The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
The Contender
Antitor
Con (against)

How can anyone ignore all of the EXCUSES believers require?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/14/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 7 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 188 times Debate No: 105833
Debate Rounds (5)
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backwardseden

Pro

Taken from http://howgodworks.com...;
Have you ever thought about how many excuses and rationalizations believers have to come up with to explain their beliefs? Here is a simple example of the problem:

Someone: "Why won"t the resurrected Jesus appear to me?"

Christian: "Because that would take away faith."

Someone: "But the Bible says that Jesus appeared to hundreds of people. Obviously it doesn"t take away faith."

Christian: "Jesus doesn"t need to appear to prove his resurrection."

Someone: "Yes he does " I will not believe in Jesus unless I see the evidence, just like Thomas and Paul and hundreds of other people in the Bible needed to see the evidence. I am no different from Paul."

Christian: "Too bad " you will suffer eternal, conscious torture in a lake of fire in hell as a result of your disbelief."

Someone: "You believe that God/Jesus is omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipresent and perfect. How can such a being withhold the evidence that any normal person would require, knowing that I will end up suffering eternal, conscious torture in a lake of fire in hell as a result? He is violating his definition to do that."

Christian: "Too bad " It is not God"s will for Jesus to appear now. You are going to hell."

Someone: "The Bible says that God/Jesus answers prayers. In John 14:14 Jesus says: "Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it."" In Matthew 17:20 Jesus says: "For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, "Move from here to there," and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you."" If nothing will be impossible for me, then why won"t the resurrected Jesus appear?"

Christian: "You take verses on prayer out of context. You view God as a cosmic genie who has to answer prayers."

Someone: "But it says right there, plain as day, that nothing will be impossible for me. How am I taking it out of context?"

Christian: "Jesus did say that he answers prayer, but I have no idea how many times I have to tell you that God answers prayers that align with His will."

Someone: "But if God only answers prayers that align with his will, then what Jesus said is wrong. What Jesus should have said, if Jesus is perfect and the Bible is infallible, is "nothing will be impossible to you, as long as it is God"s will already, and as long as it is actually possible." You have just proven that Jesus is imperfect and the Bible contains a flaw."

Christian: "No I have not, because""

Any normal, rational person can see the problem here. All of these excuses and rationalizations make no sense. They are so convoluted that believers end up violating other parts of their beliefs, which they then have to patch over, but that creates other problems" A believer"s brain is a mess of tangles and doublethink as a result. And that tells us that what believers believe is not true.

Everything in our universe tells us that God is imaginary. There is no indication that there is anything supernatural happening in our universe, and no reason to suspect that there should be.

But believers attempt to overlay our universe with a number of supernatural properties based on their beliefs. The beliefs include:

Whenever in () its me backwardseden saying something
* God and Jesus are real (HA HA TEE TEE now go ahead and prove it because NO ONE ELSE HAS)
* But all of the other gods humans have come up with are imaginary
* The Bible is the word of God (the god of the bible would not use text as a form of communication, the worst form of communication possible)
* The Bible is infallible (HA HA TEE HEE)
* The Bible is the source for human morality and ethics (HA HA TEE HEE in no way can this possibly be true because if so then the entire human race is in a world of despair)
* God is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent, perfect, etc.(prove it)
* God created the universe, the earth, all species on earth and Adam and Eve (prove it)
* Macro-evolution never happens (prove it)
* The earth is approximately 6,000 years old. (HA HA TEE HEE)
* Noah"s flood happened 4,300 years ago. (HA HA TEE HEE)
* God created all human languages and scattered people a hundred years after the flood. (prove it)
* Jesus is God"s son, born of a virgin. (prove it)
* Jesus performed many miracles on earth. (jesus wasn't even the messiah)
* Jesus was crucified and died (there's no proof jesus even existed)
* Jesus came back to life three days after dying (prove it)
* Jesus proved that he is resurrected by appearing to hundreds of people (HA HA TEE HEE) (prove it)
* Jesus" resurrection proves that Jesus is God (nope)
* God needs 10% of everyone"s income as a tithe (HA HA TEE HEE)
* God does answer prayers (HA HA TEE HEE) (nope nobody can prove god exists)
* God does have personal relationships with people ((HA HA TEE HEE) (nope nothing like that is mentioned in the bible)
* Heaven and Hell are real places (HA HA TEE HEE) (prove iit)
* People have souls which are sorted into either heaven or hell after death (prove iit)
* All humans, even infants and small children, are sinful and deserve eternal, conscious torment in hell (prove iit)
* But by believing in Jesus humans get sorted into heaven, which is super-wonderful, and everyone else goes to hell for their eternal, conscious torment in a lake of fire. (prove iit and what MORON would want to?)
And so on"

The problem with all of these beliefs is that believers are constantly having to make myriad excuses and rationalizations to justify them, and many of the excuses and rationalizations are quite convoluted. Even worse, some of these beliefs directly oppose mainline scientific thought or are provably impossible. Others are morally obscene in their ramifications. Many are internally inconsistent.

Let me give you an example. Let"s say someone asks a question like this:

Someone: "How can God, who is defined as an omnibenevolent, omniscient, perfect being, create hell, which, as an eternal, conscious place of torment in a lake of fire, is absolutely evil? God would have to be an evil being to do this."

A rational person would answer: "God is imaginary and hell does not exist."

