The Instigator
Kylar
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
The-Voice-of-Truth
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Hymns vs Contemporary Christian Music

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
The-Voice-of-Truth
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/29/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,211 times Debate No: 69112
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (8)
Votes (1)

 

Kylar

Pro

Hey all :), Kylar the Christian here :). I have a very good debate here that I think people will find interesting. I am taking the pro side in favor of hymns and only hymns should be in the church today. I believe old hymns have better theolgy and deeper meaning than most Contemporary Christian music pieces, not all, but most. I want Con to explain why contemporary Christian music is a better fit for the church instead of old hymns.
Good luck! :).
First round: acceptance and opening statements.
The-Voice-of-Truth

Con

I gladly accept :D. I am looking forward to debating this. I am an advocate for Contemporary Christian music, but I also like the Hymns. I think this will be interseting.

Since my opponent has not made this clear, I will. BoP is even; both sides must prove their arguments.

Pro must prove that only hymns should be in the church today, and that Hymns have better theolgy and deeper meaning than most Contemporary Christian music pieces.

I, Con, must prove that Contemporary Christian music have the same theology and deep meaning as Hymns, and that Contemporary Christian music also should be used in church.

Let's have a good, fun, yet serious debate (as if I have to say that; Kylar is a good person).
Debate Round No. 1
Kylar

Pro

Thank you, my friend for accepting this debate with me. I am looking forward to it immensly. Let me open by saying that hymns are much more ancient than contemporary christian music. They are very deep in meaning, and have a lot of theolgy. For instance, the hymn Crown Him With Many Crowns has: Crown him the Lord of life, who triumphed o'er the grave, and rose victorious in the strife for those he came to save. This hymn and others are packed with scripture, and they have very well written symbolism that all points to Christ.
Thanks for the debate once again :). Let's see your side now, friend
The-Voice-of-Truth

Con

Ok. Let me start out by refuting.

Let me open by saying that hymns are much more ancient than contemporary christian music.

That is like me saying "Let me open by saying contemporary music is newer tham hymns". It is not a bad thing to say, but it does not support any of your claims. Now, I could say that since these songs are older, they are more traditional, and traditon is good, right? Yes, tradition is good, but how are low-key traditional songs supposed to capture the attention of people today that listen to music a lot like contemporary Christian music? That is just it, the traditonal stuff does not always capture the attention of the latest generation unless you have been raised in Church almost all of your life.

They are very deep in meaning, and have a lot of theolgy.

So does contemporary music. I will show this later.

For instance, the hymn Crown Him With Many Crowns has: Crown him the Lord of life, who triumphed o'er the grave, and rose victorious in the strife for those he came to save.

Yes, that Hymn is full of what scripture implies, and that song does have scripture in it. As I wil show later, contemporary music does this, too.

This hymn and others are packed with scripture, and they have very well written symbolism that all points to Christ.

They do not have to be packed with scripture to worship the Lord. They can restate scripture or summarize it. Contemporary music also uses very-well-written symbolism, as I will also show later.

Ok, now for the arguments:

The Hymn To God Be the Glory is about giving God glory and it tells of things he has done. Pleas note that i am using this as an example to support later arguments; this is in fact a Hymn:

Verse 1
To God be the glory, great things He hath done;
So loved He the world that He gave us His Son,
Who yielded His life an atonement for sin,
And opened the life gate that all may go in.

Refrain
Praise the Lord, praise the Lord,
Let the earth hear His voice!
Praise the Lord, praise the Lord,
Let the people rejoice!
O come to the Father, through Jesus the Son,
And give Him the glory, great things He hath done.

Verse 2
O perfect redemption, the purchase of blood,
To every believer the promise of God;
The vilest offender who truly believes,
That moment from Jesus a pardon receives.

(Refrain)

Verse 3
Great things He hath taught us, great things He hath done,
And great our rejoicing through Jesus the Son;
But purer, and higher, and greater will be
Our wonder, our transport, when Jesus we see.

(Refrain)

http://en.wikipedia.org...

That Hymn has a deep meaning and is very theological, but so does the next song, a Contemporary Christian song.

