The Instigator
philosurfer
Pro (for)
Winning
13 Points
The Contender
Furyan5
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Humans ARE Animals

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
philosurfer
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/8/2015 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,142 times Debate No: 74632
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (211)
Votes (3)

 

philosurfer

Pro

HUMANS ARE ANIMALS


R1: Acceptance Only

No New Arguments in 5th.

Semantics Welcome.

Open Debate.
Furyan5

Con

accept. good luck to you.
Debate Round No. 1
philosurfer

Pro





FORWARD

There was some initial argumentation in the comment section of this debate over whether or not the motion is a statement of fact, "Humans ARE Animals," and should have therefore been placed under the category of science rather than philosophy.

So it is with great anticipation and hope that we (myself & Con) can eventually present a philosophical case for whether or not Humans Are Animals.


OVERVIEW


I am Pro of the motion and I too also believe the motion is a statement of fact to a degree in terms of pure objectivity. I will therefore start first by presenting the scientific facts that prove humans are animals. This will be Contention I.

Second, I will discuss and dissolve any idea that the seemly special "human" characteristics of people are in fact in no way only exclusive to just humans. This will be Contention II.

And lastly, I will discuss philosophically WHY all of this matters and WHY understanding and viewing humans as animals is fundamentally a better worldview than the assumption that humans are more than animals and are somehow separate and apart from the natural world. This will be Contention III - but it will not be presented in the first round as it will be presented in the later rounds after Con begins to present his case.



CONTENTION I - Humans Are Related to ALL Other Life on Earth

A) Humans Evolved [1][2][3][4][5].





Humans could not be said to have evolved IF they were not animals.






B) Humans are Comprised of the Exact Same Aanimal Pieces & Parts (the Animal Cell, tissue, organs & chemistry).

As far as I know, there are no major difference between the animal cells in the human species from that of any other animal species (of course discluding plant cells). The animal cells in a horse, dog, whale, fish, or goat are the exact same in terms of the animals cell's machinery.

A cell is the basic building block (unit) of/for tissues of an organism [7].






This is why organs and tissues from other animals can be used in life saving medical transplants. Heart valves from pigs, for example, have been used in humans [6].





C) Vertebrate Embryonic Developmental Stages and Appearance are Almost Identical in All Species (including the human species).





Below is a side by side comparison of a Chimp embryo (L) and human embryo (R).







D) Overlapping Magisteria - other sciences are confirming these facts (genetics, anthropology, medicine, etc.)

If there were any creditable discrepancies of the fact of human evolution, or as to homo sapiens' place in nature, we would expect these to be uncovered in other fields of inquiry and sciences. We do not; just the opposite has happened - other fields and branches of science are continuing to build the body of evidence as to Man's place in nature.

For example, our closest living relative is chimpanzee. If this is true than we would expect the field of genetics to yield data that would also support this fact. And indeed this what we find. Humans and Chimpanzees can be said to share over 98% of the exact same genetics [18].

We know that we share some of the same genes with even plant life [18].

E) Infectious Disease - diseases are shared and contracted by varying different species of animals.

Bacteria and viruses attack animal cells and tissues despite any ideas of distinguishing species.

For example, Ebola, is now understood to come from bats. Precisely because human biology (tissue and cells) are so similar to that of other species - the virus can survive and infect bats, humans and other animals alike - with devastating consequences in human populations.





We would not be able to synthesis a cure for diseace or vaccines in other animals; animal testing would be a waste if our biology wasn't similar.



Contention II - What Makes us "HUMAN" Can Also Be Observed in Nature


A) Intelligence - Problem Solving & Reasoning - Use of Tools & Technologies

Ravens, the smartest of all birds, have demonstrated they can solve an 8 step problem solving and reasoning test [11]. The link below provides access to this.

https://www.youtube.com...


