The Instigator
Eccedustin
Pro (for)
Losing
22 Points
The Contender
Illegalcombatant
Con (against)
Winning
24 Points

Homosexuals and Heterosexuals should have equal rights

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/8/2010 Category: Politics
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 7,800 times Debate No: 13958
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (30)
Votes (8)

 

Eccedustin

Pro

My argument is that homosexuals and heterosexuals should both have equal rights in every area. Homosexuals should be able to adopt children as freely as heterosexuals, get married, engage in social activities, etc.

I support this argument with the stated facts that homosexuals are essentially the same as heterosexuals in every way, except for their sexual preferences. Heterosexuals have equal capacity for intelligence, morality, emotions, parenting, working, etc. Given the fact that they have equal capacity for everything that heterosexuals have, there is no rational reason to exclude them from the same liberties that heterosexuals enjoy.

I argue that any arguments that attempt to dismiss equal rights of homosexuals is inherently flawed.
Illegalcombatant

Con

Before we begin, just because some one argues a view, doesn't mean they believe it, eg: devils advocate http://en.wikipedia.org...'s_advocate

I thank Pro for instigating this debate.

Pro makes the claim that since homosexuals are the same as heterosexuals with the exception of sexual preference, they should have the same rights, for instance the right to adopt children.

Trouble is, this same argument works for pedophiles too.

Pedophiles are the same as heterosexuals except for sexual preference therefore they should have the same rights, for instance to adopt children.........

Now does Pro think pedophiles should have this child adoption right ? I am assuming No.

This shows the principle of equal rights regardless of sexuality as false, after all even Pro doesn't advocate equal rights regardless of sexuality.

I look forward to Pro response.
Debate Round No. 1
Eccedustin

Pro

Thanks for the response.

Con argues that my argument, homosexuals should have equal rights because they are essentially the same as heterosexuals, is an equivalent to the argument that pedophiles should also have the same rights. My response would be that it is a false comparison. Pedophiles are not equal to homosexuals or heterosexuals in the strict sense.

I should have clarified this previously, but as you know pedophiles can be ether homosexuals or heterosexuals as well. However, when I'm talking about homo/heterosexals I am talking about just homo/heterosexuals and excluding pedophiles.

That said, Pedophiles are not on the same level because they are attracted to children.
Illegalcombatant

Con

Pros' rebuttal is "That said, Pedophiles are not on the same level because they are attracted to children."

Why ? You have just single out pedophiles in your treat people the same regardless of sexuality principle. Also I am only referring to their sexual orientation not any actual sex acts.

Lets take another example............

What about if Brother and Sister want to get married or adopt ? Father daughter ? Does Pro support the equal treatment in these cases ? I doubt it.

Assuming Pro does not support equal treatment for the examples I gave, why doesn't this make Pro just as bigoted, pedophile phobic, incest phobic, denial of civil rights oppressor, just as much as the people that deny equal treatment to homosexuals ?

Pro has not justified why homosexuals should be treated the same as heterosexuals, while these other groups would continue to be discriminated against.

This puts Pros' justification for equal treatment of homosexuals on very shaky ground.
Debate Round No. 2
Eccedustin

Pro

Con, Yes. That is correct. Pedophiles are singled out because they are sexually attracted to "children". While homo/heterosexuals are attracted to other consenting adults. That is the difference. One act causes harm to the other party, while the other act (same sex marriage) causes no harm to anyone. This is not arbitrary distinction.

In the end, it also all comes down to which causes harm and which does not. Pedophiles cause harm, gay people do not.

If a brother and sister want to adopt, is this the same as a man and a man or a woman/woman? I don't think so. I haven't put too much thought into that, since it isn't an issue today.
Illegalcombatant

Con

Con says "If a brother and sister want to adopt, is this the same as a man and a man or a woman/woman? I don't think so. I haven't put too much thought into that, since it isn't an issue today."

Well you had better, cause If you advocated on principle that consenting adults should have the same rights, then this argument can be applied in this situation. Remember we are not just talking about the right of adoption, we are talking about ALL rights, like the right to consensual sex and getting married.

And lets not forget polo-gamy. Do they get all the same rights too ?

Once again, It seems this equality regardless of sexual orientation only applies to homosexuals for some reason.
Debate Round No. 3
Eccedustin

Pro

No. You are incorrect. The issue of whether a gay couple can adopt and whether brother and sister can adopt are two different issues. Totally distinct. My argument would not even apply to them. They are not inherently the same as a straight or gay couple since they are practicing incest.

If a brother and sister want to adopt a child, and are not "in a relationship" with each other, then I see no issue there.

BTW, I do think that 2 consenting adults should have the right to sex no matter the circumstances. As long as it hurts no one.

Should polygamists get the same rights? Yes.
Should they be able to adopt? Sure, Why not?
Illegalcombatant

Con

Pro says " They are not inherently the same as a straight or gay couple since they are practicing incest", why do you single out incest as morally wrong and not homosexuality ?

Pro says "BTW, I do think that 2 consenting adults should have the right to sex no matter the circumstances. As long as it hurts no one."

The incest couple are not hurting anyone, yet you condemned them.

