The Instigator
Con (against)
0 Points
The Contender
Pro (for)
0 Points

How did God come into existence?

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/7/2016 Category: Science
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 577 times Debate No: 93437
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (0)




Here's a question? How did God come into existence? I have chosen Con.

Pro will explain how God came into existence.
Con will attempt to argue against Pro's argument.

By God I mean a supreme being that created the world. I'm referring to how would a supreme being come into existence or be born as opposed to how would the idea of God first come into the human consciousness.

Thanks for the debate, feel free to make an argument on the first round.


God did not come into existance. This concept has several different flavors.

At some point there must be a first variable. We call this a singularity. Otherwise we get a "regress of infinite causality".

Parmenides is accredited for the statement "nothing comes from nothing".


My proposition-

I hold to the theory that time is meaningless white noise to God. We try to construct God based on our reality which is a farse of logic, if He is our reality's creator. It's the equivalent of the "Sims" trying to explain their creator using their reality because that is how they exist and how they consist. That is not how their creator exists or consists.

I pose that there is only one tense. Not 'will be' or 'was', but 'is'. The ideas of past and future are simply electrical signals being interpreted by our brain to think in terms of past and future. It is simlly how we are programmed to think.

This concept is strongly eluded to in the Bible.

(John 8:58)
"Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am."

(Exodus 3:14)
God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

(2 Peter 3:8)
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

(Revelation 22:13)
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

(Jeremiah 1:5)
I chose you before I formed you in the womb; I set you apart before you were born.


The movie "Intersteller" depicts a "quantum connection". In this scene, "they are not bound by time or space" but have access to infinite time and space. Every scene of Merv's life is embedded into a "quantum library" of sorts. Here is this scene from youtube as a reference.


While exploring"the mathematics of string theory,"Theoretical Physicist James Gates and his researcher discovered something rather interesting buried deep"within the mathematical equations of super symmetry.

They found computer code.

And it isn"t just random 1"s and 0"s either. Bizarrely, the code they found is code which is used in computer browser operating system software.

Specifically; Block Linear Self Dual Error Correcting Code.

(Short video of James Gates interview.)


If we were designed and created into a medium such as the matrix, a simulation, God's own mind, or even something else all together, this demonstrates our creator:


2)Is not bound by our reality, nor time or space.


God needs no beginning because nothing begins in His reality. There just "is". He himself is reality. In one theory no one actually exists except for Him. We are all simply manifestations of His imagination.


In Einstein's "Special Relativity" space and time are relative. They depend on the motion of the observer who measures them.

Space and time can be seen as components of a single four-dimensional spacetime fabric.

Herman Minkowski-
"Henceforth space by itself, and time by itself, are doomed to fade away into mere shadows, and only a kind of union of the two will preserve an independent reality".

In Four-dimensional Minkowski spacetime we picture it in the form of a two-dimensional lightcone diagram, with the horizontal axes representing "space" (x) and the vertical axis "time" (ct).


People typically think of gravity as a "pulling force" that gains pulling force by the object's mass. This looks to be incorrect. Why?

There is a "fabric" to space. The bigger the object, the more it bends space and time. Picture a bowling ball dropped onto a blanket. The blanket would curve around the ball to support its weight. Now drop marbles onto the blanket. All of the marbles would gravitate towards the bowling ball, not because the bowling ball is magic, but because it has warped the blanket causing other objects to come towards it.

Time and space can be manipulated.

According to the theory of relativity, time runs slower with respect to Earth on planets whose gravitational pull is greater than that of Earth. So, in "Intersteller", Cooper landed on Miller's planet, which runs very close to Gargantua, a spinning black hole.

Nothing escapes the gravitational pull of a black hole, even light. So, a planet which is running dangerously close to a Black hole will also have gravitational pull way more than earth. So much more, that 45 minutes on that planet was equivalent to 23 years in Earth time.

When Cooper gets back, he is the same age and his daughter is an elderly woman.

Point? Time is meaningless to God because time is manipulatable even in our reality, much less His.
Debate Round No. 1


I read through your arguments, and honestly particularly in regards to string theory, all your arguments seem to make the answer even more complicated than the Multiverse theory, Big Bang Theory, Primordial Soup theory, and Evolution combined. Evolution in particular when explained correctly is simple stupid. Which, is exactly the point I wanted to make.

