The Instigator
BlackHomophobicAtheists
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
TimHawks
Con (against)
Winning
7 Points

Humans will be much better off if gays suppressed their homosexuality and had hetero sex only

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
TimHawks
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/29/2015 Category: Education
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 629 times Debate No: 81769
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (2)

 

BlackHomophobicAtheists

Pro

Gay sex is bad for the human species
TimHawks

Con

The primary evolutionary purpose of sex in all species on earth is for the purpose of procreation. There is, however, a strong secondary purpose of sex which has been developed as a result of human evolution. This secondary purpose is that sex is beneficial in the development of the human pair bond. As homosexuals are unable to find satisfaction in the development of a pair bond with the opposite sex, I would posit that denying them the ability to develop relationships which give them satisfaction could cause any of various psychiatric disorders and could lead to a general inability for them to function at full capacity within human society. Think, for example, if we had a very brilliant person who could end up curing cancer, but this person just happened to be a homosexual. Why would it be beneficial to humanity to deny this person the ability to develop a normal human pair bond as this could potentially distract that person from what would be very important research which could be performed for the betterment of humanity? You could make the argument that without this person being able to procreate, their genes could not be passed on perhaps preventing possible highly intelligent offspring from being introduce into the gene pool, but homosexuals are capable of procreation. Not every sexual act should be geared towards procreation as this would cause an increase in population that would over tax the available resources on earth. Homosexuals can still procreate either through the act of having heterosexual sex at least a few times in their lives for the purposes of procreation or by having their genetic material used through in vitro fertilization so that they can procreate.
Debate Round No. 1
BlackHomophobicAtheists

Pro

"This secondary purpose is that sex is beneficial in the development of the human pair bond"

This is highly subjective. It depends on the couple

Physical violence defeats the purpose of "bonding". Better yet, Fighting each other is the opposite of "bonding"

Study
"Domestic violence is likely more frequent for same sex couples"
The review was published Sept. 4 in the Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy. The first author is Colleen Stiles-Shields, a student in the clinical psychology Ph.D. program at Feinberg

"I would posit that denying them the ability to develop relationships which gives them satisfaction"

This is a subjective claim....it depends on the couple

Beating each other causing physical and emotional harm is not "satisfaction".. Some gay couples are better off not together.

Study
"Domestic violence is likely more frequent for same sex couples"
The review was . 4 in the Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy. The first author is Colleen Stiles-Shields, a student in the clinical psychology Ph.D. program at Feinberg.

" could cause any of various psychiatric disorders and could lead to a general inability for them to function at full capacity within human society."

Netherlands is the most pro gay nation on earth BUT gays have higher rates of mental disorders compared to heterosexuals in Netherlands

Same-sex sexual behavior and psychiatric disorders: findings from the Netherlands Mental Health Survey and Incidence Study (NEMESIS).
Sandfort TG1,

Therefore, whether gays have gay sex or not, gays still have higher rates of mental disorders .... in other words, having gay sex or not doesn't seem to determine the rate of mental disorders among homosexuals.

Better yet, not one study shows gays are more likely to have mental disorders in the most homophobic countries compared to the most gay friendly countries

Study: Biology Leaves gay men highly vulnerable to HIV
According to Unaids, if gay men stopped having gay sex and have vaginal sex only, their rates of HIV would decrease by 90%

According to unaids, Hiv is more common among gay men in all areas of the world including Africa"
http://health.usnews.com...

Gay and bisexual women have higher rates of bacterial vaginosis

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Lesbians are more likely to be depressed because semen is good for WOMENS' health and helps fight depression.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Gay women have higher rates of mental health issues including depression

https://www.lifesitenews.com...

Gay women are more likely to be overweight

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Gay women are more likely to develop breast cancer

Study shows women who get pregnant in their twenties decrease the risk of breast cancer. Gay women are less likely to get pregnant in their twenties and even less likely to get pregnant at all compared to heteroexual women.

http://www.breastcancer.org...

Gay men triggered the hiv epidemic
http://youtu.be...

Gay men brought back syphilis and triggered the syphillis epidemic after it was nearly eliminated
http://m.huffpost.com...

Half of all gay men in the largest city in South Africa are infected with HIV

http://mg.co.za...

Hiv is decreasing among heterosexuals but increasing alarmingly among gays

http://thewestsidestory.net...