B) Communication & Language

We observe animals like Koko the Gorilla, who has been taught to communicate through Sign Language, express and clearly understand emotions like laughter and sadness and explain that these experiences are "bad" and "sad" or "good" and "happy" (See Koko cry when her cat is killed, attached video) [8][16].

https://www.youtube.com...

It has been scientifically verified that Koko knows over 1000 different words and their meanings and uses them comprehensively [17].


C) Artistic Expression

Below is an actual painting made by an elephant [9]. The link below shows the elephant actually painting it!





https://www.youtube.com...


D) Moral Behavior

Michael Schermer describes some animal behavior as premoral sentiments - behavior in animals that is shared by humans which include: attachment and bonding, cooperation and mutual aid, sympathy and empathy, direct and indirect reciprocity, altruism and reciprocal altruism, conflict resolution and peacemaking, deception and deception detection, community concern and caring about what others think about you, and awareness of and response to the social rules of the group [12].

Animals such as Capuchin monkeys and dogs also display an understanding of fairness, refusing to co-operate when presented unequal rewards for the same behaviors [13][14].

We find examples of genuine morality among animals especially in a group setting. What we find is a system where members of the group use praise, condemnation, reward, and punishment to alter the dispositions of other members of the group.


E) Religious Behavior

Early Burials

"Most anthropologists now agree, based on evidence uncovered at 20 or so grave sites throughout Western Europe, that our closest evolutionary relatives buried their dead.

In 1908, two archaeologists uncovered the 50,000-year-old Neanderthal skeleton in the cave, and almost immediately they speculated that the remains were intentionally buried. But a lack of information about the excavation procedures used by the Bouyssonie brothers—as well as the fact that they were Catholic priests—caused many skeptics to wonder if the discovery had been misinterpreted.

The idea that Neanderthals buried their dead fits with recent findings that they were capable of symbolic thought and of developing rich cultures. For example, findings show they likely decorated themselves using pigments, and wore jewelry made of feathers and colored shells" [15].

“This discovery not only confirms the existence of Neanderthal burials in Western Europe, but also reveals a relatively sophisticated cognitive capacity to produce them,” explains William Rendu, the study’s lead author and a researcher at the Center for International Research in the Humanities and Social Sciences in New York City."




Cited Source References:


[1] http://humanorigins.si.edu...
[2] http://evolution.berkeley.edu...
[3] http://www.pbs.org...
[4] http://www.britannica.com...
[5] http://www.mhhe.com...
[6] http://www.heart-valve-surgery.com...
[7] http://www.biology-online.org...
[8] www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQCOHUXmEZg
[9] www.youtube.com/watch?v=He7Ge7Sogrk
[10] www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-xFlKfmLGY
[11] www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbSu2PXOTOc
[12] The Science of Good and Evil, Michael Shermer (2004)
[13] http://www.primates.com...
[14] http://www.pnas.org...
[15] http://news.nationalgeographic.com...
[16] http://www.koko.org...
[17] http://www.koko.org...;
[18] http://genecuisine.blogspot.com...
Furyan5

Con

Thank you pro for what I hope will be a interesting debate. Thank you as well for the biology lesson. I appreciate the time and effort you put into it, but I don't see the relevance. Unless you are expecting me to prove that humans evolved from extraterrestrials or were created just as we are by some devine entity. I agree that humans evolved from animals and share all animal characteristics.
But are we animals?
Lets begin by defining animals. Animals respond to their surroundings as perceived through their perceptions. They do what they need to do to survive, not only as an indevidual but also as a species. They kill only to eat. They nurture and protect their young. And they live in harmony with nature.
Humans on the other hand create their own surroundings. We build houses, farms, cities. We kill for sport. Hunting animals and in some cases other humans. Not to eat. We domesticate animals to give us milk and eggs. To do our work. As pets or for use in scientific experiments. We do not live in harmony with nature. We are in fact destroying the very planet we need to survive. We do not do what we need to do to ensure the survival of our species. We fill the heads of our offspring with wild notions such as religion, romance novels and the all importance of money and possessions. We enslave the weaker minded of the species into doing menial labour at minimal fiscal reward. Barely giving them enough to feed, house and clothe themselves and use things like alcohol to keep them happy. We rape. We kill. We destroy.
Are humans animals? No.
To quote a line from the matrix, we exibit actions very similar to another living thing.
Humans are a virus.
Debate Round No. 2
philosurfer

Pro





Con, thank you for your short and yet concise reply.