Alive is a song by one of my favorite bands, Hillsong (next to the Highpoint Church Worship Band, look them up on iTunes if you so desire). It is about a person's salvation, what God did for that person, and what God is to that person. This song uses symbolism, as Hymns do:

Hillsong Young & Free - Alive

I was lost with a broken heart
You picked me up, now I'm set apart
From the ash I am born again
Forever safe in the Saviour's hands
You are more than my words could say
I'll follow you Lord for all my days
I'll fix my eyes, follow in your ways
Forever free in your unending grace

'Cause You are, You are, You are my freedom
We lift you higher, lift you higher
Your love, Your love, Your love never ending
Oh oh oh

You are alive in us
Nothing can take your place
You are all we need
Your love has set us free

(Whoa)

In the midst of the darkest night
Let Your love be the shining light
Breaking chains that were holding me
You sent Your Son down and set me free
Everything of this world will fade
I'm pressing on till I see your face
I will live that Your will be done
I won't stop till Your Kingdom come

'Cause You are, You are, You are my freedom
We lift you higher, lift you higher
Your love, Your love, Your love never ending
Oh oh oh

You are alive in us
Nothing can take your place
You are all we need
Your love has set us free

(Whoa)

You are, You are, You are my freedom
We lift you higher
You are, You are, You are my freedom
We lift you higher, lift you higher
Your love, Your love, Your love never ending
Oh oh oh

You are alive in us
Nothing can take your place
You are all we need
Your love has set us free

(Whoa)

You are alive in us
Nothing can take you place
You are all we need
Your love has set us free

http://www.songlyrics.com...

As you can see, this song shows much about God's character and his nature. Thus, it is theological. Also note the use "From the ash I am born again" in the song. This is an example of symbolism; there are other examples of symbolosm in this song, too.

OK, you may say "That song does not have scripture, see?" Well, while that is correct, there are other songs that directly quote scripture for the majority of the song. Following this statement is a Contemporary Chior song:

Lyrics to Psalm 27

Verse:

Lift up your heads O ye gates,
be ye lifted up ye everlasting doors.

Lift up your heads O ye gates,
be ye lifted up ye everlasting doors.

And the King of glory shall come in.
And the King of glory shall come in.

Chorus 1:
Who is the King of glory,
the Lord strong and mighty.

Who is the King of glory,
the Lord, mighty in battle.

Who is the King of glory,
the Lord strong and mighty.

Who is the King of glory,
the Lord, mighty in battle.

Verse 2:
Tenors: Lift up your heads O ye gates...
Altos: lift up your heads O ye gates...
Sopranos: lift up your heads O ye gates...

Tenors: be ye lifted up ye everlasting doors...
Altos: be ye lifted up ye everlasting doors...
Sopranos: be ye lifted up ye everlasting doors.

And the King of glory shall come in.
And the King of glory shall come in.

Chorus 2:
Who is the King of glory,
the Lord strong and mighty.

Who is the King of glory,
the Lord, mighty in battle.

Who is the King of glory,
the Lord strong and mighty.

Who is the King of glory,
the Lord, mighty.

Vamp:
He is the Lord,
He is the Lord,
He is the Lord,
He is the Lord mighty in battle

http://www.lyricsmania.com...

If you go back and read Psalm 27, you will see that nearly all of the lyrics in this song are straight from that passage. Actual words of the Psalm will vary due to different versions of the Bible.


This has been Round 1. I apologize for not providing music videos for these songs, Youtube is blocked here at my school, but there are videos for all of these songs (if you want to hear them). I will withold any more arguments until otherwise needed. Back to you, Pro... :D
Debate Round No. 2
Kylar

Pro

Well, you made excellent arguments and I think you made a very good case :). And yes, Hillsong is very good at theology rich songs, as is Casting Crowns, Michael W. Smith and Mercy Me. Thanks again for this debate once again, my friend :).
Now for my arguments :D
Alright so let's look at what you have posted...

First of all, I commend you for the use of that grand Psalm 27 paraphrase and To God Be The Glory, and that Hillsong piece was excellent :).
I refute you with these words, friend.

