The Instigator
Magicr
Pro (for)
Winning
5 Points
The Contender
TheRecordMaker
Con (against)
Losing
3 Points

I Will Not Contradict Myself

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Magicr
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/19/2012 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,010 times Debate No: 25180
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (2)

 

Magicr

Pro

I've scene few of these and I thought it might be intersting to try.

Con asks 10 yes or no questions in each round from Rounds 1-3. I will answer each question to the best of my ability. If a question cannot be answered with a plain yes or no, I will explain why this is the case.

In Round 5, Con will point out the contradictions have occurred, I will offer a rebuttal. The same happpens in Round 5.

TheRecordMaker

Con

First, do contradictions start in Round 4?

Anyway, the questions:

1. Do you really support Obama and his views?

2. Do you think border security should be increased to stop aliens from crossing the border between America and Mexico?

3. Do you believe the minimum wage should be increased?

4. Is your profile an accurate and truthful description of you?

5. Do you think citizens should have smoking/tobacco rights?

6. Do you believe in God?

7. Do you believe some actions are objectively morally wrong?

8. Do you believe drugs should be legalized?

9. Is Earth a sad place right now?

10. Do you support George W. Bush?
Debate Round No. 1
Magicr

Pro

Do contradictions start in R4? Yes.

1. Do you really support Obama and his views?

On most issues, yes.

2. Do you think border security should be increased to stop aliens from crossing the border between America and Mexico?

No.

3. Do you believe the minimum wage should be increased?

Yes.

4. Is your profile an accurate and truthful description of you?

Yes, except for the About Me part.

5. Do you think citizens should have smoking/tobacco rights?

Yes, but not if smoking involves causes harm of others. In other words, in private is fine, but not if other people are forced to deal with second hand smoke in a public location.

6. Do you believe in God?

No.

7. Do you believe some actions are objectively morally wrong?

No.

8. Do you believe drugs should be legalized?

Some drugs such as marijuana, yes. More dangerous drugs, no.

9. Is Earth a sad place right now?

Overall, yes.

10. Do you support George W. Bush?

I assume by support you are referring to his actions as president and political beliefs. Overall, no.

Interesting questions.



TheRecordMaker

Con

Thank you Magicr for answering my first questions and for clearing up the rule misinterpretation.

1. Can inanimate objects hold emotions?

2. Is China an enemy?

3. Do you support abortion?

4. Should the US discontinue its use of the death penalty?

5. Are you against cruel and unusual punishment?

6. Do you support the war on terrorism?

7. Do you support funding wars and military operations in the Middle East (i.e. Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Pakistan, etc.)?

8. Do you support any war?

9. Do people have a moral obligation to assist people in need?

10. Do you support foreign aid?
Debate Round No. 2
Magicr

Pro

1. Can inanimate objects hold emotions?

No.

2. Is China an enemy?

No.

3. Do you support abortion?

I support a women's right to choose to have one.

4. Should the US discontinue its use o the death penalty?

In most cases.

5. Are you against cruel and unusual punishment?

Yes.

6. Do you support the war on terrorism?

No.

7. Do you support funding wars and military operations in the Middle East?

No to the war, yes to some military operations.

8. Do you support any war?

Yes.

9. Do people have a moral obligation to assist people in need?

Yes.

10. Do you support foreign aid?

Yes.
TheRecordMaker

Con

1. Is life sacred?

2. Do you believe China and the US may be hostile towards each other?

3. Should the government protect the people and focus on issues at home instead of abroad?

4. Should we completely cut off aid to Pakistan?

5. Does life begin at conception?

6. Should US Laws/Bills (i.e. Budgets, Obamacare, everything Congress passes, etc...) be required to be Constitutional (US Constitution)?

7. Do you support the US income tax (of any kind, flat or progressive)?

8. Is Ron Paul a good pick for President of the US (discount the impossibility)?

9. Are rocks inanimate objects?

10. Have you contradicted yourself yet?
Debate Round No. 3
Magicr

Pro

1. Is life sacred?

Depends on how sacred is defined. Important, yes. Holy, no.

2. Do you believe China and the US may be hostile towards each other?

Yes.

3. Should the government protect the people and focus on issues at home instead of abroad?

We should focus on issues at home, but that does not mean we completely ignore issues abroad as the word instead could possibly imply.

4. Should we completely cut off aid to Pakistan?

No.

5. Does life begin at conception?

Life begins, but not the existence of a human being.

6. Should US Laws/Bills (i.e. Budgets, Obamacare, everything Congress passes, etc...) be required to be Constitutional (US Constitution)?