The illustration above encapsulates much of what Con has expressed about the social behavior and technological progress of the human species. Each rectangular box represents a time period or era. In almost every box, if one examines closely, you can see an act of death and an act of sex. This is curious because these are instinctive (animal) behaviors. Notice how the last box is left empty - hinting at the artist's point of asking what comes next(?).


Rebuttals


Con Said: "..Thank you as well for the biology lesson. I appreciate the time and effort you put into it, but I don't see the relevance.."

This statement and idea completely ignores Contention II entirely!

Con, exactly what makes us human then?!

We have already established that:
Its not intelligence.
Its not moral behavior.
Its not tool use or technologies.
Its not religious behavior.
Its not language.
Its not the ability to create great works of art.

These are ALL observed by other animals or occur naturally in nature.

So, again, Con exactly what makes us human?!

Con Said: "..I agree that humans evolved from animals and share all animal characteristics.."

This sounds like a full concession of the motion!

Despite the biology lesson that has no relevance to you, a major point of Contention I is precisely that the human species couldn't have evolved in the first place if they weren't already animals!

Have humans evolved to no longer be animals? Then how can we still use tissues and organs from other animals in life saving procedures? How can we still contract infectious diseases in our tissues and bodies of organs?

BECAUSE we ARE animals.


Con Said: "..[animals] They kill only to eat.."

This is incorrect!


ANIMALS & WAR (murder)


Chimps have been documented and observed waging war with no clear survival reasons. Chimps have been observed to murder for no clear survival based reasons either. Troops will wage war, for all intends and purposes, just to wage war. When all variables are isolated for - they seem to enjoy war [1].


ANIMALS & SEX (rape)


Dolphins are know to commonly RAPE [2].

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com...

I believe there is an account on record of a dolphin attempting to rape a human even. Trainers of dolphins point this out regularly - dolphins are very sexual animals and forcefully so to where we might even call them perverted animals.


ANIMALS & DRUGS (getting high)


Another interesting fact is that animals of varying species like to get high!

Monkeys on resort islands regularly steal and consume alcoholic beverages from tourist to get drunk [3].

https://www.youtube.com...

There is a lemur that lightly bites a centipede so the centipede's defense toxins. But the reason the lemur doesn't kill the centipede is so that it can get high off of it again later [4].

https://www.youtube.com...


Bees have been know to get drunk on fermented tree sap and fruit [5].

https://www.youtube.com...


ANIMALS & DOMESTICATION (farming)


Con Said: "..We domesticate animals.."

Varying species of ants domesticate fungus [6].

http://www.arkive.org...


Another species of ant domesticate smaller insects to produce a sugary food source [7].

https://www.youtube.com...


Con Said: "..Humans are a virus.."

BUT a virus IS an ANIMAL!



Cited Source References:

[1] http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

[2] http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com...

[3] https://www.youtube.com...

[4] https://www.youtube.com...

[5] https://www.youtube.com...

[6] http://www.arkive.org...

[7] https://www.youtube.com...






