The Instigator
1Historygenius
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Sans_the_Ander
Con (against)
Winning
11 Points

Humans Would Defeat Zombies in a Global Pandemic

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Sans_the_Ander
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/22/2012 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 5,630 times Debate No: 22259
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (8)
Votes (3)

 

1Historygenius

Pro

I believe that in a global pandemic, humans would win against zombies.

The goal for the zombies:
The zombies have to infect every human on earth.

The goal for the humans:
To annihilate all zombies in the pandemic.

Round 1 is just for acceptance.
Sans_the_Ander

Con

Accepted. State your case
Debate Round No. 1
1Historygenius

Pro

OK now I would be pointing out how in this day in age a zombie outbreak would fail. Lets go through a scenario:

How A Zombie Outbreak Cannot Expand

In a major city in the United States a person has to be sent to the hospital because he is very sick. When sent there, the doctors have no idea how to treat it, but try to find ways, but then the patient starts acting violent and bites several people in the hospital and scratches several others. Soon the infection starts through the entire city as police try to fend off the zombies, but the US military arrives and blocks the entire city so no one can get through unless they are not infected and even then they have to get inspected by the CDC. Soon the zombies have ended up stuck in a city and if they even come close to the ring of fortifications around it they will be killed. This is one reason why the zombies will not win. They are mainly slow moving creatures and we can easily encircle them. Even if they managed to take an entire country the borders of nearby countries would be watched.

People Know How to Kill Zombies

In all the movies people are really scared and don't know where to shoot zombies. Then they somehow learn head shots do the trick. This is also known through video games like Call of Duty: Black Ops' zombie mode. It is now common sense to kill a zombie in the head. Furthermore, people know to avoid zombies to.

Science May be Able to make A Vaccination

Now despite many movies depicted scientists as failing to find a vaccine who is not to day they very well could?

Weather and Terrain Would Assist in Stopping Zombies

I do not think zombies do well in winter storms. They can get caught in steep mountains to where people would be able to stay on. Zombies can easily be stopped by something as simple as a buildings to or a concrete wall.

Underground Bunkers

The government and the elite no doubt have hiding spots to go to where they can hide in these bunkers with food to last them several lifetimes. They would just simply hide down there until their deaths. Vivos has also been making underground shelters in case of emergencies.

If the Zombie Apocalypse is unstoppable the Governments will Drop the Big Ones

By Big Ones I mean nukes. If there was all hope lost I am sure the governments would see this as the final solution.
Sans_the_Ander

Con

I'll start out by establishing the powers a zombie has. (source: http://zombies.monstrous.com...)

Zombies never sleep, and they are incapable of fatigue. Fatigue in the muscles is caused by a lactic acid build up. Zombies are incapable of producing this acid. Since they are incapable of producing lactic acid in the muscle tissue they feel no symptoms of fatigue.

Zombies are impervious to pain and require no air to breathe. The small portion of the brain which the parasite needs requires such a small amount of oxygen that simply by being in an environment where oxygen is present will suffice. This means, obviously, that a zombie can survive on land; however, this also means that a zombie can survive under water as water is one part oxygen.

They are thus immune to drugs, poisons, gases, extremes of temperature and pressure, high voltage electricity, suffocation, and drowning.

While not invulnerable to physical injury, zombies can suffer great damage to their bodies (including dismemberment) without being adversely affected. Dismembering the legs will render the zombie immobile, but the creature will still continue to subsist. Likewise, decapitation will incapacitate the body, but the head will still "live".

Zombies don’t possess any superhuman strength, nor do they have a night vision, characteristic usually common to undead monsters.

Zombies have no concept of fear. You cannot scare a zombie. The small amount of brain that they have does not process fear. A zombie will see you and feel the need to kill you without being intimidated by the number or the weapons


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Now I'll point out the flaws in my opponent's scenario.