Hymns carry much more meaning to people. They provide a lot of comfort, and they offer a lot, and I mean a lot of truth. They show you the gospel story in depth, granted, some ccm pieces have the same thing but Hymns that show much more.
For instance...the hymn When I Survey The Wondrous Cross, which I could post all the lyrics too and I will.
  1. When I survey the wondrous cross
    On which the Prince of glory died,
    My richest gain I count but loss,
    And pour contempt on all my pride.
  2. Forbid it, Lord, that I should boast,
    Save in the death of Christ my God!
    All the vain things that charm me most,
    I sacrifice them to His blood.
  3. See from His head, His hands, His feet,
    Sorrow and love flow mingled down!
    Did e’er such love and sorrow meet,
    Or thorns compose so rich a crown?
  4. Were the whole realm of nature mine,
    That were a present far too small;
    Love so amazing, so divine,
    Demands my soul, my life, my all.
See this hymn outlines the gospel quite well, and it has great truths, that some ccm music does not have. This ccm piece is a good exzample of that:
Let mercy flow in the depths of my soul
Like a river of life restore and reconcile

Flow river flow flow river flow
Flow river flow flow river flow
Spirit move in us

Open heaven flood our hearts
Grace and mercy from above
Father hear us as we cry out
We cry out river flow river flow
We cry out river flow river flow
We cry out river flow river flow
We cry out river


Change is gonna come change is gonna come
Spirit move in us

It's like a flood Your river flows
It's rising up Your river flows
It's like a flood Your river flows
It's rising up

Joy is on its way joy is on its way
Spirit move in us

This song has very little in it, and I detect very little theolgoy. Only hymns can truly show the truths of the gospel.
Thanks again for this debate :)
The-Voice-of-Truth

Con

Good arguments, but I must now refute, my friend.

Time for refuting.


Hymns carry much more meaning to people.

Unless you can support your first sentence, I will claim it as a void, unsupported argument. Yes, as I stated in my first posting, it is traditonal, but that does not mean that it means more to people.

They provide a lot of comfort, and they offer a lot, and I mean a lot of truth.

Yes, it is true that Hymns provide a lot of comfort and truth. So does contemporary Christian music, as I will show you later.

They show you the gospel story in depth, granted, some ccm pieces have the same thing but Hymns that show much more.

So does contemporary Christian music. As you even said, some contemporary songs do, but it is more than just some; it is many. I will show you this later.

Only hymns can truly show the truths of the gospel.

Not true. I will show you by posting songs relating and showing the truths of the Gospel. I will not provide lyrics this time, but I will cite my source so you can find these song titles and enter them into Google or another search engine and find the lyrics, and then listen to them if you would like.

Ok, now for the arguments:

[They show you the gospel story in depth, granted, some ccm pieces have the same thing but Hymns that show much more.

So does contemporary Christian music. As you even said, some contemporary songs do, but it is more than just some; it is many. I will show you this later.]


There are many contemporary christian songs that depict the Gospels; they describe the Life, Death, and Resurrection of Christ. Following are examples, although I will provide the lyrics for one each:


Songs that Depict the Gospels:

Christ's Death/Crucifiction:
Didn't He - Randy Matthews - Son of Dust
Feel the Nails - Ray Boltz - The Altar
He Died - Sacred Warrior - Rebellion
Immaculate Murder - A Plea For Purging - Depravity (metalcore, 2009)
It Is Done - Mastedon - Lofcaudio
It Is Finished - Petra - Beat The System
Not Just Any Other Day - John Elefante - Corridors
Once And For All - White Heart - Highlands (1993)
The Cross (Three Hours) - Shai Linne - Atonement
The Hammer - Ray Boltz - The Altar
The Sacrifice - Wayne Watson - New Lives for Old
The Killing - The Violet Burning - Chosen
This Is Love - Kutless - Believer (2012)
This Is What He Went Through - SFC (rap)
Watch the Lamb - Ray Boltz - Moments from the Heart
Upon Your Hill - Seven Places - Hear Us Say Jesus (2004)
Sacrificed - Overcome - Blessed are the Persecuted (hardcore)
Thorns - Demon Hunter - Storm the Gates of Hell
Watch the Lamb - Ray Boltz - Moments from the Heart
Watching, Waiting - Extreme - Extreme
When You Walked up That Hill - Rick Alitzer - Blue Plate Special
Written in the Scars - Gary Chapman - Light Inside, Shelter
You're Still on His Mind - Mylon LeFevre - Mylon

Christ's Life:
Stranger - Holy Soldier - Holy Soldier
The Answer - Stryken - First Strike
Whatcha Gonna Do With the Cross - Transformation Crusade - Makin' It Happen (rap, 1991)

Christ's Resurrection:
Easter Song - Keith Green - For Him Who Has Ears To Hear
He's Alive - Don Francisco - Forgiven
Mary - Dana Key - Part of the Mystery
My Redeemer Lives Mark Heard - At The Foot Of The Cross; High Noon
The Answer - MyChildren MyBride - Unbreakable (metalcore, 2008) The Champion - Carman - The Champion
The Messiah - Bloodgood; Tourniquet - Detonation; Intense Live
The Victor - Keith Green - No Compromise
That's How Much - Kathy Troccoli - Sounds Of Heaven (pop)

There are many more, but I did not want to use up my whole character count. :3

[They provide a lot of comfort, and they offer a lot, and I mean a lot of truth.