In 2010, gays made up 72% of all new HIV infections

In 2013, gays made up 81% of all new HIV infections

http://www.cdc.gov...

In 2012, gays made up 84% of syphilis cases.

In 2013, gays made up 91% of syphilis cases

http://www.m.webmd.com...

Study: Biology Leaves gay men highly vulnerable to HIV
According to Unaids, Hiv is more common among gay men in all areas of the world including Africa"

http://health.usnews.com...

Shigella outbreak among gay and bisexual men

http://www.cdc.gov...

New drug resistant gonorrhea striking gay men
http://dailyxtra.com...

New Deadly meningitis striking gay men
http://americablog.com...

Hepatitis C rising among gay men
http://www.natap.org...

New flesh eating bacterial strain striking gay men
http://www.nytimes.com...

A rare disease, (Lymphograunuloma venereum) striking gay men
http://psychcentral.com...

A rare parasitic disease striking gay men
http://www.sciencedaily.com...

Sexually active Gay teens at a high risk of hpv. In other words, when gay teens act on their homosexual behavior, it's not good for them.
> > > > http://america.aljazeera.com...

High rates of hpv among gay men
http://mobile.aidsmap.com...

Anal cancer rising among gay men
http://www.m.webmd.com...

Study shows most women who are infected with hiv contracted it from a bisexual man
http://www.hivplusmag.com...
TimHawks

Con

I must compliment you. You are the first person I have debated on here to actually respond with legitimate arguments backed up with evidence. Now I will attempt to dig through those arguments.

Your first point that the secondary purpose is subjective. It is indeed subjective, but your argument was never whether or not I feel like homosexuals are responsible in their relationships thereby providing the necessary support required of a mutually constructive human pair bond. I only stated that sex can be beneficial in the development of a pair bond not that the bond, itself, was beneficial. In other words, if you deny someone the ability to have sex with those that they find attractive, it will be more difficult to develop a deeper interpersonal relationship with others. This does not mean that I am positing that this relationship that will be developed will be better for them, but it only means that without the ability to have sex, the relationship might not develop at all.

In terms of satisfaction, you have compared domestic violence among same sex couples to domestic violence among heterosexual couples. While it may be a true statement to say that heterosexual couples are finding a greater degree of satisfaction in their relationships as opposed to same sex couples, the real comparison here that should be made is whether or not same sex couples find a greater degree of satisfaction in their lives as opposed to homosexuals who are not involved in any homosexual relationships.

On the issue of mental disorders, again you have compared homosexuals to heterosexuals and I would posit that this is a fallacious argument. Homosexuals are not heterosexuals ergo the comparisons you have made are, literally, apples and oranges. The real question here should be whether or not homosexuals who are allowed to engage in homosexual acts have, in general, more or less psychological problems as compared to those who are denied to ability to engage in homosexual acts. You have stated that "not one study shows gays are more likely to have mental disorders in the most homophobic countries compared to the most gay friendly countries," but the lack of evidence of something is not evidence in itself. This could merely be because not enough research has been done. To offer this point as proof you would need to have a study which suggested that gays are either more likely or just as likely to have psychiatric problems in less homophobic countries when compared to more homophobic countries.

On the issue of AIDS, I cannot dispute your claim that gay men have a higher chance of contracting AIDS, but I would disagree with the assertion that if gay men were to somehow magically be made straight, that this would fix this problem. In fact, what is not being addressed here is that were we to assume that gay men could simply become straight, while their risk of contracting AIDS would decline, the risk to other groups would increase. This is based on simple mathematics. The reason that gay men are at a higher risk for contracting AIDS is merely statistical. Statistically speaking more gay men have AIDS when compared to other sexual groups. The reason that the risk to gay men would decrease if they were to no longer be gay is two fold. First of all the group containing gay men would now be absorbed by heterosexual men who already have a lower risk of contracting AIDS. The second reason that this would decrease their risk is that the gay men who have AIDS would no longer be infecting other men, but they would be infecting women thereby increasing the risk to women of contracting AIDS. This being the case, it would actually be of no benefit to humanity, in terms of the spread of AIDS, if gay men all became straight as the risk to humanity of contracting AIDS is statistical and would remain static.