The argument of Pro God existence only makes matters absurdly complicated. Using Occam's Razor, its pretty clear which is the simpler solution to me. Thank you Pro, you made the point I was trying to make, good answers btw.


"The argument of Pro God existence only makes matters absurdly complicated."

The argument IS complicated. So is the real answer, no matter what it is. In this case, being a simple answer probably makes you a less qualified answer. The simpler answer is not neccessarily the correct answer. If a dog climbs up on a chair, hits the light switch with its tail turning off the lights, and someone says,"Hey, who turned out the lights?" a simpler answer would be "the light bulb burned out", but is that what happened? No. Occam's Razor, to me, is a fallacy of logic.


Multiverse theory-

Infinite universes. Infinite space. Infinite time. If one adheres to Darwinian Evolution as true, then in infinite space and time it has produced its highest possible being. This being in infinite space and time would always be coming into existance, is in existance, and has never not been in existance. If it mastered our reality, it would be a singularity standing alone as omnipotent immortal God.


The Big Bang Theory, primordial soup, and evolution are still preceded by infinite history and falls into a regress of infinite causality. A caused B caused C and infinitely. It's the equivalent of saying everyone has a mother but there is no first mother. It's a fallacy of philosophical logic.


Infinite Multiverse-

If one claims an infinite multiverse, they must explain how an infinit "thing" can even physically exist. I can. It's not physical.

In Simulation Theory we are all a part of a vast matrix or virtual reality simulation. If so, then we could explain an infinite reality by computer "program loops". A loop is a program used to repeat. Once its limit or boundry is met, it repeats. It is like the old Atari game "Pitfall". You go left or right forever and ever and ever...

The game "Diablo" advertised itself by "never play the same game twice". If you got to the end it randomly picked attributes and created a whole new world for you to play in. The reality of Diablo is endless because of program loops.


God didn't come into existance. Why? Because He is the only thing that actually exists. The rest of us to him are simply simulations, complex AI, etc. We ARE the Sims.
Debate Round No. 2



I. Light bulb burning out first dog flipping switch
II. Multiverse theory
III. The failings of metaphysical
IV. Sources

I. Light bulb burning out first dog flipping switch

In your example of the dog turning off the light switch versus the light bulb burning out. The light switch burning out is much more probable and happens much more often. Even so, we could then look at the evidence and find out that the light bulb was still working, thus eliminating that possibility. From there, working like a detective we could logically deduct the truth. We still may guess wrong in the end, but how much time will we reasonable spend figuring out how the light switch got turned off? We will probably guess that a human turned off the switch and leave the question be, since its so trivial.

A more serious matter, we would spend more time and effort finding the answers and evidence and therefore be much more likely to get the right answer.

II. Multiverse theory

There are many variants of the multiverse theory, not all of them involve infinite universes. [1]

III. The failings of metaphysical

I tried to follow your r2 argument and to be honest it made my head spin. Yet, after a bit of distance from the argument I realized these are all metaphysical arguments. Do we live within the matrix [2], a giant's toenail, are we are dream, part of another beings imaginations, and so forth. The movie Inception comes to mind. [3]

Why would my opponent make this argument? To make me feel dumb for not understanding string theory and some of the other ideas? What would be the advantage? The best answer is to confuse me and hope I simply give up and accept my opponent's religious ideology and/or this debate.

Yet, with any metaphysical argument there are some inherent flaws. You can't prove anything with metaphysics. Yes, there is very small chance we live in some sort of virtual reality. That we are indeed the Sim characters in a video game. [4] Yet, you can't prove it, or even get close to proving it, in fact you have no evidence at all.

The only advantage to metaphysics is that it does remind people that its impossible to have 100% certainty. You cannot 100% disprove that a unicorn exists nor 100% prove that humans exist. That's why most people rely upon logic, evidence, and science to at least some degree.

Yes, you can fantasize some incredibly complex notion, but is it correct? Just because an idea is so complex you cannot fully comprehend it, doesn't make it correct. Even if somehow we find solid evidence that God does exist, the questions of which God and which faith will still remain. Thank you for your time and effort.

IV. Sources



"There are many variants of the multiverse theory, not all of them involve infinite universes."

If you do not adhere to infinite multiverses, we need a logic assessment as to how millions or billions of multiverses can exist in a literal "nothing" without stealing my computer simulation theory which highly suggests intelligent design. If one suggests ID, we get an intelligent creator of some sort, thus satisfying "where did God come from. The occams razor answer: from outside of our reality. If time is simply an abstract part of our reality, it does not pertain to anything outside of our reality.

