The Instigator
yhubin
Con (against)
Losing
17 Points
The Contender
mongeese
Pro (for)
Winning
27 Points

Human Cloning

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/17/2009 Category: Health
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,792 times Debate No: 8986
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (9)

 

yhubin

Con

Back in History, cars was an object only the rich and the famous could have and afford, now a days, everyone has one.,

what if this happens with Cloning, at first, only the rich can afford them, but after a while, it becomes so common, that tyrants or military dictators could just clone armies.. That would risk, Both civil and international safety.

In order to make clones you need to have a lot of women at your disposal, to either give the eggs or produce more and more basing on the demand.

last of all, if one were to allow cloning, what would happen to the population crisis, that we, the 7. billion people in the world are suffering of today.

having clones made, would be irresponsible and wrong..

I thank you for the interesting debate I am waiting to see
mongeese

Pro

"what if this happens with Cloning, at first, only the rich can afford them, but after a while, it becomes so common, that tyrants or military dictators could just clone armies.. That would risk, Both civil and international safety."
This assumes that the human cloning process can be done quickly, and without notice. However, it would take years for the cloned army to reach an age at which they could do anything besides be a bunch of schoolyard bullies.

"In order to make clones you need to have a lot of women at your disposal, to either give the eggs or produce more and more basing on the demand."
If the ova are to be extracted, then a single human female's body already contains numerous ova, so it wouldn't require many.
Plus, if the clones are to be born naturally, couldn't this be accomplished just as easy through natural pregnancy? What difference does cloning make?

"last of all, if one were to allow cloning, what would happen to the population crisis, that we, the 7. billion people in the world are suffering of today."
Why would we be cloning humans just so that they exist? The best use (and only use, really) of human cloning would be to clone individual organs, which could then be used as replacements in the case of organ failure.

Note that the cloning of a single organ is still human cloning, as found here: http://en.wikipedia.org...

"having clones made, would be irresponsible and wrong.."
Having back-up organs is wrong?

Thank you for starting this debate; I, too, hope that this will be interesting.
Debate Round No. 1
yhubin

Con

This assumes that the human cloning process can be done quickly, and without notice. However, it would take years for the cloned army to reach an age at which they could do anything besides be a bunch of schoolyard bullies."

i understand where my opponent is coming from, but don't you think that A, if research advances, don't you think that Humans would be able to clone humans at a specific age, that they would want the clone to come out off. and B if a huge Operation is Being held, don't you think world leaders or people with aces to this can wait a couple of years.. ( there is a thing out there called Child soldiers... at large numbers, they could be affective.

Plus, if the clones are to be born naturally, couldn't this be accomplished just as easy through natural pregnancy? What difference does cloning make?"

when a natural birth is given, it requires doctors, required staff and ETC, if we were to legalize cloning huge farms could be set up, with just cubicles of babies growing... at a huge number...

The best use (and only use, really) of human cloning would be to clone individual organs, which could then be used as replacements in the case of organ failure."

The problem with cloning organs, is that you start to interfere with ethnic groups, as it is playing the role of "god" if you put the hands of your life in the hands of a doctor.. fortunately not all ethnic followers are like that, but extremists are heard and are listened too.... who says that the organ failure would be as good as a healthy normal heart? who says that along the way, it might just have a defect?

Who knows... who knows, that is why I oppose Human Cloning, so we don't have to figure out whether a cloned organ works or not by seeing whether the man lives or dies

I thank you for accepting the debate.....
mongeese

Pro

if research advances, don't you think that Humans would be able to clone humans at a specific age, that they would want the clone to come out off."
No. If they could, it would require technology beyond human cloning. It would require the alteration of time, and the power to alter time in itself is dangerous, with an army clone or not.

"if a huge Operation is Being held, don't you think world leaders or people with aces to this can wait a couple of years.. ( there is a thing out there called Child soldiers... at large numbers, they could be affective."
They wouldn't go unnoticed for ten years. They would have to keep their army someplace, and they would be spotted, and arrested.

"when a natural birth is given, it requires doctors, required staff and ETC, if we were to legalize cloning huge farms could be set up, with just cubicles of babies growing... at a huge number..."
Human cloning would require as many doctors as natural birth, if not more. Huge human breeding farms could be set up without cloning. You assume that cloning is a simple process, but it's not.

"The problem with cloning organs, is that you start to interfere with ethnic groups, as it is playing the role of 'god' if you put the hands of your life in the hands of a doctor.."
Getting a replacement heart that matches your own DNA does not interfere with ethnic groups, and creating a heart with no mind is not "playing God." We put our life in the hands of doctors constantly. Human cloning doesn't change that.

"fortunately not all ethnic followers are like that, but extremists are heard and are listened too.... "
Ethnicity is irrelevant.

"who says that the organ failure would be as good as a healthy normal heart? who says that along the way, it might just have a defect?"
If my heart gives out, I can either die or get a replacement heart. I don't care if it is defective, which it probably isn't. The purpose of this back-up organ is for it to be used when my original heart is no longer functional.