On the issue of lesbians' mental health, there are also drugs that fight depression as well. Unless you can provide me with a source which proves that semen is more effective in fighting depression than the various medications we have, this is not a legitimate argument. This would be akin to saying that areas which do not have enough broccoli are more likely to starve to death while taking into no account that those areas have plenty of corn. The rest of your issues dealing with women's health do not offer any evidence that homosexual activity has caused these problems. These are, in fact, a logical fallacy know as post hoc ergo propter hoc. This means that you cannot make the assumption that because gay women have gay sex and are also more likely to be overweight that somehow the gay sex caused this to happen.

While it is true that the original epidemic of AIDS was spread, primarily, throughout the homosexual community, I would debate how you could ever offer evidence that proves that AIDS would not have spread throughout heterosexual communities at an equal rate if no gays had been around at that time. By this I mean that you cannot prove that the original vector of AIDS would not have spread just as far and wide if homosexuality did not exist. Also the issue with the increasing prevalence of AIDS in homosexual communities is logical when you consider the statistical evidence. Since more gays already have AIDS the fact that they are consistently contributing to a greater percentage of new infections is merely a result of their increased susceptibility. As I stated before, if we were to ban people from having homosexual sex and force them to have heterosexual sex, based on statistics, this would only increase the risk to all other sexual groups of contracting AIDS, and the overall risk of infection would remain static.

On the issue of syphilis, syphilis is curable, http://www.cdc.gov..., and as such bears no continuing threat to humanity. This being said, any arguments which state that gays are contributing to the spread of syphilis are completely invalid as syphilis can be cured.

As a final note, any of your arguments which note that gay men are at a higher risk for anything not sexually related are purely post hoc. Your other arguments which are sexually related can mostly be attributed to the fact that the primary vector in AIDS infected far more gays with AIDS than heterosexuals. Had the opposite been true, and had that primary vector liked the ladies a bit more, you would be arguing now that everyone needs to become gay to prevent the spread of AIDS. I will finish with this statement: The best way to prevent the spread of sexually transmitted diseases is the use of condoms and greater education on the affects of STDs.
Debate Round No. 2
BlackHomophobicAtheists

Pro

Stopping all gay sex will Eliminate or drastically decrease deadly stds which is better for humans compared to preventing a few gay people from being depressed .

In other words, protecting gay people's feelings is not worth deadly STDs causing even more depression, death, shame, sickness and pain. Also, gay people have higher rates of mental health issues whether they have gay sex or not.

Here's proof that gays literally stopped syphilis from being eliminated

"Dr. Gail Bolan, director of Centers for Disease Control's Division of STD Prevention, spoke at an event hosted by the National Coalition of STD Directors on April 23, 2015 on Capitol Hill. (CNSNews.com/Penny Starr)"

"We actually had some areas of the country that hadn"t seen a case of syphilis back to the late "90s and early 2000"s, and we thought we had a chance to eliminate this infection but we"re now challenged with this current epidemic," Bolan said.

"That epidemic is also spreading to the larger population, Bolan said, citing data that "reflects men who have sex with both men and women and that clearly has been slowly increasing since 2008."

"In California, Bolan said, there has been an increase in cases of ocular syphilis, which infects the eyes and can cause blindness"

Now, here is proof that gays triggered the HIV epidemic at least in the USA. If not worldwide

timeline of Aids - aids.org
https://www.aids.gov......

QUOTES

1981

"five young, previously healthy, gay men in Los Angeles. All the men have other unusual infections as well, indicating that their immune systems are not working; two have already died by the time the report is published. This edition of the MMWR marks the first official reporting of what will become known as the AIDS epidemic"

"In addition to reports of cases of PCP and other opportunistic infections among gay men, CDC also receives reports of a cluster of cases of a rare, and unusually aggressive, cancer, Kaposi"s Sarcoma, among a group of gay men in New York and California"

"Gay mens health Crisis Exit Disclaimer, the first community-based AIDS service provider in the U.S., is founded in New York City"

Search on youtube
"NBC'S earliest reports on aids 1982"
Quote
"The lifestyle of homosexual men have triggered an epidemic of a rare disease"

In the documentary "how we got gay", gays themselves admitted that gay liberation led to the HIV epidemic. The gays in this documentary even complained that the government was doing nothing about it because hiv was only infecting gays at the beginning of the epidemic...

In other words, more gay sex led to a deadly STD epidemic in which had a devastating impact on the entire human species.

YouTube search
"How we got gay" documentary

Since only gays were infected, bisexuals likely spreaded it to heterosexuals. It eventually infected people receiving blood donations and the drug addict population.