Furyan5

Con

Yes we have evolved from animals and have all animal characeristics but we have evolved past animals. We are in fact so far advanced that we can no longer be defined as animals. At this point I would like to thank pro for helping to explain my next point.
In the previous round I expressed an opinion. Pro too expressed an opinion. Its a particular view on reality determined by our beliefs. This is what seperates us from animals. Animals lack beliefs. They view the world as it is. What their senses perceive determines their reality. Yes dolphins rape. But they rape because they enjoy it. They do not comprehend good and evil. Humans are the only creatures who go against their instincts. When a lion is hungry it eats. When a bird is tired, it sleeps and when a dog is on heat, it mates. Humans will diet or become vegan because of beliefs. They will stay up late to party. And the female of the species uses the term headache to manipulate the males behaviour. I may be mistaken about this last trait being a non-animal technique. The black widow spider comes to mind.
There are two other traits which make humans unique. One is empathy. Our ability to care for others. Not just other humans but other animals. There are exceptions. Humans who give in to their animal instincts. They commit attrocities such as murder, rape, slavery,war and hunting. I can see where one could mistake such humans for animals. But they are the exception and not the rule.
The second trait is contemplation of the future. What happens after death. A squirrel may store nuts for the winter, but that is instinctive. Animals do not contemplate a afterlife. They may fear death instinctively and even mourn the passing of one of the heard. But contemplation of the future and life after death is what makes us human and not animals.
Debate Round No. 3
philosurfer

Pro

Rebuttals:

"..but we have evolved past animals.."

Exactly HOW?!

Again, how can we still use tissues and organs from other animals in life saving procedures then? How can we still contract infectious diseases in our tissues and bodies of organs that come from other animals?

We have already established that:
Its not intelligence.
Its not moral behavior.
Its not tool use or technologies.
Its not religious behavior.
Its not language.
Its not the ability to create great works of art.
Its not the ability to murder.
Its not the ability to farm.
Its not the ability to rape or have sex.
It's not the ability to get high and do drugs.

These are ALL observed by other animals or occur naturally in nature.

So, again, Con exactly what makes us human?!

In the last round you offered the additional ideas that:
Animals lack beliefs
They do not comprehend good and evil
Humans are the only creatures who go against their instincts
empathy
contemplation of the future and life after death is what makes us human and not animals

BUT Con - when was the last time you investigated any of these claims and notions?! For instance, how do you know animals contemplate an after life? Exactly how do you know animals lack beliefs?

In my opinion you are now claiming to know things that you don't really know.

I could give counter examples for each of these additional ideas you have offered as I've done for all the previous ideas put forward.

Its been said that to plant a garden is to plan for the future. We have examples of ants farming.

Relegating these perfectly natural examples to pure instinct would be a mistake in my opinion, and, again, a claim on your part that you don't know. It's tantamount to a kind of "evolutionary chauvinism."

We observe altruism in nature - which is very part of empathy.

And I would argue that to sheep a wolf is very evil - as is the lion to the gazelle.

Contention III

What people believe matters. What people believe will direct and influence how they act in the world.

Being "disconnected" from the rest of the world is disastrous for obvious reasons. If people hold a belief in which their lives here on earth are separate from all other life, they will live without a sense of respect for the world, nature, the environment, other people.

The truth is that we are deeply connected to the world and all life - and understanding how we are connected and being aware of how we are connected to the world will help us live in the correct equilibrium.

Native Americans knew about their deep connection to the cosmos and that they were not separate from nature but absolutely part of it. They had a healthy respect for the world and nature on a very deep spiritual level and understood that their survival was intrinsic to/part of nature. They valued life and saw how delicate and fragile life is.

99% of all life that has ever existed on earth is now extinct.

We are connected to the earth chemically. We are connected to each other and all life biologically. And we are connected to the rest of the cosmos atomically. This is scientifically true, but more importantly, the implications of this are deeply spiritual. This is where we need to derive our sense of spirituality and oneness.

We will not survive if we go around thinking that we are somehow specially distinct from the rest of the world and spiritually superior to everything else. It's not healthy. And it's just not true.

The only time I have ever been able to separate humans from the rest of the world has been NEVER! We are EXACTLY like other living animals. We are conceived in the same way as a horse, dog, aardvark, whale.. etc. ..we are made up of the exact same pieces and parts, our bodies even have the same organs and organ systems, blood chemistry, etc.

