The Instigator
BlackHomophobicAtheists
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Rosalie
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Homosexuals were better off obeying homophobes from the 1970's to present in the USA

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/28/2015 Category: Education
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,198 times Debate No: 81708
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (24)
Votes (0)

 

BlackHomophobicAtheists

Pro

1. Homophobes opposed gay bath houses. The police began to shut down gay bath houses in which led to the Stonewall Riots. Gays were able to keep the gay bath houses open in the name of rights.

Gay bathhouses turned out to be HIV distribution centers in which profoundly contributed to one of the worst STD epidemics in human history.

2. During the early days of HIV when only a few gays were infected, homophobes warned gays to stop having gay sex. Gays refused to stop having gay sex and as a result, the HIV epidemic switched into a mass epidemic and ended up killing thousands of gays and innocent victims who were receiving blood donations. Hiv eventually spreaded to the heterosexual community by bisexuals.

3. During the gay marriage battle, homophobes warned gay supporters that gays are too promiscuous to get married. A study by CDC shows the majority of HIV infecrions are happening within serious, gay committed relationships in which obviously includes gay marriages. According to the study, gay marriage influences unsafe sex.. the problem is, it doesn't guarantee loyalty.. Therefore, gay marriage is increasing HIV infection among gay men among gay men.

In conclusion, if gays had have obeyed homophobes, they would have shut down the gay bath houses in which would have saved thousands of gay men's lives because many of them would have not contracted HIV. During the early stages of HIV, if gays had have obeyed homophobes, they would have stopped having gay sex so many gays who died from HIV in the 80's would be still alive. During the gay marriage battle, homophobes warned gay supporters that gays are too promiscuous to get married. Gay marriage increases the risk of contracting HIV because gay marriage influences unsafe sex but it does not guarantee loyalty.
Rosalie

Con

Alright, I was waiting for someone else to take this, but I guess it was meant for me!
No definitions were given, so I'll define some!
Homophobes- Medical Definition of HOMOPHOBIA. : irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals. (https://www.google.com...)

Gay Bathouses- Gay bathhouses, also known as gay saunas or steambaths, are commercial spaces for men to have sex with other men. (https://www.google.com...)

Homosexual-
(of a person) sexually attracted to people of one's own sex.

Heterosexual- Someone who is straight; Not gay.

Structure was not given, so I will construct this debate.

Round 1- Con rebuts Pro.
Round 2- Rebuttals
Round 3- Conclusion

Alright, now that we have the debate actually constructed, let us begin!

Pro believes that AIDS and HIV came from gay men. This is infect, false.

According to "The History of HIV & Aids" the disease did not come from humans.

1) "It is widely believed that HIV originated in Kinshasa, in the Democratic Republic of Congo around 1920 when HIV crossed species from chimpanzees to humans. Up until the 1980s, we do know how many people developed HIV or AIDS. HIV was unknown and transmission was not accompanied by noticeable signs or symptoms.

Here, we can see that Pro was already wrong in the beginning. Aids and HIV's did not start in gay men.

Pro begins to make a assumption based on his opinion on what gays SHOULD DO

"During the early days of HIV when only a few gays were infected, homophobes warned gays to stop having gay sex. Gays refused to stop having gay sex and as a result, the HIV epidemic switched into a mass epidemic and ended up killing thousands of gays and innocent victims who were receiving blood donations. Hiv eventually spreaded to the heterosexual community by bisexuals."

Pro has no proof of this. This is just a statement he made because its what he believes. Even if this were to be true, heterosexuals have been invested with STD's. So who are they to say people should stop having sex, if they themselves get STD's?

Pro then goes on to state that "During the gay marriage battle, homophobes warned gay supporters that gays are too promiscuous to get married. A study by CDC shows the majority of HIV infecrions are happening within serious, gay committed relationships in which obviously includes gay marriages. According to the study, gay marriage influences unsafe sex.. the problem is, it doesn't guarantee loyalty.. Therefore, gay marriage is increasing HIV infection among gay men among gay men"

Again, Pro has no proof. His statement is based on his personal belief of what gays should do.

He writes "A study by CDC shows the majority of HIV infecrions are happening within serious, gay committed relationships in which obviously includes gay marriages. According to the study, gay marriage influences unsafe sex.. the problem is, it doesn't guarantee loyalty.. Therefore, gay marriage is increasing HIV infection among gay men among gay men"

But the problem is, STD's happen within heterosexual couples as well. Heterosexuals are just as capable of getting a STD.

WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF GAYS WOULD LISTEN TO HOMOPHOBES

We call can agree the bullying is a major issue in the world. Many people get bullied because of their race, gender or their sexuality.

[2]

Joshua Franklin, an openly gay single father on the Big Island, told The Huffington Post that his two sons, 10-year-old Ala Stevens-Alameda and 9-year-old Poha Stevens-Alameda, have been discriminated against, called homophobic names and even assaulted by other students because of his sexual orientation.

His complaints to school administrators, he says, have fallen on deaf ears.

"Above all else, my children have been impacted and [the Department of Education] need[s] to pay for that," he told HuffPost in an email. "I am unsure if my children will ever feel safe again in the public school system and that is my biggest concern."


It does not matter the age, gay bashing will happen weather you are 10 or 68. Sadly, many kids commit suicide because they are afraid to be who they really are.

Don't believe me?

3) FOLSOM, Calif. — A 12-year-old middle-school student in Folsom, Cailf., committed suicide this week and friends and family say relentless anti-gay bullying was the cause because the boy was on the cheerleading squad last year. (http://www.lgbtqnation.com...)

4) Sergio Urrego, 16, took his own life last month after Catholic school administrators harassed the teenager by making his relationship with another young man public and accused him of sexual harassment.

There are too many to mention.

So, if gays were to listen to homophobes, more gays would be committing suicide. Sadly "Go kill yourself" is very common for people to say to gay people. So, fed up with the comments and harassment, sadly, these kids end up taking their own life because they are feared something will happen to them, or they will not be accepted by society.






Sources:

Debate Round No. 1
BlackHomophobicAtheists

Pro

"Homophobes- Medical Definition of HOMOPHOBIA. : irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals. (https://www.google.com......)"

First of all, homophobia is not recognized by the medical community. Not even one person has been diagnosed with homophobia using the basic diagnostic criteria for all phobias. That's because homophobia is not a 'phobia'. The word itself is misleading because the suffix is clearly misleading in which means homophobia is technically a misnomer.

Study shows homophobia is rooted in disgust NOT fear (Olantunji et AL 2001)

Another study shows homophobia is rooted in unwanted sexual advances (Angela Pirlott 2011)
What's interesting about this study is, unlike gay propaganda studies, this study researched homophobic men AND women, not just men.

"According to "The History of HIV & Aids" the disease did not come from humans"

This is a red herring fallacy.

First of all, the origin of HIV is irrelevant. There is a difference between the spread of HIV and the origin of HIV. Just like there's a difference between the origin of humans and the evolution of humans.

What hurts people is the spread of HIV..... the origin of HIV didn't kill people, the spreading of HIV did.

The question is, who triggered the HIV epidemic? GAYS

A timeline of Aids - aids.org
https://www.aids.gov...

QUOTES

1981

"five young, previously healthy, gay men in Los Angeles. All the men have other unusual infections as well, indicating that their immune systems are not working; two have already died by the time the report is published. This edition of the MMWR marks the first official reporting of what will become known as the AIDS epidemic"

"In addition to reports of cases of PCP and other opportunistic infections among gay men, CDC also receives reports of a cluster of cases of a rare, and unusually aggressive, cancer, Kaposi"s Sarcoma, among a group of gay men in New York and California"

"Gay mens health Crisis Exit Disclaimer, the first community-based AIDS service provider in the U.S., is founded in New York City"

Search on youtube
"NBC'S earliest reports on aids 1982"
Quote
"The lifestyle of homosexual men have triggered an epidemic of a rare disease

Homophobes trying to shut down gay bath houses, telling gays to stop having gay sex and the beginning HIV epidemic

YouTube search
"How we got gay" documentary

Here's a quote from the study. If you copy and paste this quote in google it, you should be able to find the CDC report

"The researchers noted that gay men account for nearly 70 percent of all new HIV/AIDS diagnoses among adolescents and young adults in the United States. A recent study by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention also found that the majority of new HIV infections occur within committed relationships"

http://health.usnews.com...

"But the problem is, STD's happen within heterosexual couples as well. Heterosexuals are just as capable of getting a STD"

Hiv is decreasing among heterosexuals but increasing alarmingly among gays

http://thewestsidestory.net...

In 2010, gays made up 72% of all new HIV infections

In 2013, gays made up 81% of all new HIV infections

http://www.cdc.gov...

In 2012, gays made up 84% of syphilis cases.

In 2013, gays made up 91% of syphilis cases

http://www.m.webmd.com...

Heterosexuals can marry but the HIV rates are decreasing. the CDC report clearly states, " the majority of new HIV infections occur within gay, committed, serious relationships"

Therefore, gay marriage increases hiv infections among gays because gay marriage are in fact committed serious relationships.

In conclusion,
The fact remains, if gays had have stopped having sex like homophobes suggested, it would have prevented the HIV epidemic because I proved that gays did in fact trigger the HIV epidemic.

The CDC report clearly states the majority of the new HIV infections are happening among gay, serious, committed relationships. Allowing gay marriage influences gay committed relationships and gay committed relationships increase HIV infections. If homosexuals had have obeyed homophobes, and never try to legalize gay marriage, it would have decreased HIV infections among gays.
Rosalie

Con

Pro really rebuts my points by expressing his own opinion, once again.

He does nothing about my arguemnt that STD's come from chimpanzee's. He only says this is faulty, yet provides no type of fact to show this is wrong.

Again, I never said gays are the ONLY type of people who carry STD's. I stated multiple times that hetrosexuals carry STD's as well. Yet, pro misunderstood that. He mearly is sugessting that I belive ONLY gays carry the disease.

Really, all i have to do is show statistics that hetrosexuals also carry STD's to win this round.

"Inconsistent findings on the relationship of sex partner concurrency to infection with HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) may result from differences in how sex partner concurrency is conceptualized. We examine the relationship of reciprocal sex partner concurrency (RSPC) to diagnosed STDs among heterosexuals. Heterosexually active adults (N = 717) were recruited for a cross-sectional study using respondent-driven sampling (RDS) from high-HIV-risk areas in New York City (NYC, 2006-2007) and interviewed about their sexual risk behaviors, number of sex partners, last sex partners, and STD diagnoses (prior 12 months). RSPC was when both the participant and her/his last sex partner had sex with other people during their sexual relationship. Odds ratios (OR), adjusted odds ratios (aOR), and 95 % confidence intervals (95%CI) were estimated by logistic regression. The sample was 52.4 % female, 74.3 % Black; median age was 40 years. RSPC was reported by 40.7 % and any STD diagnoses by 23.4 %. Any STDs was reported by 31.5 % of those reporting RSPC vs. 17.9 % of those who did not (OR = 2.11, 95%CI = 1.49-3.0). Any STDs was independently associated with RSPC (aOR = 1.54, 95%CI = 1.02-2.32), female gender (aOR = 2.15, 95%CI = 1.43-3.23), having more than three sex partners (aOR = 1.72, 95%CI = 1.13-2.63), and unprotected anal sex (aOR = 1.65, 95%CI = 1.12-2.42). Heterosexuals in high-HIV-risk neighborhoods in sexual partnerships that involve RSPC are at greater risk of STDs and, potentially, HIV. RSPC, in addition to sexual risk behaviors and the number of sex partners, may facilitate the heterosexual spread of HIV through STD cofactors and linkage into larger STD/HIV sexual transmission networks. "


We can imply that NOT only gays carry STD's, but as well as Hetrosexuals.

The debate is not about what sexual orientation carries STD's, but that they both do.

Even if gays were to listen to hetros and not have sex with the same gender, hetros would be the only people to carry STD's.
Debate Round No. 2
BlackHomophobicAtheists

Pro

"Pro really rebuts my points by expressing his own opinion, once again"

This is a blatant LIE

I clearly posted sources, links and MANY quotes from sources such as CDC

"He does nothing about my arguemnt that STD's come from chimpanzee's. He only says this is faulty, yet provides no type of fact to show this is wrong"

Con obviously doesn't understand fallacies. Con spewed a red herring fallacy.

Red herring - In argument, something designed to divert an opponent's attention from the central issue.

STD's coming from chimpanzee's is irrelevant to my claim because it doesn't change or challenge the fact that gays TRIGGERED the spread of hiv. Again, the origin of hiv is not the same as the spread of hiv. I posted quotes of the government hiv timeline, and sources such as 'how we got gay' documentary, the 'NBC earliest reports on aids 1982' and links and quotes from CDC.

"I stated multiple times that hetrosexuals carry STD's as well. Yet, pro misunderstood that. He mearly is sugessting that I belive ONLY gays carry the disease"

First of all, none of your claims changes the fact that gays triggered the spread of HIV and if they had have obeyed homophobes and stopped having gay sex, thousands of gay people's lives would have been spared. In the documentary, "how we got gay", gays admitted that they were told to stop having gay sex but they refused. As a result, 10,000 gays in one zip code in San Francisco died of aids. By the way, it was the gay community in San Francisco.

I posted links and quotes showing that even though gays are only 4% of the population, they make up around 70% of all HIV cases.

In conclusion,

I posted links proving gays triggered the spread of HIV, gays marriage increases HIV among gays, source (how we got gay) proving that gays were told to stop having gay sex but refuse to do so and as a result, thousands of gays ended up dying of AIDS. The Documentary 'How We Got gay' also showed that the Stonewall riots led to gay sexual liberty in which contributed to the HIV epidemic. Gay sexual liberty started when gays stood up against homophobes and stopped conforming. Gay sexual liberty led to the HIV epidemic. Again, if they had have conformed and obeyed homophobes, there would have never been gay sexual liberty in which led to the HIV epidemic in which devastated the gay community the most
Rosalie

Con

In conlusion, Pro literally changed the resolution in the debate. He was mearly arguing the gays were the only people who had STD's. I had simply proved otherwise.

Also, he ignored my WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF GAYS LISTEND TO HOMOPHOBES. He compleatly dropped my argument, which means he agrees that it's okay if homosexuals comitt suicide.

Vote Con ;)
Debate Round No. 3
24 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Dragon_of_Christ 1 year ago
Dragon_of_Christ
Sorry, only way to contact you Rosalie.

////////////

You are going to make me freak out.

I whined at you.

That is the only reason you gave me attention this time.

Whining is unacceptable.

If i whine just listen and don't do anything.

I don't want to be an annoyance.

And whining is annoying.

So if i whine don't give me attention!

It isn't what i want.

Why, why did you?

I don't understand.

Why?

My brain... ow....
Posted by Zexcoiler_Kingbolt 1 year ago
Zexcoiler_Kingbolt
It feels blatantly obvious that we're seeing Poe's Law in action right here, folks.

Or this is some Tea Party loving guy who'd vote for Huckabee or Trump in a heartbeat.

Not even my parents, who are Roman-Catholic conservative Mexicans, would say something as unfounded as that.

You are a disgrace to the term "atheist." As an actual atheist, I affirm that you aren't acting or being like one. Ugh. t(-_-
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: Peepette// Mod action: Removed<

6 points to Con (Conduct, Arguments, Sources). Reasons for voting decision: The Stonewall Inn article that Pro used as a reference in his early argument was taken out of context. This was a bar not a bathhouse. The Stonewall Inn event did occur in 1969 but had nothing to do with HIV because it was not yet discovered. The Stonewall affair was a stepping stone for the organization of gays for equal civic liberty. Civic liberties can not spread HIV. Furthermore, the object of the referenced article focused on the distribution of safe sex information within bathhouses, which was ignored by Pro. Pros premise that homosexuals should have been obedient to heterosexuals is a preposterous statement. To state so, implies one group is dominant or superior over the other. Pro cherry picked phrases and data from sources to make his point but used the information out of their intended context.

[*Reason for removal*] This vote all seems to be placed on the grounds of a single problematic source and accompanying argument. It's possible that Pro's entire argument was based on this (though a quick read shows that this isn't true), but even if it was, it only justifies the source and arguments point allocations. It doens't justify conduct. Even cherry-picking doesn't justify it. The voter has to explain how all of this contributed to the overall decision, and not just zero in on a single problematic source as the sole reason.
************************************************************************
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: Sciguy// Mod action: Removed<

6 points to Con (Conduct, Arguments, Sources). Reasons for voting decision: Pro had zero reliable sources in this debate whilst Con had better conduct, more convincing arguments and was using more reliable sources. The people should not vote for a man who uses biased article and plainly argues that his 'definition' is correct and the actual definition is wrong.

[*Reason for removal*] Merely restating the sources that you're allocating does not justify them. The voter has to explain why he's allocating these points, not merely state that he's allocating them. The only justification in here is for sources, and even that is just given as assertions without any explanation.
************************************************************************
Posted by Sciguy 1 year ago
Sciguy
Congrats Rosalie!
Posted by Sciguy 1 year ago
Sciguy
Again you assume that if no one votes for you that they are 'gay/homosexual' and that they know absolutely nothing. If you would like to be at the standpoint like that then allow me to make the same type of claims however with a race and culture such as yours. How do you feel when your demonized by the colour of your skin and not by the brain?!

http://sluthate.com...

This may be an exaggeration however you are no better in doing it! I am against Gay marriage but I shall not be engulfed in the darkness of the past and shall be showered in the light of the future and bask in it's light.

Again just to clarify I am NOT a Homosexual and neither are the voters and even if they were; who cares?
Posted by BlackHomophobicAtheists 1 year ago
BlackHomophobicAtheists
I meant, breastfeeding in a full term pregnancy naturally reduces breast cancer. Therefore, lesbians have to simulate heterosexual behavior just to reduce cancer risk.
Posted by BlackHomophobicAtheists 1 year ago
BlackHomophobicAtheists
Lesbians have a higher rate of cancer and bacterial vaginosis. Breastfeeding in a full term pregnancy decreases cancer risk.

How could con have more evidence when her so called sources are literally "google.com". Imagine if I had have put yahoo.com for my citations

voting for con is a joke. The more I know about gays, the more I hate them. Gays can't even vote fairly when your side is losing... gays are pathetic. If all heterosexuals knew what I know, all Heterosexuals would probaby hate gays
Posted by Sciguy 1 year ago
Sciguy
That is genius @lannan13 !
Posted by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
An aweseome argument you could've ran was that lesbians have a lower HIV rate than straights so by Pro's standards straights should listen to homosexuals.
No votes have been placed for this debate.