That is an incredibly simple, straightforward answer based on the real universe that we inhabit. Now look at how a Christian handles the same question:

Someone: "How can God, who is defined as an omnibenevolent, omniscient, perfect being, create hell, which, as an eternal, conscious place of torment in a lake of fire, is absolutely evil? God would have to be an evil being to do this."

Christian: "We sin because we are sinners, not the other way around. Sin is like a spiritual genetic defect. Babies may not have sinned yet, but they have that genetic defect. Every human being deserves to be in Hell. The reason that Hell seems so evil is because you don"t see just how atrocious and heinous sin is."

Someone: "Didn"t God create human beings? Why create them that way if he then has to create hell as this place of absolute evil?"

Christian: "God has to punish evil because He is holy, perfect, and just."

Someone: "But God created everything. Why create evil?"

Christian: "God did not create evil. Adam and Eve created evil when they ate the forbidden fruit."

Someone: "Why would someone put a forbidden fruit in a garden? And have you ever read Genesis 1:29-30?"

Christian: [I have no idea how anyone can rationalize this]

Someone: "If that is the case, why create earth at all? Why not just create heaven, and install every human in heaven immediately."

Christian: [I have no idea how anyone could rationalize this]

Someone "If that is the case, then why create humans at all, if you omnisciently know that you will have to create this absolutely evil place and send billions of people there? Isn"t God perfect and omniscient? Why does something perfect and omniscient need to create anything?"

Christian: [I have no idea how anyone could rationalize this]

Someone: "If that is the case, why didn"t God create Jesus as one of his first acts and forgive everyone immediately, and then let Jesus appear to everyone so they believe in him? Then no one goes to hell."

Christian: [I have no idea how anyone could rationalize this]

Someone: "If that is the case, why doesn"t God come down and set up schools to teach people how he wants them to behave? Or why doesn"t God get inside people"s heads and yell at them when they are about to do something wrong? Or anything else, rather than the absolute evil of hell?"

Christian: [I assume a Christian would say, "That"s why God wrote the Bible."]

Someone: "But when we read the Bible, many parts of it are insane. Like Deuteronomy 22:28-29, which says: "28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives." Only someone who hates women can say that. This verse equates women to property. It violates women"s right to autonomy. It validates rape rather than punishing it. It allows men to marry women without the women"s consent. Etc. This is evil."

Christian: [I have no idea how anyone could rationalize this]

And so on. The big problem believers face here is that an all-good being cannot also create a place of absolute evil. No matter how you want to rationalize it, either God is evil or hell is impossible. Again it tells us that what believers believe is not true. All of the contradictions make their beliefs impossible.

Why would anyone want to believe these things? Why, for example, would anyone want to believe in a being who created a place of absolute evil called hell?

The thing that many believers never realize is that they do not need to believe these things. None of these beliefs are true, and therefore it is possible to walk away from them anytime you choose to do so.

Have you ever considered turning your back on all of these irrational beliefs? Have you ever considered seeing our world and our universe as it really is? If so, the book How God Works can be a valuable resource for you.
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Debate Round No. 5
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by backwardseden 7 months ago
backwardseden
@What50 - Exactly. The article delivered examples. That's all. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Posted by TheRealBatman117 7 months ago
TheRealBatman117
You piss off! Your exactly like Doubting Thomas!
Posted by What50 7 months ago
What50
Just because one person even said this dialogue doesn't mean it apply to every Christian seems like a strawman to me.
Posted by backwardseden 7 months ago
backwardseden
@Raumulus - Wow. Absolutely pathetic. Its EXAMPLES of how christians both talk and think. And perhaps if you would be around a few christians who are OLDER than you and talk a little bit about god, the bible and religion as I have and do, then you'd know this. But you in only being 18 cannot possibly have anywhere near the experience that the author of the article has, nor myself. Oh and duh it IS ABSOLUTE christian theology. And for you to NOT know that it simply means that you do not know all that much about christianity, your god, your jesus, your bible, and your religion. Period. Now open your bible and actually read the damn thing in which case YOUR god would NEVER be stupid enough to communicate in text form to begin with, the worst form of communication possible. So don't actually pretend that you know something about nothing. Got it?
Posted by Raumulus 7 months ago
Raumulus
This is the most retarded dialogue I've ever read! Even if some people are operating on this level, it's a bit unbelievable that this is the best that Christian theology has to offer. Just a bad straw man if you ask me.
Posted by Throwback 7 months ago
Throwback
The first (and only) person to point out to me, and that in a debate, that men have a g spot and it's in the arse. Sounds like the voice of experience.
Posted by Throwback 7 months ago
Throwback
Backside eden
Posted by backwardseden 7 months ago
backwardseden
Followerofhemmeroids - Didn't read it. There's nothing you have to say that is truthful or real. Bye.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 7 months ago
FollowerofChrist1955
How LONG do you think he will keep pissing in the wind BEFORE he realizes .... it ain"t Raining?
Hehehe
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 7 months ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Hahahaha;
And STILL, it is Backwardseden who REQUIRES EVEYTHING not God.

Being him ro ME!
Prove him to ME!
Make him do something for ME!
Oh it"s not time? Who cares MAKE him come to ME!
Otherwise I "m going to Hell .... that will show God!
Then He won"t be loving and merciful because He didn"t do what I WANTED TO SAVE ME!

Hahahahahaha

Enjoy your time in Hell, emperor (imbecile) Backwardseden ..... they should add noob to stupid .. it fits him!
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