Yes, it is true that Hymns provide a lot of comfort and truth. So does contemporary Christian music, as I will show you later.]


There are also many contemporary Christian songs that provide a lot of truth and comfort:

Songs that Provide a lot of Truth and Comfort:

Coming Home/Prodigal Son:
All In My Head - Seven Places - Hear Us Say Jesus
Already Home - Thousand Foot Krutch - Welcome To The Masquerade
Back in His Arms - Mark Schultz - Song Cinema
Baptized in Fire - Corpus Christi - The Darker Shades Of White
Breaking Away - Seventh Day Slumber - Finally Awake (rock, 2007)
Come Back Home - Kutless - Believer (2012)
Coming Down Is Calming Down - Underoath - Lost In The Sound Of Separation (2008)
Down with the Ship - Seven Day Jesus
Empty - Building 429 - Rise
Falling For You - Leeland - Opposite Way (2008)
Falling Over - Disciple - Back Again
Go Ahead - Fireflight - Unbreakable
Hold Me In Your Arms - John Elefante - Windows of Heaven
Hole in my Hand - Day of Fire - Cut and Move
Home Again - PFR - Pray for Rain
I Miss the Rain - Bride - Snakes in the Playground (metal ballad, 1993)
I Found My Way Back Again - Nevertheless - In the Making... (2008)
I Want You Back in my Life - ETW - ETW; Ain't Nobody Dyin' But Us (rap)
I Won't Run Away - Ashes Remain - What I've Become
If I Could See - Haste the Day - When Everything Falls
It's Me - Nevertheless - Live Like We're Alive (2006)
Learning To Fall - This Beautiful Republic - Perceptions
Let It Out - Pillar - Where Do We Go From Here (2004)
Never Be The Same - Red - Innocence & Instinct
On My Way Home - Seventh Day Slumber - Finally Awake (rock, 2007)
Passionate Man - Geoff Moore & the Distance - Pure and Simple
Pieces - Red - End Of Silence
Prodigal - Casting Crowns - Lifesong
Prodigal - Send the Beggar/Christine Glass - Send the Beggar (pop rock)
Quick Time - Six Feet Deep - The Road Less Traveled (hardcore, 1996)

Losing A Loved One:
Can't Cry Hard Enough - Susan Ashton - Closer (country, 1999)
Cries of the Past - Underoath - Cries of the Past (black metal, 2000)
Farewell - Kids in the Way - Love Hate Masquerade
Healing Oil - Crystal Lewis - Beauty for Ashes
He's Watching - Al Denson
I'm Crying - Allies - Man With A Mission
I Miss You, Dad - John P. Kee - Just Me This Time (gospel)
Long Hard Road - Russ Taff
Home Free - Wayne Watson - Home Free
Mama - The Katinas - The Katinas
My Father's Crown - Charlie Peacock
One More Time - Terry Scott Taylor - Knowledge and Innocence
Say Goodbye - Bloodgood - All Stand Together (metal ballad; 1991)
Say Goodnight - This Beautiful Republic - Perceptions
Save a Place for Me - Matthew West
Sweet Memories - Sacred Warrior - Wicked Generation (metal, 1990)
Tell Me How to Say Goodbye - Michael W. Smith
Treasure of the Broken Land - Mark Heard
Tribute - Dogwood - Through Thick and Thin
Tuesday Mourning - Holy Soldier - Last Train (metal ballad)
Two Twenty Nine - Brave Saint Saturn - So Far From Home
Until the Lights Go Out - Al Denson (pop)
When I Look at You - Kathy Troccoli - Corner of Eden (pop)
Why - Disciple - What Was I Thinking
With Hope - Steven Curtis Chapman - Speechless
Yesterdays - Switchfoot - Oh! Gravity


There are many, many more ccm songs that provide truth and comfort. But alas! I have a character limit.

[They provide a lot of comfort, and they offer a lot, and I mean a lot of truth.