What separates humans from the rest of the world besides a slightly larger pre-frontal cortex? Because it"s clear we eat, defecate, vomit, have primal sexual urges and do all of the things that other physical systems are doing..

Yes, we create art, music, write books, have linguistic communications conveying complex concepts and ideas, and yet were are still animals doing these things (which is even more amazing to me).

That"s what is hard about all of this. It"s not as dignified as we might have liked, hope or want it to be. And though there are certain aspects to all of this that might be short on joy, we are still here!

We share DNA with even vegetative life, plants and trees (one can get very detailed with this: the enzymes that separate and "unzip" the molecule is the same enzyme for an oak tree as it is in human genetic replications).

The mitochondrial part of an animal cell was it"s own single cell at one point but somehow became fused inside animal cells; was parasitic at first but then was assembled into the inner workings and functions of the Animal cell as a kind of symbiosis. These cells make up our bodies.

What conclusions should we draw about ourselves from these inferences? That we are separate from the world?

Considering these, and many other ideas that are safely under the shelter of well established knowledge, how does it make any sense to deduce we are "separate" or somehow "superior" from the rest of life? It doesn't.

Humans ARE Animals!
Furyan5

Con

How are we different?
I believe I have already answered that.
Animals have intelligence, but not as evolved as ours.
Animals have morals, but not as evolved as ours.
Compair the painting by the elephant to a painting by Davinci.
Yes we have animal instincts and some organs can be transplanted, but not the human brain.
To some it up, I have never stated we are superior to animals. Far to the contrary I stated our behaviour typical to that of a virus. But we have the ability to rise above our animal instincts. No matter we choose not to. We still possess that ability where animals do not. That is the fundimental difference between humans and animals.

Thank you pro for a educational and thought-provoking debate which a thoroughly enjoyed.
Debate Round No. 4
philosurfer

Pro





FINAL REBUTTALS



"..How are we different? ..
I believe I have already answered that.."

Actually, NO, you haven't!!!


Everything you have offered can be seen in other animals!

I have even given and offered actual video documentation refuting every claim you have made!

The reason why this is important is because, then, these aren't sufficient ideas to support humans to be separate or distinct - or as you have said, "..we have evolved past animals.."

You are also now back-tracking by saying that, "..I have never stated we are superior to animals.."

Yet, you previously listed that you thought human intelligence and morality to be more evolved.

You are clearly contradicting yourself here on this point.

And, if this is true, then you haven't secured an adequate example of how humans are different from the rest of the animal kingdom.




We have already established that:

Its not intelligence - A raven can solve an 8 step problem solving test. As can a octopus.

Its not moral behavior - We observe premoral sentiments and accountability systems in social animals.

Koko the Gorilla has described experience as "good" and "happy" or as "Bad' and "sad".

Many anthropologist, neuro-scientists, and philosophers believe these are the beginnings of an understanding of Good & Evil.


Its not tool use or technologies - Chimps, elephants, ravens, can all be seen using tools.


Its not religious behavior - Premodern humans ritualistically buried their dead in religious ways.


Its not language - Koko the Gorilla uses over 1,000 sign words comprehensively.

Dolphins and whale song is said to be more complex than human language in many respects.


Its not the ability to create great works of art - The example given show elephants creating great works of art.

Chimps have been taught to paint as well.


Its not the ability to murder - Chimps wage war and murder.


Its not the ability to farm - Ants farm fungus and raise and domesticate aphids for food source production.


Its not the ability to rape or have sex - Dolphins rape and have sex simply for pleasure.


Its not the ability to get high and do drugs - All sorts of animals get drunk and high as referenced.

Its not beliefs or a rejection of instincts - Humans have the same instincts (sex, food, etc.).

The fact that humans choose to forgo certain instinctive impulses can't really be used to separate from other animals.

Animals will refuse to eat if a food source is contaminated for instance.


Its not altruism or empathy - It is common knowledge that we observe altruism in nature.

