The Instigator
GodSands
Pro (for)
Losing
49 Points
The Contender
Tatarize
Con (against)
Winning
63 Points

I Challenge Again On God's Existence -- God Exists And People Need To Know That

Do you like this debate?NoYes+2
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/30/2009 Category: Education
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,256 times Debate No: 6702
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (23)
Votes (17)

 

GodSands

Pro

Again another argument on God's existence. But I will not stop debating the truth. Atheists love these debates on God's existence because they want to know more of God.

You treat it like God does not exist. Because you say there is no God. But why do you? You do not know.

When you understand the concept of God is it upsetting, once you get the concept you hate sin, and because of the truth you are aware of the punishment which is hell. This is so destressing in that you know you can save people, you are saying the right words and your lips are in the right place, yet people hate what you say. This reason, because I know the punishment it makes me want to rip knots from my head. And I just crindge in dispare. Yet I only feel a ounce of Gods anger and only sediments of God's anguish. When I do one to one evangelism, my heart beats faster and everytime I have a person focused, I see my reflection on their face. My feelings are no longer just mune to me. I am dead serious when I speak of God because I know I am right.

I understand that when God is mentioned, what I say will be less "proofing" as because us the word god all the time when they do not mean it. Such as, "God knows." Yes God does know, but when say God with no thought it makes it like people do not speak of God seriously, when they really are.

When I mention God I mean the ultimate being which is the sourse of life and the structure of the universe and everything within it. What is a bottle with out the structure? None existent is the answer. With out a causewhere is anything? With out anything to contain liquid, where is liquid? With no water where is life?

God must exist, it does not matter how you picture God, (In a honourable fashion) it changes nothing of God's existence. If you picture God as none existence, then you hate God like the Devil does. As you were to think of little of God, but there is still a God figure in your mind.

1) I can not convinse you that God exists through science as God is far beyond science. - It is impossible to proof God through the works of science, however you can easliy suggest God exists through science because there is intelligents in the universe, and if you think evolution is occuring then the force of evolution is intelligent. Just not the design, even though it is we classify it as, "A natural cause." Or an "Accident" I could not care what you think, if there is no God then the universe is a accident. Because ther is no God to plan the universe. Adding that when some body calls you an accident, no doubt you will feel effense. The reason is, because you are not, instead have been well designed and suited for your time and place. No body ever to exist can play your part on earth like you can. This though is destroyed by sin such as being drunk, homosexual, sexualily active and doubtful.

2) Why can I not see God, why does not God show the world He exists? - Jesus did and Jesus was God in flesh. But I asumme you still want much more than just that old answer. Why does not God show Himself right now, where I am seated?: God is as close as your lips are to your touge. But as you do not speak anything in confession you will not witness God in your life. A wise man will accept correction but a foolish man will not and will not face correction. (Preference from Preverbs) You are blocked by sinful thinking and actions, it is like doing a maths exam but you are writting english exam answers in the question spaces. It just can not happen.

3) So is God a delusion? No ofcourse not! That is like what I said eariler, it's like saying I am being delusional over a bottle have a structure to it and really there is no structure and the water is floating in a bottle shape form. What nonesense! Ofcourse God exists. Yet you will push further and say,"What makes you think the structure is spiritual?" Again in that case the structure of the universe is only as far as we know. To say there is no spiritual force, then you are suggesting that what we can only see, exists. It would only be down to our thoughts to suggest what else exist in what can not bee seem. I mean what do you exspect the cause of the universe to be? The Big Bang? You might say, however hard you try to come up with the cause of the Big Bang, you may never know if another big bang caused what you just descoverd. If though, God was added into this equation, this makes things easlier. (I do not say God atomaticly makes things clearer, God makes it clearer, that it is not my fault in that what makes up the concept of God) So because God is exists and the universe has the aspect of time, the 4th dimension. Out side or in spiritual form time is ceased to exist. When in spiritual form we will be able to see our lives back and forwards, we will also beable to see what could have happened if we did something else. The 5th dimension is like drawing a straight line on paper. The first point is the 1st dimention and the line its self is the 2nd dimension is 360 degrees squared. The 3rd dimension is 360 degrees cubed then the 4th dimension like I said is time. The 5th would be folding the sheet of paper in 2 so that the 1st and 2nd point touch each other. That is called a loop hole. And thus you can enter back in time. Black holes could be just that.

In addision to this, once you reach the 10th dimension which is a option from one starting point where there are many different direction you can travel in from a 2nd dimensional stand point. For these dimensions to exist needs a eternal thing which is God to occur. Otherwise the whole concept of a single point would revert continuisly backwards with out ending. And therefore no more than the 4rd dimension could exist. There is no limit to the dimension what God can create, as God is infinit.

Next time I will add: Who created God and why do people think God is a unoriginal answer. Although I have already answered them.

I want to see what my unweary friend says: linking his/her counter arguments to all my points.