"Who knows... who knows, that is why I oppose Human Cloning, so we don't have to figure out whether a cloned organ works or not by seeing whether the man lives or dies"
We'd only use the organ when the man needs it. It's not like we replace all of his organs because we feel like it. If he's in a car crash, and his liver is crushed, either we give him the cloned liver, or he dies. The probability of life is better than death.

Thanks for continuing this debate.
Debate Round No. 2
yhubin

Con

They wouldn't go unnoticed for ten years. They would have to keep their army someplace, and they would be spotted, and arrested."

this might be totally irrelevant, but do we know whats in Area 51? because it has been a long time it has been there and no one knows whats inside it, so if the government can hide something like that, why could they not hide something like a huge factory, no one goes in or our... you state they would be arrested, but why are there so many countries in the world which use child soldiers.. why is it that they have not been arrested?

(please watch the video to understand)
www.invisiblechildren.com

the children in the video, although has nothing to do with human cloning have gone unnoticed for years and years and years!! and still no one arrested.

Human cloning would require as many doctors as natural birth, if not more. Huge human breeding farms could be set up without cloning. You assume that cloning is a simple process, but it's not."

i did not mean to imply that it was a easy process, all i was stating was that if once again, technology advances, which most likely it will, people will be able to create Human clones with limited supervision needed. How ever, with natural births you have to supervise whether the mothers okay, whethers the baby going to be fine and whether she is going to live or not.....

Ethnicity is irrelevant."

define Ethnicity: 1) enoting or deriving from or distinctive of the ways of living built up by a group of people

2)An ethnic group is a group of human beings whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage

your statement is simply wrong.. "http://en.wikipedia.org...;

here is a passage from the article: For example, bioethicist Thomas Murray of the Hastings Center argues that "it is absolutely inevitable that groups are going to try to clone a human being. But they are going to create a lot of dead and dying babies along the way."

If my heart gives out, I can either die or get a replacement heart. I don't care if it is defective, which it probably isn't. The purpose of this back-up organ is for it to be used when my original heart is no longer functional."

once again, you are taking you are sharing what YOU would do, you do not know what everyone would...

i should thank you for accepting the debate...

VOTE CON!!
mongeese

Pro

"this might be totally irrelevant, but do we know whats in Area 51? because it has been a long time it has been there and no one knows whats inside it, so if the government can hide something like that, why could they not hide something like a huge factory, no one goes in or our..."
Couldn't they create an army of different people just as easily as an army of clones? An army is an army.

"you state they would be arrested, but why are there so many countries in the world which use child soldiers.. why is it that they have not been arrested?"
Obviously, a society with human cloning technology would be more advanced than Africa today. The political turmoil in Africa is the current problem.

"the children in the video, although has nothing to do with human cloning have gone unnoticed for years and years and years!! and still no one arrested."
However, we know that they are there. There have been attempts at stopping the use of child soldiers, which will hopefully one day succeed.

"i did not mean to imply that it was a easy process, all i was stating was that if once again, technology advances, which most likely it will, people will be able to create Human clones with limited supervision needed."
That means that a natural birth would also become much easier, which makes cloning irrelevant.

"How ever, with natural births you have to supervise whether the mothers okay, whethers the baby going to be fine and whether she is going to live or not....."
If the person running the whole thing is a tyrant, then the mothers wouldn't be supervised, even with a natural birth. The level of concern is not changed by the cloning aspect.

"here is a passage from the article: For example, bioethicist Thomas Murray of the Hastings Center argues that 'it is absolutely inevitable that groups are going to try to clone a human being. But they are going to create a lot of dead and dying babies along the way.'"
If we try to stick with organs, this wouldn't be a problem.

"once again, you are taking you are sharing what YOU would do, you do not know what everyone would..."
The general will to survive would lead the majority of the population to prefer a cloned heart to no heart.

"i should thank you for accepting the debate..."
So should I. Let's. Thank you for starting this enjoyable debate.

In conclusion, the use of human cloning to create armies is really no different from a genetically diverse army, and the use of human cloning to create back-up organs is only positive, with only a risk of defection that is equal to the risk of defection in an ordinary heart.
Vote PRO!!!
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by mongeese 4 years ago
mongeese
Do the voters have no shame?
Posted by wjmelements 5 years ago
wjmelements
Capitalization gives PRO spelling.
The organ argument gives PRO arguments.
Sources were tied.
Conduct was tied.
Posted by wjmelements 5 years ago
wjmelements
CON confused ethicity and ethnicity...
Posted by Lifeisgood 5 years ago
Lifeisgood
B/A: Con/Pro.
Conduct: Tie.
S/G: Pro. Obviously.
Arguments: Pro. His final argument did it.
Sources: Tie.
Posted by mongeese 5 years ago
mongeese
I advise everybody who voted to post RFDs.
Posted by mongeese 5 years ago
mongeese
B/A - PRO
Conduct - TIED
S/G - PRO
CON had numerous capitalization errors.
Arguments - PRO
Read the conclusion.
Sources - TIED
Both sides used Wikipedia.
9 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Vote Placed by JBlake 4 years ago
JBlake
yhubinmongeeseTied
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