Again, we believe these premoral sentiments are related to ethics.

Many believe that empathy is the driving force of altruistic acts in nature (vise-versa).


Its not ideas of life after death - Again, Premodern humans ritualistically buried their dead in religious ways. Animals can be observed mourning the death of a family member.

These are ALL observed by other animals and/or occur naturally in nature!


Post Debate


Con & voters, I'm happy to include additional video documentation and sources in the Comment section, even post-debate, if you or anyone would like to pursue ANY of Con's suggestions.

If anyone feels I didn't address or refute something Con mentioned - please reference it in the Comments and I will address it.


Closing Thoughts for Con

Take the two examples of empathy and religious behaviors:

Con, why do you NOT believe that empathy would be observed in nature?

Animals (chimps) can wage war for no apparent reason and even murder - yet you think that traits like compassion and empathy would be void?

Why would Koko the Gorilla literally cry when her cat was killed?

Early burials indicate that pre-modern humans buried their dead in a ritualistic way - indicating that they more than likely harbored beliefs about an after life or a realm to come (why else would they include tools or bones or their dogs?).

These types of burials can be observed in other pre-modern hominid species besides homo sapiens sapiens, Cromagnons and Neanderthals for example.

Cave art in the caves of France can be dated back to over 30,000 years. This art indicates insights and belief systems and ritual.


Summary of Rebuttals


Con, at best, even if you take the position that human beings are the pinnacle of certain animal attributes, maybe even superior in some ways, superiority of an attribute isn't the same thing as being separate or distinct or more evolved (however you would now try to word humans as more than animals).

In other words, even if human art is more complex (for example), art then isn't an example that distinguishes or makes humans more than animals. It would only indicate that we are simply maybe better at it - not no longer animals.

You offered the idea, "..Compare the painting by the elephant to a painting by Davinci.."

Below is a painting by Mark Rothko.

David Rockefeller, Sr. sold this painting to Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa Al-Thani in 2007 for 74.9 million dollars, one
of the top auction art paintings ever (basically, at the time, one of the most expensive pieces of art ever bought and sold).

Here it is juxtaposed above another example of an elephant self-portrait painting.

I ask you - which is more complex?









PHILOSOPHY OF THE HUMAN ANIMAL

Debating the topic of whether or not human beings are animals IS a philosophical debate because it is also inadvertently asking what it means to be a human being.

What does it mean to be a human being?

I believe, in this debate, I have convincing demonstrated that the Human animal is in fact an animal and that the supposed special characteristics of the human species - what we often cite as our humanness (assumed to be uniquely human) is an illusion.

Human beings may have landed on the moon - but its by using the pinnacle of very same intelligence already found and evolved in nature.


Conclusion


Humans ARE Animals.


Closing Statement

I will not try to sway the voters in closing remarks.

I simply ask that DDO's voting guidelines be followed.

Con, please remember the debate's format. No new arguments in this final round - though you may give final rebuttals and analysis.

Thank You.


Furyan5

Con

Thank you Pro. You seem to equate more evolved to superior. I made no such distinction. Therefore there is no contradiction.
I believe we are more evolved. Comparing those two pictures proves it. Only humans can grasp abstract art. The reason I believe animals superior to humans is that they have reached their full potential. They do live in harmony with nature. Humans on the other hand have the ability to reach for the stars, quite literally. Yet there are children dying of starvation. Lives wasted in wars over beliefs, money, land and oil. With our intellect we should have created an ideal world by now, but instead we have acts like rape, murder, abuse of the weak. Actions we call animal yet its actually very rare for animals to do such things. You ask what makes us different from animals? Its not our humanity. Its our inhumanity that makes us different. Animals reach the hight of their potential. Humans reach the depths.

Thank you pro for a most enjoyable debate
Good luck.
Debate Round No. 5
211 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Furyan5 1 year ago
Furyan5
The pleasure was mine. Enjoy your family. May you share many good memories together.