How a Zombie Outbreak Cannot Expand

My opponent is basing this scenario on the assumption that only ONE person in ONE major city in only ONE country would start a zombie apocalypse. I looked up ways a person can become a zombie and was surprised when I came across this website that had an analysis of 5 scientific reasons a zombie apocalypse could really happen (http://www.cracked.com...) There's one that stood out above the rest. It has to do with brain parasites, or "toxoplasmosa gondii". You can read the details at the site, but basically it makes people really aggressive and insane. This is the kicker though - HALF OF THE HUMAN POPULATION ON EARTH IS INFECTED WITH TOXOPLASMOSA. So if something happened and changed the status of this dormant toxoplasmosa gondii and made it active, 1 out of every 2 humans would instantly become a zombie.

This causes a major problem with my opponent's scenario. The military in the US would be reduced to half its size, along with every single military around the world (because half of the human population on Earth becomes a zombie). And because the zombies would be spread over MANY cities, this already nearly impossible task of containing the zombies becomes simply impossible. Even if the military did contain zombies in a few cities, they would attack the barriers relentlessly. Fresh military humans = zombie lunch. And because zombies never get tired, can't feel fear, and can suffer extreme pain without stopping, they would most likely succeed in defeating the military.

People Know How to Kill Zombies

My opponent just says that everybody knows to kill zombies by shooting them in the head. But how many people could actually take a gun and shoot a zombie accurately in the head when the big, scary, smelly zombie is coming at you ready to bite your head off? The fear factor has to be taken into account here. People might say "yeah I would kill 100 zombies every day if a zombie apocalypse happens cuz I play Call of Duty", but if you took an actual real-life zombie and let it attack that person, I bet every single time that person would run away screaming like a girl.

Then my opponent says "Furthermore, people know how to avoid zombies to." .....Really? How?

Science May be Able to Make a Vaccination

"Now despite many movies depicted scientists as failing to find a vaccine who is not to day they very well could?"

Well, who's to say they very well couldn't? It's a lot less probable to find a vaccine then fail at finding a vaccine.

Weather and Terrain Would Assist in Stopping Zombies

If you look at the powers of a zombie, they can deal with extreme amounts of damage to their bodies without being affected. This disproves the weather point. In the middle of a blizzard, a normal human might think it's absolutely freezing, where a zombie would be thinking "food food food food food food food food". They don't care about the weather.

My opponent has a valid point in the terrain argument. Since a zombie brain is the size of a walnut, they do find problems with doors and walls. But if you look to the zombie powers again, they don't sleep. So zombies would have a TON of time to figure out another way around.

Underground Bunkers

OK so let's say the world becomes completely infested with zombies EXCEPT for the very small amount that escapes into underground bunkers. My opponent says that everyone will conveniently have "food to last them several lifetimes". This is unrealistic. I mean, the supplies are going to run out eventually. That means a team would have to be sent to get more food. This team would then have to face the huge amount of zombies running around. The chances for success are slim to none. If the team fails, more people would have to be sent, or everyone starves. Even if they succeed at finding supplies and returning safely, the supplies will once again run out, and eventually, there will be no other supplies to find above ground.

If the Zombie Apocalypse is Unstoppable the Governments will Drop the Big Ones

Yes, dropping nukes would surely eliminate a lot of zombies. But it would also eliminate any surviving humans above ground. And the nukes wouldn't kill every single zombie. So the zombies that survive would be exposed to radiation, and after a while, become immune to it. The radiation would also most likely mutate the zombies. So instead of just regular zombies, now there's radioactive mutated zombies. That's just swell. Nukes would not provide a solution.



I have found all of the flaws and explained why zombies would actually win in a global pandemic. Vote Con!

Debate Round No. 2
1Historygenius

Pro

A Zombie Outbreak Cannot Expand

"This causes a major problem with my opponent's scenario. The military in the US would be reduced to half its size, along with every single military around the world (because half of the human population on Earth becomes a zombie). And because the zombies would be spread over MANY cities, this already nearly impossible task of containing the zombies becomes simply impossible. Even if the military did contain zombies in a few cities, they would attack the barriers relentlessly. Fresh military humans = zombie lunch. And because zombies never get tired, can't feel fear, and can suffer extreme pain without stopping, they would most likely succeed in defeating the military."

