The Instigator
BlackHomophobicAtheists
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Cobalt
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Homosexuals are delusional

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/6/2015 Category: Education
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 537 times Debate No: 82180
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (0)

 

BlackHomophobicAtheists

Pro

Round 1
Pro states claims
Con challenges pro's claims

Round 2
Pro disputes con's challenge from round 1
Con defends his or her challenge from round 1

Round 3
Conclusions

Rules
No new claims in rounds 2 and 3.

Argument

Delusion - a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact:

The following are delusions of LGBT people

1. Gays think they belong in the category with racial minorities.

In reality, gays belong in the category with sexual minorities. Gays become offended when someone compares them to other sexual minorities such as incest and bestiality. That's because the truth offends them. Gays are happy when they are grouped with racial minorities. That's because feeding their delusion satisfies them

Polygamists, incestuous people, pedophiles and gays experienced stigma and civil rights issues

Gays pretend that gays are the only sexual minority who experienced civil rights issues as an excuse to compare themselves with blacks. Gays don't even want anyone to mention other sexual minorities who had issues with civil rights

Polygamists, incestuous people, pedophiles, peoplw who have sex with animals and homosexuals are all defined by a special desire that prompts a specific sexual behavior

Regardless of the similarities of gays and other sexual minorities, gays refuse to group themselves with other sexual minorities

2. If a man thinks he's a woman even though he's clearly a man, gays will really believe he's really a woman and even address him as a woman.

If a man thinks he's a unicorn even though he's clearly a man, would anyone thinks he's a unicorn? Gay people are delusional.

3. Gay people think allowing gay marriage is" marriage equality" even though other types of marriages are not allowed. Not allowing polygamous marriage and incestuous marriage violates marriage equality. Equality by definition means equality for everyone involved, not just one particular group.

4. Gay people think homosexuality is just as significant as heterosexuality. Heterosexuality is the reason humans exist. Nothing can match that. Better yet, homosexuality is the reason why the HIV epidemic exist in america. Homosexuality is also the reason why syphilis wasn't eliminated in America. Homosexuality is not even close to being as significant as heterosexuality

5. Gay people think homophobia has to do with irrational fear.
First of all, homophobia is a misnomer. Not even one person has been diagnosed with homophobia using the basic diagnostic criteria for all phobias. Not even one person has ever ran from a gay just because the gay appeared. Not even one person has showed any kind of fear when gays are present. In reality, people are disgusted by gays, not afraid of them. Gays are offended by the truth. They hate the thought that people are simply disgusted by them. They are happy with the irrational fear explanation because it feeds their delusion

Study shows homophobia is rooted in disgust, not fear (olutanji et al 2001)

6. Gay people think homophobes are secretly gay. Most people in the 1950s were homophobes. That means gay people think 90% of the population were all gay in the 1950s. That means close to 100% were gay in the 1950's. This is clearly of delusion.

How do gays explain ex-homophobes who are heterosexual? According to gays, they were secretly gay when they were homophobic but they must have turned straight when they started like gays. This is clearly a delusion

Homophobia rooted and unwanted sexual advances (Angeles pilott 2011)

Unlike gay propaganda studies, this study actually Researched men and women

7. Gays think all gays were born gay.

The largest and most reliable study on twins shows homosexuality is caused by mostly unique reactions to enironmental factors including but not limited to experimentation, peer pressure, gay pornography, bad experiences with the opposite sex, sexual abuse, childhood abuse, childhood gender nonconformity, biological randomness,ect.

If you don't believe me, download the study for yourself

Neither Genes nor Choice:
Same-Sex Attraction Is Mostly a Unique Reaction to Environmental Factors
[Journal of Human Sexuality 3:81-114 (2011)]
by Neil E. Whitehead8
Cobalt

Con

I accept. My opponent is arguing that homosexuals are delusional. If I can show that at least one homosexual is not delusional, his argument fails. I am a homosexual, so I merely need to show that his list of delusions do not apply to me and I have won this debate.

I'll just run down the list of delusions the opponent presented.

1. Gays think they belong in the category with racial minorities.

I do not believe this or think this is true. A racial minority is based upon the color of one's skin, whereas a sexual minority is based upon being attracted to something that is not a human member of the opposite sex. Clearly these are two different things.