Yes, it is true that Hymns provide a lot of comfort and truth. So does contemporary Christian music, as I will show you later.
]

Here is a song by Fernando Ortega that provides a lot of comfort. This one is probably my favorite encouragement/comfort song, as it helped me through my some really hard times in my life:

TAKE HEART MY FRIEND ------ Fernando Ortega

Take heart my friend, we'll go together.
This uncertain road that lies ahead.
Our faithful God has always gone before us,
And He will lead the way once again.

Take heart my friend, we can walk together.
And if our burdens become too great,
We can hold up and help one another
In God's love, in God's grace.

Take heart my friend, the Lord is with us
As He has been all the days of our lives.
Our assurance every morning,
Our defender in the night

If we should falter when trouble surrounds us,
When the wind and the waves are wild and high,
We will look away to Him who rules the waters,
Who spoke His peace into the angry tide

He is our comfort, our sustainer.
He is our help in time of need.
And when we wander He is our shepherd.
He who watches over us, never sleeps

Take heart my friend, the Lord is with us
As He has been all the days of our lives.
Our assurance every morning,
Our defender in the night.

Take heart my friend, the Lord is with us
As He has been all the days of our lives.
Our assurance every morning,
Our defender in the night .

If this is not comfort, I don't know what is. I mean "Take heart my friend, the Lord is with us
as He has been all the days of our lives" is VERY comforting. Also, this song is very true (like many other ccm songs) because God is with us, no matter what. I would like to post more, but I am dreadfully near my character limit.

Here is another song that provides comfort and truth by Skillet:

FORGIVEN ----- Skillet

Forgive me now 'cause I have been unfaithful
Don't ask me why 'cause I don't know
So many times I've tried but was unable
This heart belongs to you alone

[Chorus:]
Now I'm in our secret place
Alone in your embrace
Where all my wrongs have been erased
You have forgiven

All the promises and lies
All the times I compromise
All the times you were denied
You have forgiven

Forgive me I'm ashamed, I've loved another
I can't explain 'cause I don't know
No one can take your place and there is no other
Forever yours and yours alone

[Chorus:]
Now I'm in our secret place
Alone in your embrace
Where all my wrongs have been erased
You have forgiven

All the promises and lies
All the times I compromise
All the times you were denied
You have forgiven

I get down on my knees
Feel your love wash over me
There will never be another
You're the only one forever
And you know, I'm yours alone

[Chorus:]
I'm in our secret place
Alone in your embrace
Where all my wrongs have been erased
You have forgiven

All the promises and lies
All the times I compromise
All the times you were denied
You have forgiven

You have forgiven
Forgiven, forgiven
Forgiven, forgiven
Forgiven, forgiven
Forgiven.

This has been round 2. Thanks for reading. Back to you Pro.... :D

Debate Round No. 3
Kylar

Pro

Good grief my friend you made a very solid case. I am almost tempted to run out of ideas, but I can't do that.
I will now refute you, but first thank you again for a great debate :).
Hymns offer much deeper sense of scripture. The majority of ccm pieces that I have seen do not reference a scripture at all.
The hymns also offer a very deep sense that shows the heart of the writer, and they truly reveal the heart of Christianity. Hymns also show the depth of the gospel and the entire bible itself. Now I grant you some CCM pieces, like Keith Green's do just that, I admit that :).
Be that as it may, hymns have a broader depth of things...I call out this one, a Wesleyan hymn: Hail the day that sees him rise
Hail the day that sees Him rise, Alleluia!
To His throne above the skies, Alleluia!
Christ, awhile to mortals given, Alleluia!
Reascends His native heaven, Alleluia!

There the glorious triumph waits, Alleluia!
Lift your heads, eternal gates, Alleluia!
Christ hath conquered death and sin, Alleluia!
Take the King of glory in, Alleluia!

Circled round with angel powers, Alleluia!
Their triumphant Lord, and ours, Alleluia!
Conqueror over death and sin, Alleluia!
"Take the King of glory in! Alleluia!"

Him though highest Heav"n receives, Alleluia!
Still He loves the earth He leaves, Alleluia!
Though returning to His throne, Alleluia!
Still He calls mankind His own, Alleluia!

See! He lifts His hands above, Alleluia!
See! He shows the prints of love, Alleluia!
Hark! His gracious lips bestow, Alleluia!
Blessings on His church below, Alleluia!

Still for us His death He pleads, Alleluia!
Prevalent He intercedes, Alleluia!
Near Himself prepares our place, Alleluia!
Harbinger of human race, Alleluia!

