, Kenya or Russia.
This also is my first debate, so I'm in fact just experimenting.
I note that you identify yourself as a homosexual, and further that you argue that the only argument for a con view is religious, which I disagree with.
I myself do not condone religious thought and would never recommend it to anyone, even if they do consider themselves to be moral experts.
I better lay down some definitions of what I mean by the terms I use because I don't view "morality" as being controlled by religion, or even necessarily relevant to religion because I see religion as really being a user, not a definer of morality.
1. transgressing accepted moral rules; corrupt
2. sexually dissolute; profligate or promiscuous
1. Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character: moral scrutiny; a moral quandary.
2. Teaching or exhibiting goodness or correctness of character and behavior: a moral lesson.
Yes, the bible does in certain verses condemn people to death for gathering twigs on Sabbath days, consuming prawns with, or without tartar sauce, wearing garments of two different kinds of thread, eating yummy bacon, or even making bacon with the non complimentary gender. A particularly amusing example of the confusion caused by this irrational argument appeared long ago in "A letter to doctor Laura" (3). The church is no final arbiter of what is or is not moral, they try to direct the communities perception of what is and isn't to suit themselves.
However, as you may have noted, no where in any definition of what is immoral is religion directly, or even indirectly the originator.
Because of their attitude of absolute values, morals and qualities, they mistakenly believe that Jehovah, Allah or whoever have made shrimp eating immoral, but nothing could be further from the truth.
As you can see from the definitions of morality/immorality it is not the bible or other books that defines morality, it is community attitudes that define them. The practice of homosexuality has been part of mainstream societies in various countries over the ages and most certainly not immoral in them, which is not to say that I concede that homosexuality isn't immoral, but is dependant only upon the culture within which we refer.(4)
Argon forfeited this round.
Previously I have asserted that ones culture is what makes for morality or immorality, for instance if you were from the tribe of the white cannibals from the Orinoco you might consider it very moral to eat your enemies and very immoral not to eat your dead relatives and sexuality is certainly not immune from those social mores.
Religions such as Islam, Judaism and Christianity tend to reinforce and codify our cultures and ethos too.
We have an immutable system that cannot be argued against now. Why shouldn’t I put my old feller there? Because god says not to. God is not liable to be wrong, he is all knowing after all.
But cannot expressions of love be good, isn’t god all about love? As Pro has indicated god knows what god wants, and that is not filthy perversion from people under control of the one who wants to see you burned for eternity. God (via the bible) wants you to have angel wings and sing songs of his praise, he doesn’t want you to miss out on an eternity of singing “Gentle Jesus meek and mild….” Just because you wanted to enjoy a few short decades of perverted love. True love is going to church on Sunday and admiring the deity that made you the way that you are. If the bible is correct (and how can we assume that it isn’t when we cant even prove god doesn’t exist?) all you are being asked is not to succumb to sin and you are finding excuses NOT to do that one small request.
Are there rational reasons for not doing such a simple request by the god of the Christians? How about trying not to get killed? The Nazi’s being the god fearing puritans that they were (God is with us, on every soldier) sought out homosexuals to kill with every amount of fanaticism and cruelty that their god could muster, and he is one vicious mother when he gets going as the bible attests, mainstream bible belt America loves to hurt homosexuals too, god wills it as you can see from your references.
The sad story of Matthew Shepherd (1) who was sought out and tortured to death purely because he was a known ungodly homosexual, and since the bible tells what righteous Christians must surely do, they surely did it.
God hates evil, and god hates homosexuals, or to put it more prosaically “God hates f@gs” as the Late Reverend Fred Phelps (2) of Topeka preaches to a loud, smelly but enthusiastic bunch of his inbred relatives, everyone of them an enthusiastic god loving heterosexual, even the babies.
I wish to emphasise that culture controls morality, but your superstition, whatever it may be also emphasises its morality back into your culture in some sort of parasitic feedback. The dominant religion emphasises common values with the culture and uses culture to reinforce its own issues.
Argon forfeited this round.
In conclusion, I would like to sum up my point that immorality is a product of the values of the culture in which we walk, and we walk in a culture that values traditional family structures, Adam and Eve stuff, it works well, most of us feel no need for alternatives, probably because of biological imperatives inherent in us.
Thank you for reading.