2. If a man thinks he's a woman ... gays will really believe he's a woman and address him as a woman.

My opponent is likely referring to transsexuals here, both post and pre-op. I do not believe that transsexuals are women. I do refer to them as women, but only out of a sign of respect. I do not believe that they are physically women or that they were born a woman. This would indeed be delusional, as it goes against basic known principles of biology.

3. Gay people think gay marriage is "marriage equality" even though other types of marriage are not allowed.

I do not believe that gay marriage is "marriage equality" in the literal sense. Literally, marriage equality would mean any thing that wanted to get married to anything or anyone else would be allowed.

I do believe in "marriage equality" in the cultural connotation that means "allowing homosexuals to get married just as heterosexuals marry". This, however, is simply a cultural connotation. I obviously do not believe allowing gays to get married satisfies the technical definition of marriage equality. That would be delusional.

4. Gay people think that homosexuality is as significant as heterosexuality.

I don't believe this is true. I think homosexuality is patently different than homosexuality, but I do not hold one to a higher esteem than the other. Heterosexuality and homosexuality have played very different roles in history, so to consider them as having equal significance is intellectually dishonest.

5. Gay people think homophobia has to do with irrational fear.

I do not believe this. I have met plenty of homophobic people and they never were fearful of me. Instead, their behavior tends to come across as more of a prejudice. Regardless, it is clear to me that homophobia has nothing to do with fear.

6. Gay people think homophobes are secretly gay.

Again, I don't believe this to be true in any sense. While some studies show that some homophobic people have suppressed homosexual tendencies, it would be foolish to think that this applies to every homophobic person, or even most of them.

7. Gays think all gays were born gay.

I don't believe this either. Personally, I don't think anyone is born straight or gay. Rather, sexuality is formed due to a variety of environmental factors that affect sexual development during puberty. It is foolish to say that anyone is born attracted to males or females, as babies do not yet have the sexual maturity needed to be sexually attracted to anything.

Conclusion

My opponent has claimed that homosexuals are delusional and provided various examples. I have presented a counterexample that clearly demonstrates at least one homosexual is not delusional, which defeats the opponent's argument.

If the opponent had instead argued that "most homosexuals are delusional", this debate might have gone differently. However, that is not the case.

Remember that my opponent said no new claims were to be presented in the next two rounds, so don't allow him to post more "delusions". He will need to somehow prove that one or more of these delusions still applies to me in order to win this debate.

Thanks for reading.
Debate Round No. 1
BlackHomophobicAtheists

Pro

1. Straw man fallacy.

I didn't say you did and I wasn't referring to all gays because I did not use the word "all"...

All - used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing.

2. Straw man fallacy.

I didn't say you did and I wasn't referring to all gays because I did not use the word "all"...

All -" used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing"

3. Straw man fallacy.

I didn't say you did and I wasn't referring to all gays because I did not use the word "all"...

All -" used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing"

4. Straw man fallacy.

I didn't say you did and I wasn't referring to all gays because I did not use the word "all"...

All -" used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing"

5. Straw man fallacy.

I didn't say you did and I wasn't referring to all gays because I did not use the word "all"...

All -" used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing"

6. Straw man fallacy.

I didn't say you did and I wasn't referring to all gays because I did not use the word "all"...

All -" used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing"

7. Straw man fallacy.

I didn't say you did and I wasn't referring to all gays because I did not use the word "all"...

All -" used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing"

Con's entire argument is a straw man fallacy.. the word "all" would not even exist if it wasn't necessary. Caon argued as if I used the word "all" in which I didn't
Cobalt

Con

The opponent argues that his resolution does not include "all", therefore we should not assume that he was referring to "all homosexuals". First, we're going to talk a little bit about statements of the nature "X are T". This will clarify that I am not in the wrong assuming that the opponent's statement implies the word "all". Then, for the voters who are not convinced by this, I will show why each of these delusions does not apply to a significant amount of gays.

The Form of the Statement

The opponent makes a statement in the form "X are T". We'll first look at similar statements using a different X and T:

1. Cows are herbivores.
2. Stars are hot.
3. Buses are long.
...

Each of these statements is making a claim about the their subject. For instance, the first statement is saying that cows have the attribute of being herbivores. To assume that this is only referring to a limited number of cows or some portion of cows is invalid, as the statement clearly refers to 'cows' as a group.