Yes.

7. Do you support the US income tax (of any kind, flat or progressive)?

Yes.

8. Is Ron Paul a good pick for President of the US (discount the impossibility)?

No.

9. Are rocks inanimate objects?

Yes.
10. Have you contradicted yourself yet?

I am not aware of such a situation.

-----------------------------------------------------

Questioning is now finished. The next two rounds will consist of debating the existence of contradictions in my responses.
TheRecordMaker

Con

I would like to thank Magicr for answering all of my questions.

Contradictions:

1. Inanimate Life and the Earth

The Earth is a rock [1]. My opponent said rocks are inanimate objects. He also said that inanimate objects cannot hold emotions. Being sad is an emotion [2]. He said the Earth is sad. This is a contradiction.

2. Income Taxes and Constitutionality

The income tax is a bill Congress passed [3]. My opponent said that everything Congress passes should be Constitutional. The income tax is unconstitutional [4]. He supports the income tax. This is a contradiction.

3. Ron Paul, Obama, and Upholding the Constitution

My opponent said that the US Congress should only pass Constitutional bills. He supports Obama, even though many of his bills are unconstitutional [5][6] Here is a list of all his unconstitutional bills: [7]. He does not support Ron Paul, even though he abides by the constitution [8]. My opponent likes politicans who have unconstitutional policies and does not like politicians who have constitutional policies, yet he said that all bills should be constitutional. This is a contradiction.

4. Foreign Aid and Constitutionality

Pakistani Foreign Aid is a bill congress passed [9]. My opponent said that the US Congress should only pass Constitutional bills. He supports foreign aid to Pakistan. Foreign aid is unconstitutional [10]. This is a contradiction.

5. Military Conflict and Assistance

My opponent said that people do have a moral obligation to assist people in need, but he does not support the Iraqi War, even though some people are in need [11]. This is a contradiction.

6. China and the US

My opponent said that China is not the US's enemy, but then he said that China is sometimes hostile towards the US. But, enemy is defined as "a hostile nation or state"[12]. So, if China is hostile towards us, it is our enemy. This is a contradiction.

7. The Right to Life, Sacred Life, and Abortion

My opponent said that a fetus is alive at conception. My opponent also said that life is sacred. Then why is my opponent pro abortion when life is sacred and begins at conception? This is a contradiction.

8. Cruel and Unusual Punishment and Abortion

My opponent said that he is against cruel and unusual punishment. He said life begins at conception. He said life is sacred. He said he is pro abortion. Abortion is cruel and unusual punishment [13]. This is a contradiction.

9. The Minimum Wage and Comstitutionality

My opponent said that Congress should only pass Constitutional bills. He supports the minimum wage. The minimum wage is unconstitutional [14][15]. This is a contradiction.

10. Contradictions on Contradictions

My opponent said that he had not made any contradictions, even though he made 10 (including this one). This is a contradiction.

One contradiction is enough for you to lose. You have made 10. Clearly, you lost.

Sources:

[1]: http://www.factmonster.com...
[2]: http://en.wikipedia.org...
[3]: http://www.infoplease.com...
[4]: http://politicalvelcraft.org...
[5]: http://www.deflationeconomy.com...
[6]: http://www.foreignpolicy.com...
[7]: http://www.mcnaughtonart.com...
[8]: http://whyronpaul.com...
[9]: http://www.fas.org...
[10]: http://www.sodahead.com...
[11]: http://www.worlddialogue.org...
[12]: http://dictionary.reference.com...
[13]: http://www.rtl.org...
[14]:http://www.abajournal.com...
[15]: http://m.dinsmore.com...
Debate Round No. 4
Magicr

Pro

In many cases my opponent distorts my answers in order to find contradictions.

1. Inanimate life and the Earth.

This is not a contradiction. The question about whether the Earth is sad stated "Is the Earth a sad place?" Therefore, I was not saying that the Earth is sad, I was saying that the place is sad.

2. Income Taxes and Constitutionality

Not a contradiction. The question was whether I supported the idea of an income tax in any form, not whether I supported a specific bill passed by Congress. Beyond this, the income tax is completely constitutional because the Sixteenth Amendment gives Congress the power to levy an income tax [1]. The income tax is completely constitutional and my opponent's source saying that it is not is not reliable.

3. Ron Paul, Obama, and upholding the Constitution.

To begin with, I did not say I support every single action Obama has performed, I merely said I support his policies overall. The first source used by my opponent on this point is not reliable and the ACA is constitutional because the Supreme Court has deemed it so. The Constitution gives this power to the Supreme Court, so the ACA is constitutional.