Just because 50% of the world's population is infected does not mean we know which person in the population is infected. Does not mean that exactly 50% of the military is infected because we do not know which individuals are in the military. Also, I have actually found a cure for Toxoplasmosis ( Toxoplasmosa gondii is the protozoan). When happens is that the protozoan causes the the parasitic disease. So as long as the protozoan does not start anything, people are OK. There are acute and latent toxoplasmosis.

For acute use:
Pyrimethamine — an antimalarial medication.
Sulfadiazine — an antibiotic used in combination with pyrimethamine to treat toxoplasmosis.
Combination therapy is usually given with folinic acid supplements to reduce incidence of thrombocytopaenia. Combination therapy is most useful in the setting of HIV.
clindamycin
spiramycin — an antibiotic used most often for pregnant women to prevent the infection of their child.
(Other antibiotics such as minocycline have seen some use as a salvage therapy).

For latent use:
atovaquone — an antibiotic that has been used to kill Toxoplasma cysts inside AIDS patients.
clindamycin — an antibiotic which, in combination with atovaquone, seemed to optimally kill cysts in mice.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Furthermore, according to the exact source my opponent used (http://www.cracked.com...) said:

"All it takes is a more evolved version of toxoplasmosa, one that could to do us what it does to the rats."

But they do not explain if there has been an evolved version of toxoplasmosa, so its does not exist thus as of now it is impossible.

People know how to kill zombies

"My opponent just says that everybody knows to kill zombies by shooting them in the head. But how many people could actually take a gun and shoot a zombie accurately in the head when the big, scary, smelly zombie is coming at you ready to bite your head off?"

For every 100 citizens, 90 of them own guns in the United States. I am sure they are trained to fire a gun. Also, its not just guns. Chainsaws, baseball bats, swords, knifes, sledge hammers, and many other weapons can kill zombies. Also, we cannot forget vehicles. Bulldozers or semi trucks for example do a good job in running over zombies. I am sure these could also be effective. Yeah, I am sure some people may be nervous, but I am also sure they would want to survive.
(http://www.reuters.com...)

Science May be Able to Make a Vaccination

We already explained the disease my opponent is using does have a cure.

Weather and Terrain Would Assist in Stopping Zombies

There is more to it than just the effects of cold and hot. Lets say an avalanche happens and buries several hundred zombies under several feet of snow. Do you think they could get out? What about a tornado? That would tear zombies to shreds. While zombies may have plenty of time to think another route into a building, humans being fast thinkers would find ways to block those entrances faster than it takes a zombie to find a way in.

Underground Bunkers

I am pretty sure Government bunkers for politicians and the president have enough food for them to last for the rest of their life underground. That is the point of the bunker. As for Vivos, they have two bunkers: Community which can averagely take in 1,000 people and private which can fit in at least 8 people (the private ones also have the luxury of a wealthy yacht). A bonus is retrofitted cold war bunkers for over millions dollars. All you have to do is add as much food as you wish and there is plenty of room for canned goods and water. Now if you were serious in buying a bunker, wouldn't you be serious in making sure there was enough food? I have offered a video to explain more to.

If the Zombie Apocalypse is Unstoppable the Governments will Drop the Big Ones

There are 23,335 nukes in the world. Now all of them detonated would not destroy the entire world, but nuclear winter sets in killing all living things on Earth. Usually a zombie is dead, but technically the disease my opponent presented still has its beings alive thus they can die from nuclear winter while the remaining humans are safe in their bunkers.

http://wiki.answers.com...

#!
Sans_the_Ander

Con

I'll address the claim that there is a cure for toxoplasmosis first, and then address everything else.

"Also, I have actually found a cure for Toxoplasmosis (Toxoplasmosa gondii is the protozoan). When happens is that the protozoan causes the the parasitic disease. So as long as the protozoan does not start anything, people are OK."