Ok cool, hear from you.
Tatarize

Con

The fact that you even need to have this debate is a testament to the fact that God doesn't exist. How many long debates have you had making excuses for why you can't see or detect elves but they totally exist. How many debates are there on the existence of chairs? If there were a debate on the existence of chairs, why would it be derided as a joke whereas this debate is seen as mildly serious? -- Because CHAIRS EXIST.

If there were a God, there would be only one religion and everybody would believe.
Debate Round No. 1
GodSands

Pro

You are forggeting something vital, the Devil and sin. Jesus said you must be born again. Chairs hold no answer, I could live in a world with out chairs and not question them because chairs would be called something else. The word god is in all religions but what god is right? Some gods a false and have not showed them selfs my God has and my God makes the most sense. If we have problems with money God would have sent and banker, if we have ploblems with land God would have sent a landscaper, if we had problems with reading and writting God would have sent a teacher of language. But we have problems of evilness so God sent a saviour. If there was a God you would do what you are doing. Like I said: What do you exspect God to be like if God existed in your life? I say God is fulfilling and saving. And that is what God is. Life is good and God is life. God is wisdom.

I am surprised with your short reply. I am only saying what willl benefit you. The fact that thousands of people enter hell every day for ever is so fundimentally hopless. There intire existence now can not be descibed. In 90 years time, someone you know now may be dead and their everlasting existence depends on Jesus Christ. The crazy thing is that you would not let anybody die on a boat, but people let hundreds of people die in their life time. An average person knows 7,000 people in his/her life almost all will die. (Enter hell) That is the "death" of the spirit and you will sease to exist no more. This is unbeariabliy important.

Ok thank you.
Tatarize

Con

No you're forgetting something vital Voldemort and dark wizardry! If you don't believe you'll always just be a muggle and unable to fly with a magical broom.

What the hell? Don't you understand you're simply blathering nonsense? You're an atheist when it comes to every god out there of the millions of millions of potential deities, but we atheists just go one God further. Some gods are false? All gods are false. Do you have any reason why I should possibly accept your God over Allah or Zeus?

My short reply is a product of a short amount of evidence. When a person is ranting and howling at the moon, there's no reasoning with them. You just got to sit them down and point out that you have no reason to believe a jot of the blathering nonsense you're spewing. I could make more compelling claims about elves or fairies or gods as such. It's utter nonsense and rather than point out a massive and long diatribe, it's better to just state the facts and sit down.

In 90 years time, nobody I know will be dead. I say this because I will be dead and not know anybody. There's no everlasting existence and no reason other than fear to ever suppose there should be. You are substituting wishful thinking for honest appraisal of the facts. You're accepting what you want to be true over what there's reason to accept as true because you simply want it to be true. There's no honor in accepting a comforting lie over the truth.
Debate Round No. 2
GodSands

Pro

Your responses are poor! All you have done is degraded the truth so you can seem important. "No you're forgetting something vital Voldemort and dark wizardry! If you don't believe you'll always just be a muggle and unable to fly with a magical broom." That is like saying �1,000,000 is �1, by rasing who you are. A million pound is only 1 pound to me.

I am not a atheist, an atheist is someone who has no belief in a god, I have, I even know God. A athiest is where one has no belief at all. You say I do not belied in thousands of other gods is just a lame argument. You believe in a God, the God what does not show Him self to you, as you run from Him. You believe that!

"Do you have any reason why I should possibly accept your God over Allah or Zeus?" What do you need In God? Greed? When Muslims (not many) commit bomb attacks by killing them selfs, they think Allah will give them 72 black eyed virgins, be able to take his/her loved ones who are in hell, out of hell. His/her family will by them gifts and he/her will be given a big house in heaven. Zeus has many sons a daughters, this immplies that man have been making false gods up. With gods like the god of fire, god of love, there two gods of war and more like the god of life. All dressed up in a image of such thought. By that I mean if you think one god looks like a hunter, that god will. The whole family of gods have been thought up because they did not understand what something is.

Linking that with the Big Bang will not exclude God as I will always ask "and what caused that" and all movment in the physical world is in favour of a counter reaction. Therefore physicality must have been here for ever. Which is impossible. As I explained the 10th dimension to you. (Look back)

"In 90 years time, nobody I know will be dead. I say this because I will be dead and not know anybody." - You say that like I say heaven and hell exists, you also say that from a third person point of veiw, and unless that is how you see your self now, then fine. However you do not. By saying when I die there will be nothingness is more accurate. Hell wil become nothingness to a higher power, to God. But because you are considering your self to be almost nothingness, a sinning then you veiwing hell from God's eyes. Veiw hell from yours and you will see the pain and punishment, that will allow you to realise who you really are by believe in Jesus Christ and confess and repent. Become meaningful and God will accept you.

"There's no honor in accepting a comforting lie over the truth." What is the truth? Because you suggest that this life is it, you can comfort your self now. As for people like me, we see this life being an unconfortable place compared to heaven. And hell being a evil wicked place, where there is no rest. I do not believe in the truth because it offers confort but because it is the only way to everlasting confort. Ther eis still the doubt in mind and that is the most unconfortable feeling, I have felt doubt in God many times. It is herendisly unconfortable, makes my heart beat fast.