Copy, paste and Google
"NYC Women With Bisexual Partners Account for 3 in 4 HIV Diagnoses
A new study reports that in New York City, women are now more likely to contract HIV from a male partner who also has sex with men, than from using IV drugs or having sex with someone who does.
BY Diane Anderson-Minshall"

"Biology leaves gay men Highly vulnerable to HIV"
Quote
"The study authors estimate that if receptive anal intercourse were only as risky as vaginal intercourse, HIV cases would fall by 80 percent to 98 percent among gay and bisexual men over five years. They also estimate that cases would fall by 29 percent to 51 percent if more gay and bisexual men had sex in long-term relationships instead of casual encounters"

SOURCES: Chris Beyrer, M.D., MPH, director, Johns Hopkins Fogarty AIDS International Training and Research Program, Baltimore; Patrick Sullivan, DVM, Ph.D., associate professor, Rollins School of Public Health, Emory University, Atlanta; July 20, 2012, The Lancet, online

in case you mention that HIV problem in Africa, gays are afraid to admit that they are gay in most parts of Africa so therefore, it's impossible to obtain accurate statistics of the HIV rates of gays in Africa because gays in Africa pretend to be straight to avoid punishment.

However, there are a few African nations who don't criminalize homosexuality such as South Africa. a study shows nearly half of all gay men in the largest city in South Africa are infected with HIV.

http://mg.co.za...

Gay and bisexual women have higher rates of bacterial vaginosis

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Lesbians are more likely to be depressed because semen is good for WOMENS' health and helps fight depression.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Gay women have higher rates of mental health issues including depression

https://www.lifesitenews.com...

Gay women are more likely to be overweight

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Gay women are more likely to develop breast cancer

Study shows women who get pregnant in their twenties decrease the risk of breast cancer. Gay women are less likely to get pregnant in their twenties and even less likely to get pregnant at all compared to heteroexual women.

In conclusion,
I proved that the benefits of eliminating gay sex outweigh the benefits of continuing gay sex.
TimHawks

Con

Okay, so you have pretty much reposted the exact same argument that you used in round two, and I have already explained why much of this argument is either invalid or based upon logical fallacy. As such, I will make this easier for you to understand. Blacks are responsible for more violent crimes than are whites, and I will provide links to this information at the bottom of this post. Many would say that this is because of the fact that there are more blacks living in poverty and would point out other social issues which contribute to this problem. According to your view of the world, though, the best way to stop the violence in black communities, especially the black on black violence, would be to basically outlaw the African American subculture that exists in this country and force them all to act more white. By your argument, since whites commit less violent crimes, based on their percentage of the population, outlawing African American culture and forcing white culture on them would be of benefit to humanity. I would disagree with this, though, as there is no evidence that African American culture is responsible for an increase in violence among that community. Likewise, you cannot prove that homosexual activities are responsible for the increases in STDs and the various other negative affects you have listed. You can make the assertion that they are more prevalent in these communities, but as I have said, one of the reasons for the high prevalence of HIV in the homosexual community is that this was one of the first and primary groups that this disease hit. If any new disease infects a particular population, especially to the extent that HIV spread in homosexual communities, one would expect that this particular population would be responsible for the majority, and even an increasing majority, of new infections. This is simple mathematics. In short, you have proven your case that gays are more at risk for contracting certain diseases. You have proven your case that gays might have more psychological problems than other communities, but you have not been able to prove that this is an effect of homosexual sex. The only way that you could possibly prove this would be to take a test group of people who were once straight and decided later on that they were gay while keeping a control group of people who have always been straight and compare the two to prove that, after having decided that they were gay and engaging in homosexual sex, these people experienced an increase in the prevalence of sexually transmitted diseases, breast cancer, etc. As you have not listed a reference which has attempted this type of study, you cannot say that any of your points are not related to other issues. At best you can say that things look bad for the homosexual community, but you do not have proof as to why.

http://www.google.com...

http://www.chicagotribune.com...

http://www.zerohedge.com...
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by BlackHomophobicAtheists 1 year ago
BlackHomophobicAtheists
Con,

I will dumb it down for you

A behavior or emotions specific to the black race does not lead to violence

A behavior or emotions specific to homosexuals does lead to gay sex in which leads to STD epidemics
Posted by BlackHomophobicAtheists 1 year ago
BlackHomophobicAtheists
Homosexual desire is a part of being homosexual and homosexual desires prompts homosexual sex.