"A more serious matter, we would spend more time and effort finding the answers and evidence and therefore be much more likely to get the right answer."

Seeing the unsermountable chaos in the astronomical world outside of Earth and the complexity of biology, chemistry, physics, and numerous other variables, a "simple" answer that excludes a creator is highly unprobable. We have asked much simpler questions than the question posed in this debate and ended up with highly complex answers.

"There is very small chance we live in some sort of virtual reality."

In one scholl of thought this is a probability issue. If any civilisation anywhere ever made a complex simulation, its sims made a simulated civilisation, and those sims made a simulated reality, etc, there are by far, more simulated realities than real ones. By probability alone it is more likely you are in a simulated reality as opposed to a "real" reality.


"Even if somehow we find solid evidence that God does exist, the questions of which God and which faith will still remain."

I've studied Hinduism, Islam, Chridtianity, Judaism, Scientology, Urantiaism, Mormonism, JW's, Sunni vs Shia, and in depth. There is not enough space to pose an argument, thus I present you my former debates if interested. All religions have something oddly in common except for one. But in simplicity, let's say "Science is the study of the natural. Religion is the study of the supernatural."


The "evidence" for God is composed of multiple things all at once for me. It's a large recipe that I find very exciting and intellectually stimulating.

1)Philosophical roadblocks and limitations of "naturalistic" theories, such as the regress of infinite causality. Everything has a cause and infinitely.

2)Prophecies being fulfilled and the nature of the world circling around the end of times drain exactly as was fortold.

3)The Fermi paradox. By probability alone our galaxy(much less the universe) should be teaming with life per the Drake Equation.

4)No coherant naturalistic answer for how our reality can exist either finitely(a basketball hangs in nothing) or infinitely(A reality that never ends physically nor ever began (as in a looped computer simulated reality).

5)The natural instinct for those who accomplish something to look up (even secular people).

6)Human history doesn't go back far and then there is no recorded human history.

7)The population math. Not all that long ago there were less people on all of Earth than the population of Texas today.

8)8 of the 10 highest IQ's on Earth are known to be theists.

9)When atoms are observed they behave differently than when not observed. The simple act of observation changes how they behave. It's as though they know they are being watched.

10)Millions of Muslims are seeing the divine Jesus Christ in dreams, not Christians, but Muslims.!

11)There is a flash of light at the moment of conception.

12)The moon is 400 times smaller than the sun and 400 times closer than making both appear the same size and making for perfect elclipses. This phenomenon is used by God in the Bible.

13)The findings of James Gates

14)The Cambrian explosion. The short event where life exploded onto the scene. (fossil record)
Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Bored_Debater 1 year ago
My head hurts. 😢
Posted by Stupidape 1 year ago
Since the metaphysical came up which could take a very long time to discuses. Here's Sam Harris vs a religious person.
Posted by Ragnar 1 year ago
If no one accepts soon, just post it onto the religion forum.
Posted by Stupidape 1 year ago
"So is this basically an argument where Pro defends the excistense of god and Con tries to disprove the excistence of god? If going "Pro" means arguing for a real-life god instead of a figment of imagination, its going to be a tough one for Pro."

Yeah basically. I figure with most of the world believing in a God or Gods there is a high probability that someone will accept.
Posted by McMount 1 year ago
So is this basically an argument where Pro defends the excistense of god and Con tries to disprove the excistence of god? If going "Pro" means arguing for a real-life god instead of a figment of imagination, its going to be a tough one for Pro.
Posted by Cobalt 1 year ago
You should clarify that you are referring to God as a god, not God as an idea.
Posted by Stupidape 1 year ago
"Con: must Pro assume that God "came into existence" at all, or can he argue some other explanation for His existence?"

Sure why not? I tried to leave the Pro side as opened ended as possible.
Posted by KnowledgeBot5 1 year ago
neural activity in the same region of the brain where all other imagined characters come from. god was created by man, so that those who lack the mental skills of comprehension to understand the world around them seen and unseen, can pass those things off to gods doing. anyone ever see the movie, The Village?
Posted by Ragnar 1 year ago
Quite simply religions formed, one day this lead to a religion centered around a deity named God, which now exists in books and pop culture.
Posted by Quintilian 1 year ago
Con: must Pro assume that God "came into existence" at all, or can he argue some other explanation for His existence?
No votes have been placed for this debate.