Ok so right now we agree that toxoplasmosis does not cause people to become zombies in this present time. My argument in the previous round was based on IF an evolved version of this toxoplasmosis appears. My opponent said later in his first refutation

Furthermore, according to the exact source my opponent used (http://www.cracked.com......) said:

"All it takes is a more evolved version of toxoplasmosa, one that could to do us what it does to the rats."

"But they do not explain if there has been an evolved version of toxoplasmosa, so its does not exist thus as of now it is impossible."

You're right. It does not exist as of now. But that does not make it impossible. Zombie's aren't running around right now, that doesn't mean a zombie apocalypse is impossible. This whole debate is based of what COULD happen. And what COULD happen is that toxoplasmosis actually does evolve into a more serious zombie-causing infection. And if this happens, it's a whole other game when you try to find a cure. All the cures that exist right now for the not so serious toxoplasmosis would have to be thrown out the window, because

“The tremendous evolutionary potential of microbes makes them adept at developing resistance to even the most potent drug therapies and complicates attempts at creating effective vaccines.” – IOM 2003 (http://www.koshland-science-museum.org...)

So IF this toxoplasmosis does evolve, then the "cure" my opponent found does not apply.

"Just because 50% of the world's population is infected does not mean we know which person in the population is infected. Does not mean that exactly 50% of the military is infected because we do not know which individuals are in the military."

Ok I agree that there's no way of knowing if exactly 50% of the military will turn into a zombie if the toxoplasmosis is in fact the cause of the zombie apocalypse. I was just giving a general measurement to give an idea of what kind of impact the military would suffer. The point is that the numbers of the military would go WAY down if the toxoplasmosis evolves and causes this zombie apocalypse. Therefore the task of containing zombies in multiple cities, which is already a near impossible task even with the military at full strength, would become impossible.

"For every 100 citizens, 90 of them own guns in the United States. I am sure they are trained to fire a gun. Also, its not just guns. Chainsaws, baseball bats, swords, knifes, sledge hammers, and many other weapons can kill zombies. Also, we cannot forget vehicles. Bulldozers or semi trucks for example do a good job in running over zombies. I am sure these could also be effective. Yeah, I am sure some people may be nervous, but I am also sure they would want to survive."

First off make sure you take another look at my opponent's source (http://www.reuters.com......) The article doesn't say that 90 citizens out of 100 citizens own guns, it says that there are 90 GUNS for every 100 CITIZENS. The article just talks about how the US has a LOT of guns, not how many people own them. There's no general registration of guns in the US, so there are only estimates on the number of gun owners in the US. And those numbers go from as low as 76 million to as high as 120 million. (http://wiki.answers.com...) In 2011, there were 311,591917 people in the US (http://quickfacts.census.gov...) So even if you use the largest estimate for the number of gun owners in the US, it's less than half of the total population.

And if you still use the article my opponent used as a source (http://www.reuters.com......) it says that the US is the most armed country in the world. So all of the other countries throughout the world have LESS guns than the US.

So because 1) less than half of the population of the US owns a gun, and 2) all of the other countries have less guns than the US and in turn have even less gun owners than the US, then my argument still stands that, considering the infection spreading and turning half of the world's population into zombies (because it COULD happen with an evolved version of toxoplasmosis), only a very limited number of remaining humans would be successful in using guns to eliminate zombies.

Other weapons:
  • Chainsaws, baseball bats, swords, knives, sledgehammers, and any other hand-to-hand combat weapons - So you're telling me that after a zombie apocalypse happens people are going to become some hardcore zombie exterminator and go around chopping zombies to pieces? There's a factor to be figured in here - fear. Zombies are SCARY. If everyone was Chuck Norris, then these weapons would be extremely useful. But fear is a VERY powerful thing. All people have an instinctual response to danger. This response is known as fear, and it channels one's energies AWAY from potential danger and into safety. (http://en.wikipedia.org...)
  • Vehicles - Vehicles could be useful in running over zombies, but there are things to consider. What happens when you run out of gas? What if the vehicle breaks down? Then you're just an easy lunch for a hungry zombie.
People do have an instinct to survive, but fear has a big impact on a person and their actions. Because zombies do not feel ANY fear (see zombie powers from Round 2), they have a very large advantage over any normal human wanting to find them.