Master, (will we ever say), Alleluia!
Taken from our head to day, Alleluia!
See Thy faithful servants, see, Alleluia!
Ever gazing up to Thee, Alleluia!

Grant, though parted from our sight, Alleluia!
Far above yon azure height, Alleluia!
Grant our hearts may thither rise, Alleluia!
Seeking Thee beyond the skies, Alleluia!

Ever upward let us move, Alleluia!
Wafted on the wings of love, Alleluia!
Looking when our Lord shall come, Alleluia!
Longing, gasping after home, Alleluia!

There we shall with Thee remain, Alleluia!
Partners of Thy endless reign, Alleluia!
There Thy face unclouded see, Alleluia!
Find our heaven of heavens in Thee, Alleluia!

In CCM pieces you do not see this...for instance...

Lord, I come, I confess
Bowing here I find my rest
Without You I fall apart
You're the One that guides my heart

Lord, I need You, oh, I need You
Every hour I need You
My one defense, my righteousness
Oh God, how I need You

Where sin runs deep Your grace is more
Where grace is found is where You are
And where You are, Lord, I am free
Holiness is Christ in me

Lord, I need You, oh, I need You
Every hour I need You
My one defense, my righteousness
Oh God, how I need You

Teach my song to rise to You
When temptation comes my way
And when I cannot stand I'll fall on You
Jesus, You're my hope and stay

Lord, I need You, oh, I need You
Every hour I need You
My one defense, my righteousness
Oh God, how I need You

You're my one defense, my righteousness
Oh God, how I need You
My one defense, my righteousness
Oh God, how I need You
by Matt Maher
Great song, but unlike the hymn, it does not have a depth that totally references scripture.
This has been my 4th round
Thank you again for an enjoyable debate so far my friend :)
The-Voice-of-Truth

Con

Al right, time to refute.

Refute!!!


Hymns offer much deeper sense of scripture.

I will treat this statement as void. There is no source cited or evidence used to support it.

The majority of ccm pieces that I have seen do not reference a scripture at all.

Again, I would like more proof (I think you meant to say "except for the Psalm 27 and Keith Green).

The hymns also offer a very deep sense that shows the heart of the writer, and they truly reveal the heart of Christianity.

CCM also does this. Plus, the heart of the writer does not really matter when it comes to whether or not only hymns should be sung in church.

Hymns also show the depth of the gospel and the entire bible itself. Now I grant you some CCM pieces, like Keith Green's do just that, I admit that.

Like you said, some ccm do, but it is not just some. I will show you.

Arguments!!!

Here are ccm songs that have scriputre in them:

SANCTIFIED ----- MercyME
Let there be no condemnation

For all who're fully known in Christ
Unspeakable grace for all the nations
By way of holy sacrifice

We worship with the sound of broken shackles falling to the ground

Sanctified I have been set free
Grace divine has swept me off my feet

No greater love has ever been known
Than He who came to find the lost
No greater sacrifice has been shown
Than He who laid upon the cross

Let all creation sing for He has come and He's changed everything

Sanctified I have been set free
Grace divine has swept me off my feet
Grace divine has swept me off my feet

And I know that I will never be the same
And I know that I will never be the same
And I know that I'll never be the same
And I know that I'll never be the same

Sanctified I have been set free
Grace divine has swept me off my feet

And I know that I will never be the same
And I know that I'll never be the same
And I know, yes I know, I will never same
Hallelujah

The above song comes from Romans 8:1.




BEAUTIFUL THINGS ------ Gungor
All this pain
I wonder if I'll ever find my way
I wonder if my life could really change at all
All this earth
Could all that is lost ever be found
Could a garden come up from this ground at all

You make beautiful things
You make beautiful things out of the dust
You make beautiful things
You make beautiful things out of us

All around
Hope is springing up from this old ground
Out of chaos life is being found in You

You make beautiful things
You make beautiful things out of the dust
You make beautiful things
You make beautiful things out of us

You make beautiful things
You make beautiful things out of the dust
You make beautiful things
You make beautiful things out of us

You make me new, You are making me new
You make me new, You are making me new
You are making me new

You make beautiful things
You make beautiful things out of the dust
You make beautiful things
You make beautiful things out of us

You make beautiful things
You make beautiful things out of the dust
You make beautiful things
You make beautiful things out of us

You make me new, You are making me new
You make me new, You are making me new

The above song comes from Matthew 12:35 and Luke 6:45.