As far as Libya is concerned, I did not say I support this action, but even if I did, I would not call our support to the Libyan rebels a war, as my opponent's source has done. The US was merely working with other UN nations to support the rebels, and soldiers were not actually on the ground fighting [2].

I do not oppose Paul because he abides by the Constitution, so this point is irrelevant.

4. Foreign Aid and Constitutionality


My opponent's point here is that foreign aid is not constitutional because the Constitution does not talk about this power. The problem with his argument is that the only way something can truly be determined to be unconstitutional is by a Supreme Court decision. The Court has issued no such decision, therefore it is constitutional.


5. Military Conflict and Assistance

While I did say that we have a moral obligation to help those in need and that I oppose the funding of wars in the Middle East, this is not a contradiction because I believe that starting a war is not the best way to help those in need.


6. China and the US

I did not say that China is hostile towards the US. The question was: "Do you believe China and the US may be hostile towards each other?" I have no reason to believe that they are hostile towards each other, but is it possible that they are? Anything is possible. Saying that they may be hostile is the same as saying is it possible. Not a contradiction.

7. The Right to Life, Sacred Life, and Abortion.

I only conceded life to be sacred in the sense that life is important, not that it is holy. The reason saying that life is important is not a contradiction with saying I am pro-choice is that while the life of a fetus is important, it is not as important as a woman's right to choose. Beyond this, while all life is important, the life of a fetus is not as important as the life of a human. I said that life begins at conception, not that a human being exists at conception.


8. Cruel and Unusual Punishment and Abortion

My opponent uses a very biased source in his argument that abortion is cruel and unusual punishment. Again, I said the life of a fetus is important, but not as important as a woman's right to choose. This is not a contradiction.

9. The Minimum Wage and Constitutionality

The minimum wage is not unconstitutional because the Supreme Court has not said that it is. In fact, one of my opponent's sources concedes that the Supreme Court actually upheld the minimum wage as constitutional in a unanimous vote [3].

10. Contradictions on Contradictions

Even if other contradictions were present, which I have shown not to be the case, this would not be a contradiction because I said that I was not aware of contradictions.

Clearly I have not contradicted myself.

Sources:

[1]- http://www.law.cornell.edu...;

[2]- http://en.wikipedia.org...;

[3]- http://www.abajournal.com...

TheRecordMaker

Con

I would like to thank Magicr for this great debate.

1. Inanimate Life and the Earth

But places are inanimate objects too. Inanimate objects are defined as "Not having the qualities associated with active, living organisms."[1] Places do not have the qualities associated with active, living organisms (i.e. they can not move, eat, talk, or think). Therefore, places are inanimate objects, and you said inanimate objects cannt hold emotions, but you said the Earth as a place is sad.

2. Income Taxes and Constitutionality

If you support the idea of an income tax, then you must support a bill before Congress to legislate it. It would be a contradiction within itself if you supported a bill but did not support its passing.

And the income tax is unconstitutional. "On May 21, 1895, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that a direct tax on personal income was unconstitutional...""The Supreme Court's decision was based on the premise that "Congress cannot impose a duty or tax upon personal property, or upon income arising either from rents of real estate or from personal property, including invested personal property, bonds, stocks, and investments of all kinds, except by apportioning the sum to be so raised among the States according to population, it practically decides that, without an amendment of the Constitution — two-thirds of both Houses of Congress and three-fourths of the States concurring — such property and incomes can never be made to contribute to the support of the national government.""Wikipedia's summary of the 16th Amendment states that all arguments against its proper ratification, which allegedly occurred in 1913, and constitutionality have been "rejected in every court case where they have been raised and have been identified as legally frivolous." Can a law declared unconstitutional in 1895 be constitutional in 1913 and beyond?""Mr. Bill Benson reported that he scrutinized the documents in the possession of various state legislatures and that the 16th Amendment had not been ratified by the required 36 states to have been enacted."[2] By the way, my source is reliable.

Also, [3] "the failure of thirteen [states] to ratify". It is uncomstitutional

3. Ron Paul, Obama, and Upholding the Constitution

"The mandate represents an unprecedented assertion of federal power."[4] "See where it says in Clause 1, "To lay and collect Taxes"? The Lawless Five assert that this phrase authorizes Congress to lay & collect taxes for any purposes whatsoever.
They IGNORED the "specification of the objects [Clauses 3-16] alluded to by these general terms" [Clauses 1 & 2] – the "enumeration of particulars" which "explain and qualify" "the general phrase".
In effect, they repealed Clauses 3-16. In a nutshell, the Lawless Five asserted that Congress and the President may do whatever they want to us. Just call it a "tax".""Article I, �8, clauses 1-16 [READ]"[5] so, Obamacare is unconstitutional. We simply had a majority of very bad, totalitarian judges who didn't even bother to read the Constitution.