You gays are deceitful. You spewed a bunch of fallacies on the last round so i couldn't respond
Posted by TimHawks 1 year ago
TimHawks
You really are a troll. I'm done dude, and I will let whomever wishes to vote on this decide. Debating any further would be like debating with a child. You are completely wrong, and this is the last time I will say it. Having gay sex is not a requirement of being homosexual. One can be homosexual and abstinent if they so wish. Likewise blacks who do commit violent crimes also choose to do so. Both engaging in violent acts and engaging in a particular sexual relationship are behavioral decisions that one can make. Done arguing, though, as you clearly aren't intelligent enough to understand me or anyone. I do wonder how it feels to be so bigoted though.
Posted by BlackHomophobicAtheists 1 year ago
BlackHomophobicAtheists
con,

Here's proof that you spewed a faulty analogy

Violence is not requirement to be black

Homosexuality IS a requirement to be Homosexual

Violence is not a part of the definition of being the black race

Homosexuality is a part of being homosexual
Posted by BlackHomophobicAtheists 1 year ago
BlackHomophobicAtheists
Mentioning blacks and violence is a tu quoque Fallacy. It's also a deceitful attempt to use the black race as an attempt to gain sympathy. in other words, con is appealing to emotions in which is another fallacy

TU QUOQUE FALLACY
APPEALING TO EMOTIONS
FAULTY ANALOGY
SUBJECTIVE CLAIMS

The fact remains, the benefits of eliminating gay sex outweighs the benefits of continuing gay sex.

Eliminating and drastically decreasing deadly STD epidemics in which decreases pain, suffering, emotional stress, depression, are the benefits of eliminating gay sex.

Gays being happy with continuing syphilis and continuing a high health risk behavior in which is guaranteed to increase health problems among gays and continue STD epidemics for the entire human population are the benefits of gay sex. Gays will till have higher rates of mental disorders
Posted by TimHawks 1 year ago
TimHawks
The debate is over. It is too bad you didn't bring up anything like that during the debate. Unfortunately you are still wrong on your assumptions. The comparison was really between one problem experienced by one particular community and another experienced by another particular community. That is a fair analogy as you cannot prove how anyone is any more or less responsible for who they choose to beat to death than who they choose to have sex with. It is actually a very good analogy for anyone who knows anything about analogies. I find it unlikely that anyone will vote on this debate, as I have yet to see anyone vote on any debate that I have undertaken, but you should be glad that they won't vote. If anyone does decide to vote, I will annihilate you.
Posted by BlackHomophobicAtheists 1 year ago
BlackHomophobicAtheists
Con compared violence to a contagious disease. Comparing violence to a contagious disease is clearly a faulty analogy.

Con also fails to acknowledge that When gays triggered the HIV epidemic, it had a negative impact on the entire human species financially and emotionally.

Also, even though syphilis is curable, it doesn't change the fact that syphilis causes pain, suffering, sickness and emotional stress.
Posted by TimHawks 1 year ago
TimHawks
@miloisqueer While I did not actually say that it was beneficial, I believe that I did point to excessive population increase in my argument. Further I would state that while this guy has posted tons of negative things happening to homosexual populations, there are plenty of beneficial things going on in those populations as well. Typically any time someone wants to subdivide the population and look for negative things about a particular group to further their own bigotry, they can find those negative things. This is simply because no particular human population is perfect. It is a limit on humanity.
Posted by miloisqueer 1 year ago
miloisqueer
Homosexual sex is actually excellent for the human race. If the approximately 10 percent of Americans (not to mention those in other regions) were to have only heterosexual sex, then the population rates would shoot up exponentially--An unsustainable move in an already overpopulated world.
Posted by TimHawks 1 year ago
TimHawks
Actually, had I known that, I would not have debated him, but I would rather have simply read the previous debates. That said, I believe I am doing just fine at this debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Bosoxfaninla 1 year ago
Bosoxfaninla
BlackHomophobicAtheistsTimHawksTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con provided a much stronger argument and rebuked con's points. Pro seemed to ignore Con's argument and failed to rebuke his points.
Vote Placed by Peepette 1 year ago
Peepette
BlackHomophobicAtheistsTimHawksTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: After a sequence of references and quotes used to make his point, Pro failed to address Cons rebuttals.