LORD OF ALL ------ Kristian Stanfill
Verse 1
wonder and awe surround You Lord
glory and fire light Your way
day after day the heavens proclaim
the beauty of the holy One
we will respond, with joy in our song
Your enemies rise, Your enemies fall
Your fire consumes them all

Chorus
there is none so high and holy
King of kings the one and only
You are adored, You are the Lord of all

Verse 2
mysteries unknown are known to You
all wisdom is Yours to reveal
You hold in Your hands, the days of all men
all life and breath is Yours to give
Your enemies rise, Your enemies fall
Your fire consumes them all

Bridge
we adore You, we adore You
Lord of all the earth
Lord we love You, Lord we Love You
let our hearts be pure oh Lord

This song comes from Psalm 50:6; Psalm 97:6; Isaiah 47:14; Genesis 41:39; John 1:14; John 1:18; Numbers 11:16; Psalm 119:168; and Acts 17:25.

http://wordtoworship.com...

These few songs here either refute or make CCM equal to all of my opponent's given points

Now, let me raise a point. Many people of the current generations are not Christian, and many of them have had little or no exposure to the Church and its music. Which would capture and hold the attention of an unbiased audience better? Many of the people in the current generations are attracted to songs that have a fast-paced adn fun beat with modern instruments. They will not be as attracted to traditional music, with older and more complex words as well as a more solemn mood; they like things closer to what they are used to.

For exmple, the band Skillet has a huge following (I apologize, I could nto find any reliable sources for an actual figure). Why is this? They are a Christian band, but many secular people follow them and recieve the message in Skillet's songs. They follow Skillet becuase they are attracted to the genre.

I will show 2 songs. One will be a hymn, the other a Skillet song. Which is more attracting to the modern person?

TO GOD BE THE GLORY ----- Fanny J. Crosby
To God be the glory, great things he has done;

so loved he the world that he gave us his Son,
who yielded his life an atonement for sin,
and opened the lifegate that we may go in.

Refrain:

Praise the Lord, praise the Lord; let the earth hear his voice!
Praise the Lord, praise the Lord; let the people rejoice!
O come to the Father through Jesus the Son,
and give him the glory; great things he has done.

O perfect redemption, the purchase of blood,
to every believer the promise of God;
the vilest offender who truly believes,
that moment from Jesus a pardon receives.

Refrain

Great things he has taught us, great things he has done,
and great our rejoicing through Jesus the Son;
but purer and higher and greater will be
our wonder, our gladness, when Jesus we see.

Refrain

The above song is the Hymn To God Be the Glory.

RELENTLESS ----- Hillsong
Salvation sounds a new beginning
As distant hearts begin believing
Redemption's bid is unrelenting

Your love goes on
Your love goes on

You carry us
Carry us
When the world gives way
You cover us
Cover us
With your endless grace

Your love is relentless
Your love is relentless
Your love is relentless
Your love is relentless

The time is up for chasing shadows
You gave the world a light to follow
A hope that shines beyond tomorrow

Your love goes on
Your love goes on

You carry us
Carry us
When the world gives way
You cover us
Cover us
With your endless grace

Tearing through the veil of darkness
Breaking every chain
You set us free
Fighting for the furthest heart
You gave your life for all to see

Tearing through the veil of darkness
Breaking every chain
You set us free
Fighting for the furthest heart
You gave your life

Your love is relentless
Your love is relentless
Your love is relentless
Your love is relentless

The above song is Relentless, by Hillsong, a contemporary Christian church group.


Which do you think is more appealing to the unbiased person that is unexposed to Christian music? You see, this is why ccm should be in churches; today's generations like this kind of music.


This has been round Round 3. Thank you all for reading, and thanks for the debate brah! Back to you Pro.... :D

http://www.hymnary.org...


http://www.songlyrics.com...;

http://wordtoworship.com...

Debate Round No. 4
Kylar

Pro

Excellent arguments and thank you my friend once again for a great debate :). This has been a very good debate so far.
I will now refute your arguments courteously and respectfully as I have done the last 4 rounds :). Alright let's begin.
You put forth very God-inspired artists forward, and MercyMe, Kutless, Michael W. Smith, Chris Tomlin, Newsboys and Matt Maher do a beautiful job of making modern day hymns-packed with scripture. I admit that 100%.