You have the best God a man can ask for.
Take care my friend
Posted by philosurfer 1 year ago
philosurfer
Thanks for the conversation ... Take care
Posted by Furyan5 1 year ago
Furyan5
You ask too many at once. Try one at a time and I'll answer.
Posted by philosurfer 1 year ago
philosurfer
If you're now aware that you haven't answers most of my questions....... wouldn't the courteous thing to do be to answer them now?
Posted by philosurfer 1 year ago
philosurfer
If you're now aware that you haven't answers most of my questions....... wouldn't the courteous thing to do be to answer them now?
Posted by Furyan5 1 year ago
Furyan5
To be honest I don't know if I'm dillusional or not. Sometimes things I forsee, happen. But sometimes they don't. It may have something to do with me putting things down before they happen. Will have to test that somehow. Lol would be great if I could stop the coming apocylips just by saying its coming. That would be worth having people think i'm crazy. What do you think?
Posted by philosurfer 1 year ago
philosurfer
Reading from the top - which of the many questions I have asked you did you do me the common courtesy and reply to?

You said whatever you wanted, brought up completely differently material and basically killed the conversation.

Sorry, but I even broke it down and explained it to you and it doesn't seem to matter.

So purple elephants, I'm not wasting anymore time trying to have a discussion with someone who thinks more highly of themselves than their mind and conversation skills can backup.

Even when you say doesn't make sense you'll say it's intended for someone else. No one could have a reason conversation with someone who does that.
Posted by Furyan5 1 year ago
Furyan5
Reading from the top, please tell me from which point you see the elephant? or does none of it make any sense to you?
Posted by philosurfer 1 year ago
philosurfer
...Purple Elephants...

Take Care
Posted by Furyan5 1 year ago
Furyan5
Movies, holy books, threads and even from google. I find the Holy ScienceBlog.com very eyeopening. But don't just read what they say, think about it. Logic is the root of all evil. It leads to conclusion, which are not facts. Conclusions lead to preconceptions, which make you read into facts, what YOU want to see. If your answer comes in the form of a story or movie, if it comes from islam or hinduism, or if it comes from science, its all the same.
If I was just making up things, why would I take so much time and put so much effort into explaining it? I'm not Ranting and Raving or threatening anyone with hell and damnation. To the contrary, I say it matters not what you believe. Live your life and be happy. How can I be so licid one minute and totally irrational the next? Is it JUST possible I know things that you don't know? In fact, things you don't need to know? Things that if you knew them, it would make living unbearable. Look at the first picture in my photo album. Start there. Then decide if you really want to know the truth about the MATRIX we call reality. My friend, if you love life, if you love your family, if you love chocolte cake and burgers, be content. Take the blue pill. But if your desire is for the TRUTH (IS), then seek, and ye shall find. Choose wisely.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
philosurferFuryan5Tied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Sources to Pro for being the only one who used sources in this debate. Arguments will have to go to Pro as well. This is due to Pro Con's entire case revolving around the fact that humans are unique to other animals, but was unable to show that humans were not animals as Pro showed that all animals had unique traits and thus negating Con's case.
Vote Placed by tejretics 1 year ago
tejretics
philosurferFuryan5Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con's entire case rested on the fact that humans have unique traits compared to other species. Pro was able to demonstrate that every species has its own unique trait, and "Animalia" is a kingdom. Via. solid arguments such as the fact that only animals experience evolution and humans experienced evolution in at least one of its forms, and the fact that there are various other physiological and genetic similarities. Only animals have eukaryotic cellular biology, which was also shown clearly by Pro. Organs and tissue from non-human animals CAN be used on humans and sometimes vice versa. Con's weak rebuttals could not attack the shown similarities and tons of sources used by Pro. Thus, Pro gains arguments. As always, happy to clarify this RFD.
Vote Placed by n7 1 year ago
n7
philosurferFuryan5Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments.