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How to stop illegal immigration: penalize employers who hire Illegals, more effective than a fence

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/23/2015 Category: People
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 289 times Debate No: 72173
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
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Seems to me that building a fence is trying to solve the illegal immigrants problem form the wrong end. Enforce the laws with stiffer penalties for employers who hire illegals. They will stop coming if they cannot find jobs in the US.


I accept your debate and I will be arguing in favor of a fence as opposed to penalties for business owners. My main point of contention is that many small and large businesses regularly break regulations in spite of the threat of a fine. This would mean that businesses would continue hiring illegals and those caught doing so would pay the fine. This would hurt business without stopping the practice of employing illegals. While it may lessen the practice, that would not have such a large effect on the flow of illegals into the country as completely ending it would.

Another point is that this policy would likely go un-enforced in those areas of the country where cracking down on illegal immigration is not the common consensus. This would draw illegals from our southern border yet farther into our country (being that this mindset is common farther north) because of more readily available employment in the northern regions. Because business owners would favor employing illegals for cheap labor, there would certainly be an increase in attempts on hiding their employment status, making it harder to one day deport those who are in our country illegally. Lastly, Because their employment would be under the table, it would be much easier for them to be exploited by their employer in unsafe conditions, lack of on the job accident insurance, etc.

A fence would be easier to monitor and although it may be more expensive, the alternative would be inhumane and make American business suffer.
Debate Round No. 1


What you are proposing is to support employers who are breaking the law (hiring Illegals). Most of the western economies and culture are based on respecting the law, USA, Canada, UK, Europe, Japan, etc .... This is why they do better compare to South America for instance where the culture is it is OK to break the law, just don't get caught. This culture is their worst enemy. We are heading in the same direction with ignoring illegal activities. It is hard to get anything done if laws are not respected and enforced. You have to revert to solutions like fences. For instance if people start breaking into houses or cars to pick what they want, will the solution be again building fences around the houses? This is what they do in South America, or they lived in fenced sub divisions with security.

We have to put a fence at our border because we don't enforce our own laws. And they will find ways to get around any fence. Stop the Illegal employers hiring Illegal employees and the Illegals will stop coming here because they will not find as many jobs.
Set up a decent and responsive system to make it easy to obtain a visa for an immigrant if he has a job.
Germany have been doing this very successfully. They have almost 0% unemployment because the use the migrant work force to fill in when their work force is not enough. They don't have a fence at their border.
There is a system available in the US to employers called eVerify, to verify that applicants are legal. It is voluntary, Why not enforce it?
My wife owned a temporary staffing company and was only hiring legal employees. But it was unfair to compete against other staffing companies who did not. Also several staffing companies prefer to hire the Illegals because they don't have to treat them fairly.
What is better,
(A) punish business owners who break the law and Illegals as you suggest my solution would do or
(B) punish business owners and Americans who want jobs and are respecting the laws ?
It is one or the other, your are choosing B.


While I agree that our work visa program needs to be revamped, your argument does not address the concern that many places would not enforce the law nearly as strictly as other places. This would lead to businesses in liberal areas being able to operate with cheap labor while those who are obeying the law would be forced to operate under stricter enforced laws. This effectively punishes those obeying the law, the very same thing you accused my argument of supporting. Should our work force be supplemented by legal immigrants? Absolutely! That is not what I am debating. My argument is based on the thought that it would not be enough to simply impose stricter fines on businesses. It will not stop the flow of illegal immigrants into America and it will create a divide in our country where this is enforced and where it is not, and the former will suffer for it.
Debate Round No. 2


I don't understand your argument that part of the country would enforce the laws and part not. The US is one country and we should all have to obey the same laws.
I cannot accept a solution that will keep encouraging business owners to break our laws to be competitive. How far do you go with this, where do you draw the line? When it starts looking like Mexico with all the corruption ?
Currently some business owners pay lobbyists to protect them from being raided by ICE for their illegal work force. ICE and every body in the industry knows where most of the illegals are working, It would be easy to enforce if they would keep the lobbyists out of this.
Show some teeth with the law, and the business owners will stop hiring the Illegals and instead hire Americans or legal workers. Yes it will take some courage, It is much more effective and cheaper than the illusion of a wall. Put a wall up, they will come in by boat, or jump or fly over the wall or dig tunnels under it.
I would feel much better knowing that our country is protecting us and our interests by enforcing the laws then building walls around us.
A wall does not solve the problem of the 11 millions already here.
We have to be honest, if we need this work force, then we need the immigration process to be legal and effective. This is the solution, not a wall and keep breaking the laws and closing our eyes to all the corruption developing around the immigration activities. Because we don't have politicians who have the courage to enforce our laws or refuse the lobbyist funds, we are building a wall (more income to those building the wall and lobbyist money for our politicians)
I, myself am a legal immigrant (Resident Alien or Green Card). My employer sponsored me. Because of the free trade agreement, my employer decided to close all their Canadian operations and manufacture all from the USA. I was offered a job in the USA to help facilitate the transition, but had to do all the legal applications to become a legal worker and resident in the USA.

If the business owners believe they need these workers, then they should sponsor them and help them get their legal status in the USA instead of breaking the laws and pay the lobbyists to have ICE look the other way.

I am for Law and Order instead of Corruption and Walls.


Trikster forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Trikster 1 year ago
No problem man. I'm actually somewhere in the middle on this. Sorry I couldn't do the third round. Some things came up and I got busy.
Posted by DenisR 1 year ago
Thank you Trikster, your debate arguments help me see this problem from another angle.
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