I beg to differ however, on the subject of people nowadays preffering the contempoary Christian music now in the majority of churches. The Baptist, Catholic, Episcoplaian Lutheran, Methodist, Presbytarian and Assembly of God Churches even the Seventh Day Adventists still use hymns regularly and almost if not every Sunday. Granted, there are some denominations like the Reformed Church in America and even the majority of the Pentecostal Churches prefer worship bands and ccm on a regular basis. I am a Southern Baptist Reformed member by affiliation, and we use ccm and hymns in a mixture. However, I believe that people for the most part prefer the old hymns.

The old hymns of faith carry a far reaching meaning throughout the church of Christ. Not only that, but they are ancient, and living and sharp. The CCM music of today is new and is not yet as deep and as ancient as the old hymns. The hymns offer much deeper theolgy and they show the truths of God's word in a majestic and new light.

I rest my case for this debate :).
Thank you so much my friend for an enjoyable awesome debate, I learned a lot.
The-Voice-of-Truth

Con

Alrighty. Let's cut to the chase.
Refutes:

I beg to differ however, on the subject of people nowadays preffering the contempoary Christian music now in the majority of churches. The Baptist, Catholic, Episcoplaian Lutheran, Methodist, Presbytarian and Assembly of God Churches even the Seventh Day Adventists still use hymns regularly and almost if not every Sunday. Granted, there are some denominations like the Reformed Church in America and even the majority of the Pentecostal Churches prefer worship bands and ccm on a regular basis. I am a Southern Baptist Reformed member by affiliation, and we use ccm and hymns in a mixture. However, I believe that people for the most part prefer the old hymns.


I was not saying that the churches and the people within them like ccm more, I was saying that the unbiased, unexposed person would much prefer it; I should know, I live, mingle, and associate with people like this. I know that many of those churches use hymns; mine still does.

The old hymns of faith carry a far reaching meaning throughout the church of Christ. Not only that, but they are ancient, and living and sharp. The CCM music of today is new and is not yet as deep and as ancient as the old hymns. The hymns offer much deeper theolgy and they show the truths of God's word in a majestic and new light.

CCM and hymns have the same goal, same meaning, but not the same tune. The tune is really the only difference between the two. Hymns being ancient have nothing to do with the topic; again, that is liek me saying "Contemporary music is new." CCM is just as deep. From what I have seen from the hymns and CCM songs that we have been using in this debate, they are practically saying the same exact thing with a different beat and style and in different words. I like the contradiction in your statement. I one place, you say that hymns are ancient (old), yet in the last sentence you say that hymns "show the truths of God's word in a majestic and new light." As for the theolgy, both show the same amount. Both Hymns and CCM show different aspects and characteristics of the same God in a different way. Theologically, they are the same.

I rest my case for this debate :).

I do the same.

This has been Round 4. Thanks Kylar for hosting this debate, I enjoyed doing this. Thank you all who have read this debate, and thanks to all that vote honestly and not based off of what they think....

.... :D

Debate Round No. 5
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by NNEye 2 years ago
NNEye
89 days? Wow.
Posted by The-Voice-of-Truth 2 years ago
The-Voice-of-Truth
My bad on when I said that I would show a Skillet song. I forgot to change it to Hillsong.
Posted by The-Voice-of-Truth 2 years ago
The-Voice-of-Truth
Don't give away my plans; that comes next round. >:D
Posted by NNEye 2 years ago
NNEye
I would have taken a far more direct route.
Posted by 21MolonLabe 2 years ago
21MolonLabe
I would have loved to debate this.
Posted by The-Voice-of-Truth 2 years ago
The-Voice-of-Truth
Aw, screw it. I accept!
Posted by The-Voice-of-Truth 2 years ago
The-Voice-of-Truth
I wanna accept. What is the amount of time to post?
Posted by NNEye 2 years ago
NNEye
I'd like to see how this turns out.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by ColeTrain 1 year ago
ColeTrain
KylarThe-Voice-of-TruthTied
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Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Though I agree with Pro's position (Hymns), I must cast my vote in favor of Con. The simple reason boils down to better explanation and convincing arguments when refuting and also making claims. One suggestion, however, for the Pro side is to not simply focus on scripture as extensively as you did. One big problem with contemporary Christian music is the background. The singing and words can (sometimes) be fine, even good, but the depth and meaning of the words is diluted. This is primarily due to the distractions caused by loud band music and a pounding beat. This does not exist in traditional hymns, and one can better focus on the words and the meanings rather than simply the pleasure of hearing good music. I hope that makes sense. Criticisms aside, great job to both of you! :)