When making statements of this form, the implication is that the characteristic T applies that the group X. So when my opponent make the claim that homosexuals are delusional, he is saying that the characteristic of being delusional applies to the group "homosexuals". He is making an objective statement about a characteristic applying to an entire group. In order to falsify this statement, one merely has to show that at least one member of this group X does not have the characteristic T.

By showing that the opponent's delusions do not apply to myself, I have falsified the statement that homosexuals are delusional. Note: I have not falsified the statement "some homosexuals are delusional", just the former. Again, this is because 'homosexuals' refers to the group homosexuals -- which includes all homosexuals. Only by adding the term "some" can you refer to a portion of homosexuals.

Vote Con on this issue alone. The fact that the opponent may have 'intended' to use the word 'some' does not excuse the fact that he did not. Additionally, note that he referred to "gays" multiple times throughout his argument, never once saying "some gays". He had multiple opportunities to clarify that he was referring to a portion of the homosexual population, and not the whole as his statement of the form "X are T" directly implies. It's clear I was not using a straw man (arguing against a point the opponent didn't make), but rather I argued against what the opponent actually said, regardless of his intent.

The Delusions, Again

However, for the sake of being thorough, I'll cover the delusions again and show that either a significant portion of gays do not believe in the "delusional" things the opponent claims or that the opponent does not have enough evidence to justify his claims. Let's remember that Pro is making an objective statement, therefore the burden of proof rests upon his shoulders.

1. Category With Racial Minorities

First, the opponent presents no evidence that homosexuals believe this. The claim is pretty silly in the first place, which is why it demands evidence.

Since this is such a silly claim, it was impossible to find any meaningful evidence polling gays questioning whether they believe they are in the same category as a racial minority. For the sake of being thorough, though, this article [1] compares the category of racial minorities with the category of homosexuality. It demonstrates that there are many similarities between the two, implying that if a homosexual did compare his situation to that of race he would not be delusional, but rather a keen observer.

2. Gays think transsexuals are women

Another ludicrous claim with no evidence. The opponent is arguing that homosexuals actually believe male to female transsexuals are females. Again, hard to find evidence against a ludicrous claim.

However, logic tells us that homosexuals are more likely to be familiar with transexuality than the average person, since it is a part of the gay community. As a result, gay people are likely to understand what happens when someone changes sex. There is no significant portion of the gay population that believes that transsexual women are biologically women. The opponent will not be able to present any evidence supporting his claim.

3. Gay people think gay marriage is "marriage equality".

Just look at my argument last round and understand that other gays also recognize the difference between the literal definition of "marriage equality" and cultural definition of "marriage equality". Not to sound rude, but any person who understands the words 'marriage' and 'equality' can understand the technical definition of "marriage equality" and anyone with a cultural sense can understand the connotation of "marriage equality" as it applies to the gay rights movement.

As an example, searching for "marriage equality" on wikipedia links to same-sex marriage. It is a well understood cultural connotation. [2]

4. Significance of homosexuality

This claim has no evidence and doesn't make much logical sense anyway. "Significance", in the way you use it, is a highly opinionated term. For a homosexual to consider homosexuality a very significant thing is entirely an opinion. Additionally, this opinion is in no way delusions, as it is not surprising that a homosexual would consider his homosexuality to be significant.

The opponent basically uses this argument not to demonstrate any delusion, but instead to list negative circumstances regarding homosexuality itself.

5. Gay people think homophobia has to do with irrational fear.

Again, no evidence is provided that gays actually believe this. Looking at this logically, any homosexual who has encountered a homophobe knows that homophobia has nothing to do with fear, but rather a prejudice (or perhaps disgust, as you put it.) There a rarely, if ever, circumstances where a homosexual meets a homophobic person and the homophobe simply scurries away in fear. The experiences of gay men clues them in on the fact that homophobia =/= fear of gays.

6. Gay people think homophobes are secretly gay.

Once again, the opponent has offered no evidence supporting this claim. Looking at this logically, a gay person would be less likely to believe a homophobic person is gay as compared to a gay friendly heterosexual, as the homophobe expresses absolutely no interest in homosexuality, but instead often malice.

7. Gays think all gays were born gay.

Again, the opponent provided no evidence that gays believe this is true. While many gays actually do believe this, there is a significant portion of homosexuals who believe that homosexuality is the result of environmental factors. One can see here [3] that America is largely divided on the issue and there is no reason to assume that educated gays largely differ from this divide.