"There's no honor in accepting a comforting lie over the truth."
Tatarize

Con

What challenge was there in this? You never actually provided a jot of a reason why anybody should begin to suppose that you might be right. Nobody was given a reason, other than your initial assumption to assume as you do. The parodies of your arguments I used were meant to show you how lame your arguments are, they aren't even arguments. You are assuming something, and saying look how amazing this thing is because it's true. But, it isn't true!

I am an atheist. Not because I have no beliefs at all, I believe in love and wind and skate-parks and Denver and caves and the billion little things that exist in this universe. I'm content within an unfathomably impressive universe with simply accepting what is here rather than begging the non-existent for more.

To gild refined gold, to paint the lily,
To throw a perfume on the violet,
To smooth the ice, or add another hue
Unto the rainbow, or with taper-light
To seek the beauteous eye of heaven to garnish,
Is wasteful and ridiculous excess.

I'm an atheist because I don't accept the comforting absurd. There are theists across this planet and throughout time who you believe to be utterly flummoxed and wrong because they believe the same thing as you, give or take name. Clearly Muslims cannot actually be right because they would die for their beliefs and for the love of their families. Whereas Christians would never commit acts of murder and terrorism for their cause, discounting that guy who drove his SUV into that abortion clinic last week. And Zeus is part of a group of Gods whose trials and tribulations explain the composition of nature. Clearly their Gods were thought-up because they didn't understand what something was! I asked you why your God was different, not the ways in which your religious belief were identical. People die for the cause and invented out of ignorance do not suffice to fulfill this request.

You will always ask "and what caused that"? I call shenanigans, because that's categorically false. You say God did it and never ask "and what caused that?" -- Had you, you'd quickly realize what a non-answer saying God provides. I could explain how quantum phenomenon are causeless and how before time is a nonsensical proposition negating any ability of the universe to have a cause... but rather I'll point out, as I have done throughout, that God isn't an answer at all. It's nonsense blathered repeatedly.

The concept of being I, and being dead, is a hard one to grasp. Perhaps if not for the fear of death and the pain of losing one's family, people should have invented the idea of an afterlife simply out of inability to conceive of not existing. You didn't exist for 13.73 billion years and seem no worse for wear. Whose to worry about the great expanse of time after-wards when you will similarly not exist?

You may sit there and utter trite cliches like "what is truth" and agree that you suppose heaven because you would sacrifice truth for comfort in a heart beat. But, in the end the truth remains. You've proved nothing in this challenge except your ability to presuppose, suppose, and draw comforting conclusions from purely wanting them to be true.

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -- God goes away.
Debate Round No. 3
23 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by GodSands 8 years ago
GodSands
Who changed the title?
Posted by GodSands 8 years ago
GodSands
Ok.
Posted by LoveyounoHomo 8 years ago
LoveyounoHomo
if that person was me or you jhon that would suck
Posted by GodSands 8 years ago
GodSands
heck#
Posted by GodSands 8 years ago
GodSands
To Maya9, please calm the keck down, you never say anything usful. I am only human and sin is still bound to me.
Posted by Tatarize 8 years ago
Tatarize
"This destroyes the whole idea of a universe. No such thing as other universes."

No, it expands the idea. If you hold that there must have been fine tuning to achieve this wonderfully balanced universe then you must hold that there could have been other tunes the universe could have had. I contend that they might very well have many other settings which could allow life to arise.
Posted by Maya9 8 years ago
Maya9
Why do people continue trying to reason with GodSands? He is clearly not interested in reason, or in debate. He is here to preach, to get the attention he so desperately craves because he feels empty inside. THAT is why he a religious fanatic, and that is why is here. If you give him what he wants, he'll never go away. I don't know about you, but I want him to go away. He is soiling this site. Don't encourage him.
Posted by Maya9 8 years ago
Maya9
Patents? Parents. Stupid iPhone.
Posted by Maya9 8 years ago
Maya9
GodSands, I don't know what your patents did to you, but it must have been bad.
Posted by DiablosChaosBroker 8 years ago
DiablosChaosBroker
That's you "smuthered by sin." Don't even know how to use logic and know science.
17 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Tatarize 7 years ago
Tatarize
GodSandsTatarizeTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by philosphical 7 years ago
philosphical
GodSandsTatarizeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by Orangeman333 8 years ago
Orangeman333
GodSandsTatarizeTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by removableblob 8 years ago
removableblob
GodSandsTatarizeTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by TFranklin62 8 years ago
TFranklin62
GodSandsTatarizeTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by rougeagent21 8 years ago
rougeagent21
GodSandsTatarizeTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by resolutionsmasher 8 years ago
resolutionsmasher
GodSandsTatarizeTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by zach12 8 years ago
zach12
GodSandsTatarizeTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by hendrixliveson 8 years ago
hendrixliveson
GodSandsTatarizeTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by mecap 8 years ago
mecap
GodSandsTatarizeTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07