Also, my opponent has still not answered how humans know how to avoid zombies....

"We already explained the disease my opponent is using does have a cure."

I already explained that this debate is about what COULD happen, and IF the toxoplasmosis does evolve to turn people into zombies, there will be no cure for it, and a cure would be EXTREMELY difficult to find.

"There is more to it than just the effects of cold and hot. Lets say an avalanche happens and buries several hundred zombies under several feet of snow. Do you think they could get out? What about a tornado? That would tear zombies to shreds."

Of course natural disasters would tear zombies to shreds. It would tear normal humans to shreds too. But it's not like a tornado or an avalanche happens every single day. The number of zombies affected by these disasters would be very limited.

"While zombies may have plenty of time to think another route into a building, humans being fast thinkers would find ways to block those entrances faster than it takes a zombie to find a way in."

Yes humans can block entrances all day long. Until they have to sleep. Do zombies have to sleep? No. So they still have much more time to find alternative entrances. Even if humans were able to block EVERY SINGLE entrance, zombies have all the time in the day to try to get through those barriers. Zombies don't get tired either, so they wouldn't have to rest at all.

Underground Bunkers

Ok sure there are underground bunkers. It's still a big possibility that supplies will run out, but let's say everyone has enough supplies. We as humans hate being contained. There are many other scenarios that can draw people to the surface, like restlessness, checking on other family that didn't get a bunker, additional supplies (medicine, water, etc.). Or another scenario: zombies can stumble across bunker entrances and, being stupid, just decide to break in. What happens then? The idea of bunkers is not foolproof.

Nukes

Ok so nukes would also succeed in eliminating human life above ground, thus helping the zombie side. There's no way you can say that every single living thing will be wiped out by nukes. So zombies can still survive, and the ones that do survive would be mutated and filled with radiation. No bueno.

My arguments > opponent's

Vote CON
Debate Round No. 3
1Historygenius

Pro

Sadly, I must concede.
Sans_the_Ander

Con

Darn.... It was fun while it lasted! Thanks for the debate! Vote Con!
Debate Round No. 4
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by RinWindSan 5 years ago
RinWindSan
man c'mon. it doesn't matter if zombies are impossible or not. think outside the box. its a WHAT IF ordeal. even if you don't believe in something you could still be like, this is why humans won't stand a chance, or why they could. seriously. what's the point in debating if you can't think outside the perimeter of your own brain, or debate with an open mind, then what's the point?
Posted by 1dustpelt 5 years ago
1dustpelt
Com should have proved it is impossible for a zombie to exist, therefore humans cannot defeat something that does not exist.
Posted by Sans_the_Ander 5 years ago
Sans_the_Ander
Dang... I used all 8,000 characters lol
Posted by Sans_the_Ander 5 years ago
Sans_the_Ander
Lol
Posted by PeacefulChaos 5 years ago
PeacefulChaos
Pro should have used Con's picture in his argument, lol.
Posted by theazydebater 5 years ago
theazydebater
i would accept bring it
Posted by vmpire321 5 years ago
vmpire321
No specs on humans or zombies?

No statistics on the number of humans vs the number of zombies?

No clear time period?
Posted by frozen_eclipse 5 years ago
frozen_eclipse
this will be quite intresting......i would accept but im too lazy to formally develop a case right now...lol
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
1HistorygeniusSans_the_AnderTied
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Vote Placed by lannan13 5 years ago
lannan13
1HistorygeniusSans_the_AnderTied
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Vote Placed by Zaradi 5 years ago
Zaradi
1HistorygeniusSans_the_AnderTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Concede