The Instigator
bigreyhorse
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
mmadderom
Con (against)
Winning
12 Points

Horse Slaughter

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/17/2008 Category: News
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 5,217 times Debate No: 1914
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (5)

 

bigreyhorse

Pro

Horse Slaughter in the U.S. was so much better for the horses, a quick pin through the brain and it was over.
Now, they're either starving to death in dirt lots because no one can feed them, or they're being shipped to Mexico or Canada.
mmadderom

Con

This is indeed a confusing opinion.

Which "horses" are you referring to? Are you referring to wild horses or domestically owned horses or both? At first I thought you meant just wild horses but then you made this comment: "Now, they're either starving to death in dirt lots because no one can feed them", this implies horses people own.

And if you could also clarify "slaughter". Am I to take it you mean you are in favor of the wholesale slaughter of horses because you fear what "might" happen to them otherwise?

Finally, if you could kindly explain why shipping horses to "Canada or Mexico" is somehow less humane than slaughtering them I'd greatly appreciate it.

As a horse owner and animal dealer I find the idea of slaughter as a first means of controlling the perceived problems I'm sure you will define to be abhorent. This should be an absolute last option.
Debate Round No. 1
bigreyhorse

Pro

Sorry this is my first time trying this thing out.

I'm talking domestic and wild I suppose, they're both being shipped to Mexico now because the plants in Texas and Illinois are shut down. A slaughter plant being shut down may sound good but when you put it the pieces together, its not. When theres nowhere to go after those plants are down they go to mexico and the mexico plant stabs them in their spine, head or anywhere they like, till death, and sometimes they're not even dead when they hang them from their hind legs to drain the blood from their bodies.
I don't know how inhumane the plant in canada is,I would hope not as bad, but they do travel a lot further for no good reason and starve, some to death in cramped trailers.
bigreyhorse
(to commenter)
I am pro slaughter thats why ^ its not because I hate horses, I'm a horse owner too.
mmadderom

Con

OK, now that I have a little firmer grasp on what you are arguing, let me clear something up here. The horse slaughter plants in Texas and Illinois weren't there to humanely destroy old, ill, or injured horses (acceptable practices). These plants were operated to provide horse meat to foreign countries and worked very much like a cattle slaughterhouse. These horses were typically bought at auctions and tens of thousands of young, healthy animals were being slaughtered to provide meat to Europe and Japan. This is a far cry different from humane euthanasia of terminally ill or injured animals.

Know that you know the purpose of those three, foreign owned, plants that were shut down, do you still oppose shutting them down?
Debate Round No. 2
bigreyhorse

Pro

Yes I know thats where they go,
it isn't to put them out of their misery.
Oh, I was wrong about a spike in the head here in U.S. maybe another one does it but this footage they hit them on the head a few times till they were unconscious, or maybe it had a spike in it, they called it a bolt gun, it looked like a air nailer.
I still am pro slaughter, I stick to what I say.
I've seen horses headed there (right at my hometown auctions) when those plants were open and its sad to see them go, they were healthy.
But I'm talking the conditions that they're going through NOW not before.
It's worse than before because they shut the American plants down. Those healthy horses are now going to Mexico to be slaughtered by being stabbed in the spine, head, and heart, like I said before, the problem is they're healthy when bought but when they arrive are half dead because of starvation from the extra long haul. I also just watched a video on how they drag the dying horses into the plant by their legs with cables attached, it had footage, awful.
I still believe that if the slaughter houses here were open the horses would at least die without having to be drug into a plant, U.S. plants are a little more humane, more so than Mexico. Sorry to say, but it would also cut back on our over population of horses and maybe a horse would be worth something.

bigreyhorse
mmadderom

Con

OK, I read two things here.

1) You support killing healthy horses for meat to be shipped overseas where horse meat is considered a delicacy, and you support this activity being conducted in the U.S. despite the fact that the meat can not be sold in this country.

2) You also oppose closing the plants because of a perceived over population of horses and how that affects the dollar value of your own horse(s)

Well, you certainly caught me off guard with those views while claiming to be a horse lover.

If slaughtering horses for export meat as a means of population control is acceptable, I can only assume you would support similar operations for dogs and cats as well. There are MUCH worse overpopulation problems with those two animals than there is for horses.

The fact that the end product that comes from horse slaughterhouses is not legal for sale in the United States, the production of the product likewise should not be legal.

Your argument that it's more humane to slaughter them here because of Government enforced standards and procedures is flawed as well. Using that reasoning, we should set up heroin processing plants to develop a product for export even though the product is illegal here. Why? Because with Government oversight, at least the people using the product would be getting what they paid for and not something cut with rat poison or other impurities.

Finally you negate your own argument of the humanity of shipping these animals to Mexico or Canada for slaughter as soon as you use population control as a reason for legalized slaughterhouses here. Obviously if ALL of the animals that were previously being processed in the U.S. were now instead shipped to other countries, the net population control would be the same.

While I don't doubt that *some* horses are shipped to other countries for processing, there is no evidence that the number is anywhere close to the more than 100,000/yr that were being slaughtered here. Ancillary crimes and shady businesses also were shut down along with the processing plants. Horse theft was a huge problem around and near these plants. With no where to quickly unload their stolen property the incidents of theft have greatly decreased. Additionally, unscrupulous breeders who were producing inferior animals as quickly as possible just to make a buck by selling to the plants no longer have an incentive to take shortcuts in their breeding practices.

In short, whatever merit these processing plants may have had (none in my view) was negated by the surrounding practices, illegal ventures, and shady dealings that surrounded these operations which were producing a product illegal to sell in this country.
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by bigreyhorse 9 years ago
bigreyhorse
"Is nothing else debatable until it ends?"

ditto.
Posted by bigreyhorse 9 years ago
bigreyhorse
Why are you posting about war in a horse slaughter debate?
Posted by mmadderom 9 years ago
mmadderom
"Why is horse disposal an issue when we have a war going on?"

Why is not any issue that people care about worthless with "a war going on"? Does the war consume your every thought every second of every day? Is nothing else debatable until it ends?
Posted by Mikegj1077 9 years ago
Mikegj1077
Why is horse disposal an issue when we have a war going on? How about the horse in war? A horse is a great animal. It will cart you into battle, take a bullet for you, then you can eat'em when they die.
Posted by bigreyhorse 9 years ago
bigreyhorse
Yes they were perfectly healthy,
but nobody would buy them, if they didn't get slaughtered they'd get involved in the "sport" of horse tripping, unfortunately it's become more popular since the slaughter plants have been closed. What horses don't go to slaughter to mexico and canada, get sold to charros for tripping, and whats left simply get shot in the head.
This article explains about horse tripping : http://query.nytimes.com...

Closing those plants have had a pretty bad effect on the welfare of the horses. I think they shouldn't of closed them but made more rules about how the horses were treated.

bigreyhorse
Posted by mmadderom 9 years ago
mmadderom
Yes, mariahsaywhaaa, they were largely perfectly healthy animals processed solely for meat to ship overseas.
Posted by mariahsaywhaaa 9 years ago
mariahsaywhaaa
so the only reason horses went to these plants
was for meat?! are they like perfectly healthy
horses or something?!
Posted by bigreyhorse 9 years ago
bigreyhorse
Sure I benefit from slaughter,
I'm 16 yrs old. Heck I can't even drive yet.
I was just reading this article and thought it was pretty darn good.
http://www.nytimes.com...
As for my avatar and name, yes I have horses, 12 of them, miniatures, a Spotted Saddle horse, Quarter Horses, Paints, a pony and a Belgian, you'd just have to see what effects closing these plants had on the horses and the horse world.

You made some good points in your debate and you're a good debater, although I believe that most horse people would disagree.

bigreyhorse
Posted by NragedX312 9 years ago
NragedX312
wow, my first question to greyhorse is what effect did the closing of those plants have on you? Im sencing a underline reason...i.e you worked there or somehow made a income off there exestince.AS with me being a meat eater, i feel that if those areas crave horse meat mabye they should raise there own. I know a cow is a animal to, and yes i consume there meat but the thought of consuming mr ed kinda makes me queezy. A horse has a stigma in my mind of a relaxing ride thru the country and things of that nature, I just cant grasp the thought of consuming them, and i agree with the comment on your avatar being conf. that would be like me having a dairy cow picture while debating which is better the whopper or the big mac??
Posted by mmadderom 9 years ago
mmadderom
I'd suggest that if quality horses are being sold in your area for $150 it would quite lucrative to buy all you can then bring them down to Kentucky and Tennessee to re-sell where you get nearly 10 times as much.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by mariahsaywhaaa 9 years ago
mariahsaywhaaa
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Vote Placed by Cobjob 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Smarticles 9 years ago
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