Once again, Pro seems to be not arguing for equal rights for all, but special rights for homosexuals and not others like the incest couple.

Pro has not shown why homosexuals should get these rights while others should be excluded, as such the resolution that homosexuals should have equal rights to heterosexuals is negated.
Debate Round No. 4
Eccedustin

Pro

I don't think that incest is morally wrong as long as it is done among consensual adults. There are obviously biological dangers associated with incest, though.

I'm not condemning incest couples. I'm just saying that they aren't inherently the same as traditional straight or homosexual couples.

Moreover, even if there is no reason to outlaw incest couples from adopting children...I don't see how that is an argument against homosexual couples adopting children.

I think that it is a diversion tactic. We aren't talking about incest couples here. We are talking about gay couples. Even if incest couples deserve the same rights, it isn't relevant to the main argument that I am making :Gay couples deserve the same rights as straight couples.
Illegalcombatant

Con

Illegalcombatant forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
30 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by NickMasstas 6 years ago
NickMasstas
Yep, equal rights already exist. I've seen no government discriminate against any person because of their sexual orientation."
You can't be serious right? There's been elections on whether there should be gay marriage(as if that's really necessary), not to mention "don't ask don't tell" in the military. If that's not a target on any individual group of people (gays), then I suppose I don't know what discrimination is.
Posted by losedotexe 6 years ago
losedotexe
This is more of a question / observation, so don't blow me away for this.
But couldn't pedophilia be a disease because society has said it to be so? Not long in the distant past, and even some fringe groups more recently, homosexuality was a 'disease', one of which could be cured and suppressed.
Perhaps if society behaved differently, pedophilia wouldn't be damaging? This goes into age of consent, I suppose, when someone can be justifiably given the right to choose their own path, but is 18 really a decent age? Should it be higher, or lower? Or should it be made on an individual preference?
I don't know, it's idle speculation more than anything, but It's a curious concept, to me at least. Feedback, opinions, etc. are greatly appreciated :)
Posted by innomen 6 years ago
innomen
What makes it not a mental disorder versus pedophilia is the actual outcome. A homosexual relationship can be just as healthy and beneficial to both parties as a heterosexual relationship. A homosexual relationship can grow and develop in all areas of intimacy and spiritual connection and mature love as a heterosexual relationship and result in a long term happy monogamous union. This cannot be said of pedophilia or any other of the common "philias" that are used to compare to homosexual relationships.
Posted by gavin.ogden 6 years ago
gavin.ogden
Huh? Who ever said anything about standard beliefs? That may be your belief, but it certainly is not standard. I'm surprised by the sudden lack of a plausible argument by Mirza. You are trying to make a moral argument, and disguise it as a logical one. If we are going to have a conversation, fine, but let's not make up our own standards here.
Posted by Mirza 6 years ago
Mirza
You are arguing by deflecting the standard beliefs against homosexuality by saying that it is a sexual orientation, and to support that further you say that pedophilia is a mental disorder. If you walk with that logic, then homosexuality is also a mental disorder.
Posted by gavin.ogden 6 years ago
gavin.ogden
What kind of argument is, "you're being too secular"? Probably the only unimpressive argument I have seen from Mirza. I could say, you are not being secualr enough, but that would just as ludicrous.
Posted by m93samman 6 years ago
m93samman
Lwerd, your source says it is a disorder only because it causes harm. So, it is a disorder regardless of what the person "likes", it is just who is harmed. So, at the end of the day necrophilia becomes okay because no one is harmed.
Posted by Mirza 6 years ago
Mirza
You are welcome.
Posted by Danielle 6 years ago
Danielle
That's because everyone agrees you only wind up making yourself look even more ignorant in the process. So congratulations on making the wise decision to use your time more effectively.
Posted by Mirza 6 years ago
Mirza
Strangely enough, I will argue emotionally and say to you that I do not wish to expose more of your contradictory statements.

Float your boat.
8 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
EccedustinIllegalcombatantTied
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Reasons for voting decision: the definition of marriage makes con a winner, and the can't have kids thing helps him too.
Vote Placed by Rockylightning 5 years ago
Rockylightning
EccedustinIllegalcombatantTied
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Vote Placed by CarterKemmet 5 years ago
CarterKemmet
EccedustinIllegalcombatantTied
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Reasons for voting decision: I TOTALLY agreed with the pro, except the i beat the pro a few months back, so i had to vote for con to save face. suck it dustin...
Vote Placed by CoDFreak 5 years ago
CoDFreak
EccedustinIllegalcombatantTied
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Reasons for voting decision: I love squirrels.
Vote Placed by bozotheclown 5 years ago
bozotheclown
EccedustinIllegalcombatantTied
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Reasons for voting decision: THe whole idea of, "Gay couples can't have kids" gives the win to the con side. Plus, the definition of, "Marriage" flows to the con side today.
Vote Placed by EuphoricTurtle 6 years ago
EuphoricTurtle
EccedustinIllegalcombatantTied
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Vote Placed by KymberLayne 6 years ago
KymberLayne
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Vote Placed by Tidin 6 years ago
Tidin
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