This portion of gays who are not sure of whether homosexuality is purely determined at birth is significant enough that the opponents statement does not apply.

Additionally, the twin study mentioned doesn't objectively prove that gays are not born that way. [See epigenetics.] There have been other studies showing results that seem to support the idea that homosexuality is an inborn trait. The differing and contradictory studies show that we do not yet have enough evidence to answer the question objectively, so beliefs on the matter are in a large part opinion.

And as I mentioned previously, having an opinion on an issue like this is not indicative of delusion. See the opponent's definition of delusion. Since it is not yet a fact that homosexuals aren't born gay, it is not delusional to believe they are.


Sources:

(1) - http://psychology.ucdavis.edu...

(2) - https://en.wikipedia.org...

(3) - http://www.pewresearch.org...


Debate Round No. 2
BlackHomophobicAtheists

Pro

1. Straw man fallacy.

I didn't say you did and I wasn't referring to all gays because I did not use the word "all"...

All - used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing.

2. Straw man fallacy.

I didn't say you did and I wasn't referring to all gays because I did not use the word "all"...

All -" used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing"

3. Straw man fallacy.

I didn't say you did and I wasn't referring to all gays because I did not use the word "all"...

All -" used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing"

4. Straw man fallacy.

I didn't say you did and I wasn't referring to all gays because I did not use the word "all"...

All -" used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing"

5. Straw man fallacy.

I didn't say you did and I wasn't referring to all gays because I did not use the word "all"...

All -" used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing"

6. Straw man fallacy.

I didn't say you did and I wasn't referring to all gays because I did not use the word "all"...

All -" used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing"

7. Straw man fallacy.

I didn't say you did and I wasn't referring to all gays because I did not use the word "all"...

All -" used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing"

Con's entire argument is a straw man fallacy.. the word "all" would not even exist if it wasn't necessary. Caon argued as if I used the word "all" in which I didn't
Cobalt

Con

My opponent reposted his Round 2 argument without addressing any of my arguments. Based upon his comment, this was likely an accident. However, seeing as you get the opportunity to review your argument before submitting, this is not grounds for a tie.

Based upon everything that has been said thus far, it is clear that I have shown my original Round 1 argument to be valid and additionally I have shown that even if it wasn't valid, I'd still win given my Round 2 content.

Vote Con.
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by BlackHomophobicAtheists 1 year ago
BlackHomophobicAtheists
That last post for roumd 3 was a mistake. Damn. I did not mean to post that same argument twice
Posted by Cobalt 1 year ago
Cobalt
Besides, the opponent clearly states underneath that point that gays belong in the category of 'sexual minorities', which is exactly what my response says.
Posted by Cobalt 1 year ago
Cobalt
I realize that. My argument coaxes him to explain exactly what that category is. As it stands, it's pretty unclear what 'category' he is referring to.
Posted by Konsto 1 year ago
Konsto
"1. Gays think they belong in the category with racial minorities.

I do not believe this or think this is true. A racial minority is based upon the color of one's skin, whereas a sexual minority is based upon being attracted to something that is not a human member of the opposite sex. Clearly these are two different things. "
CATEGORY.
CATEGORY.
He didn't say gays think they are racial minorities.
He said that gays think they are in the same category as them
Posted by BlackHomophobicAtheists 1 year ago
BlackHomophobicAtheists
Not true, I posted the same debate before we debated.
Posted by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
I know that but my last debate with him I showed that homosexuals are a minority and in this debate he's contesting this statement with an indirect personal attack on me.
Posted by Rosalie 1 year ago
Rosalie
it's not you lannan. this guy really just has no life.
Posted by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
I feel like this is a shot at me after what I said in the last debate.
Posted by BlackHomophobicAtheists 1 year ago
BlackHomophobicAtheists
Magicaintreal,
That study you are referring to is flawed

1. They didn't research men AND women
2. This study has been contradicted several times including by a study that investigated homophobic men and women showing that homophobia is rooted in unwanted sexual advances in which is the opposite of what your study shows.

"straight men perceive gay and bisexual men to direct unwanted sexual interest, but not lesbians or bisexual women; and straight women perceive lesbians, bisexual women and bisexual men to direct unwanted sexual interest, but not gay men; and that this perception strongly explained their sexual prejudices," Pirlott said.
Posted by MagicAintReal 1 year ago
MagicAintReal
"Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli."
No votes have been placed for this debate.