"In taking the country into a war with Libya, Barack Obama's administration is breaking new ground in its construction of an imperial presidency -- an executive who increasingly acts independently of Congress at home and abroad. Obtaining a U.N. Security Council resolution has legitimated U.S. bombing raids under international law. But the U.N. Charter is not a substitute for the U.S. Constitution, which gives Congress, not the president, the power "to declare war."[6] "Article One, Section Eight of the Constitution reads: "Congress shall have power to … declare War." Congress did not declare war on Libya. The globalist sock puppet Obama did."[7] Obama's airstrike is unconstitutional.

And, if you like constitutional policies, why do you support unconstitutional presidents but oppose constitutional presidents? That in itself is a contradiction.

4. Foreign Aid and Constitutionality

"Just to make sure this principle was legally codified, the Tenth Amendment was included:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

There is no authorization to pay for spying in Mexico. There is no authorization to prop up dictators in places like Pakistan with your money. There is no authorization to spend your money on "military assistance" for other countries. There is no authorization to funnel money through the CIA to support regime changes. The Constitution was written in plain English – there is nothing there which authorizes the federal government to take your money and give it to foreign governments. For any reason."[8] Foreign aid is unconstitutional.

5. Military Conflict and Assistance

Well, there is no other way to help those people in those places. You can't help people there without war. If you support helping people, you must support the wars.

6. China and the US

My opponent pratically contradicted himself, when he was attempting to defend himself.
He earlier stated that the US and China are hostile towards each other. He just stated that the US and China are NOT hostile towards each other.

The fact that he admitted earlier that they were hostile, fits the definition of an "enemy".
Hence, according to Pro, China is an enemy, but he answered the question "Is China an enemy" with a No.

7. The Right to Life, Sacred Life, and Abortion

This is one big contradiction itself. If life begins at conception, than abortion is murder. Even if the lifemof a fetus is not as importantas the life of a human, this only matters if the woman's life is in danger, which you still support abortions if she is not. Life is more important than rights. And you support helping people in need. Life begins at conception, so you must help fetuses by being pro-life.

8. Cruel and Unusual Punishment and Abortion

"Abortion is plain infanticide, a crime against nature. Unless life is threatened, the human specie should be allowed to continue, and if need be put up for adoption instead of aborting."[9] So yes, abortion is cruel and unusual punishment, and you are against that and think life begins at conception.

9. The Minimum Wage and Constitutionality

"The argument focuses on the Tenth Amendment, which provides that "[t]he powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." Although Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution grants Congress the power "to regulate commerce…among the several states", it does not contain a clause expressly authorizing Congress to prescribe a federal minimum wage. Thus, opponents argue that because the Constitution does not expressly give Congress the power to set a minimum wage, that power is reserved to the states."[10] The minimum wage is unconstitutional.

10. Contradiction on Contradictions

You have made 10 contradictions, yet you rejected (am not aware, i.e. you don't see one) that you made a contradiction. This is a contradiction.

You have been found to be contradictory. I win. Vote con.

Thank you.

Sources:

[1]: http://www.thefreedictionary.com...
[2]: http://politicalvelcraft.org...
[3]: http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com...
[4]: http://www.hoover.org...
[5]: http://www.toberight.com...
[6]: http://www.foreignpolicy.com...
[7]: http://www.infowars.com...
[8]: http://tenthamendmentcenter.com...
[9]: http://townshipnews.org...
[10]: http://m.dinsmore.com...
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by adontimasu 4 years ago
adontimasu
I kind of want to do one of these now. :D
Posted by TheRecordMaker 4 years ago
TheRecordMaker
Thank you.
Posted by Magicr 4 years ago
Magicr
Yes you can.
Posted by TheRecordMaker 4 years ago
TheRecordMaker
Can I please take this?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Doulos1202 4 years ago
Doulos1202
MagicrTheRecordMakerTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: We are not currently at war. Technically we are providing aid to a foriegn country combating terrorism which is known as a miltary operation other than war. We are providing logistical support and security while slowly allowing the Afghan National Army to take back control of their country.
Vote Placed by adontimasu 4 years ago
adontimasu
MagicrTheRecordMakerTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro proved that his views did not contradict with one another. Con's sources, while plentiful, were mostly unreliable. So, Pro gets the source points.