The Instigator
dmoore
Pro (for)
Losing
12 Points
The Contender
Yraelz
Con (against)
Winning
24 Points

I am just needing some help with a public forum case I am writting for next week

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/30/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,295 times Debate No: 3442
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (22)
Votes (12)

 

dmoore

Pro

I need some arguments fort the resolution: Presidential primaries are contrary to democratic values

these arguments have to be con and supporting these values
life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, equality, popular sovereignty, patriotism, and rule of law."
Yraelz

Con

Aight.

Point number 1: The primaries are the only feasible system. While people might gripe and moan about the idea that they are undemocratic they don't suggest viable alternatives. This is because there are not any viable alternatives to our current system, it is in fact as sound as it can be. Without viable alternatives the current system upholds the greatest amount of democracy.

Point number 2: The process actually increases the spotlight on all of the possible candidates which allows for an informed population. An informed population in turn leads to greater voter turn out for fear of the wrong politician being elected.

Point number 3: Primaries allow for a greater choice of possible canidates. Some would argue that this is not true on the basis that the people with less money will get less attention. This is obviously not true, look specifically to how many candidates were in each of the primaries at the beginning this election.

Point number 4: The presidential primaries in no way infringes on life. They have never killed anyone.

Point number 5: The presidential primaries in no way infringes on liberty. They in fact allow for the greatest amount of liberty as there is no other viable solution.

Point number 6: The presidential primaries allow for many many debates which in turn lets the voters know just who they are voting for. This actually leads to the best pursuit of happiness.
Debate Round No. 1
dmoore

Pro

Is there any way to say not just it is the best system but also to say that it supports democratic values.

And if possible could you suggest 1 more contention for me to start forming my speech thanks.
Yraelz

Con

The presidential primaries allows everyone to vote on delegates who are "bound" to vote at the state or national conventions for the popular outcome. This allows everyone to have a vote if they desire it, much like a true democracy. While this system has defected arguably 5 times in history it has supported democratic values the vast majority of times. Thus as there is no viable alternative and it does commonly support democratic values it is a democratic system.

Cross apply point number 6.
Debate Round No. 2
dmoore

Pro

Do you know anything about the founding fathers building the U.S. on democratic values. Possibly a thing saying formed after the Greece gov.
Yraelz

Con

Sorry was a little busy for a bit. No I do not know anything of the United States being formed after greek ideals. I have an evidence file from west coast debate on all of this if you would like it.
Debate Round No. 3
dmoore

Pro

hey no prob me to but if it is on this topic please send it to
DanMoore1136(the little a)gmail.com
and thank you so much

Any one watching this debate I for fit so vote for the con side to give hin the credit for helping me
Yraelz

Con

Alright, there you are. Is there anything else I can help you with? Any particular argument you think that people will argue against you? I can give you the Pro argument if you would like.
Debate Round No. 4
dmoore

Pro

nope and thank you again so much

llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
Yraelz

Con

Darth_Grievous has a good point. Its going to be very difficult for you to argue that they are true to democratic principles. Hopefully those 24 pages of evidence help. =)
Debate Round No. 5
22 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by dmoore 9 years ago
dmoore
march may be over psynthesizer but the schooling I am going to still has one debate on this topic.
Posted by dmoore 9 years ago
dmoore
mjg283 I never would have done this but I was running so short on time and I had to hurry. If I didnot do this I would have flunked forensics even if I had 100%.
Posted by psynthesizer 9 years ago
psynthesizer
Just some random refutations to throw around:

There are viable alternatives. The delaware plan, the national primary, the American Plan, just to name a few. In fact, the 2008 primaries were supposed to be placed under a system that would encourage a national primary by eliminating early states from the schedule, instead pushing for more primaries to be held on "Super Tuesday."

As for any points involving money, state that the initial "cost" or barrier of entry is much greater for the presidential primaries. Put it this way: Joe Schmoe off the streets cannot even get onto the ballots without a substantial amount of money and support from political party members. Thus, this increased barrier of entry prevents a substantial number of viable candidates from actually participating in the primaries. Therefore, the current system of presidential primaries are contrary to the democratic value of equal rights within a democracy.

The primary system itself does not provide debates, and most kids run the information point simply on the fact that most evidence packets this month for pf have a point about the debates. Debates are self-serving media events which places much heavier emphasis on top contenders, rather than ALL of the contenders. This is in direct contradiction with the point that ALL candidates can be considered during the primary season.

Just a random note at this point, but I think you should distinguish between equal rights and equality.

But this is all jibber jabber; March is over :D (this topic was weird...)
Posted by XsamacadoX 9 years ago
XsamacadoX
good points. also... you little cheater =P

nice pic by the way.
Posted by dmoore 9 years ago
dmoore
those contradictions give the other team one choice or another with how I plan to present it
Ragnar_Rahl but thanks for the input
Posted by mjg283 9 years ago
mjg283
Why not do your own research and decide what the best arguments are rather than asking others to do your work for you?

If you really want good arguments as to why our primary system has elements to it that are contrary to democratic values, all you'd have to do is read the newspaper or watch any of the news shows any day since the Primary Season began. That has been one of the most heavily discussed and debated issues.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 9 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
"
life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, equality, popular sovereignty"
"

Contradictions!

Popular sovereignty means that the majority decides everything, infringing on the liberty (and thereby the life, since humans require action from their own minds to live as such) of the minority. Popular sovereignty means that the minority cannot pursue happiness except at the whim of the majority. Popular sovereignty declares the majority and minority unequal in legal status- and a general declaration of equality in all spheres contradicts liberty, the pursuit of happiness, life (since the only way to make everyone equal in general terms is to make them dead, as that is the lowest common denominator, you can't make everyone have a fixed amount in the living sphere).
Posted by dmoore 9 years ago
dmoore
It is the last tournament on the may topic and it is being held in April so that will help. And it is also at the smallest school I have been to.But I do not necessarily want to win I just want to get a pfd tourney in to pass (grade requirements)
Posted by Logical-Master 9 years ago
Logical-Master
You're definitely going to run into people who understand the topic inside and out. However, the rate depends on what kind of tournament you're going to.
Posted by dmoore 9 years ago
dmoore
yrazel my dad gave me some stuff tieing in that america being a dmacracy makes the system a demacracy. It has alot of links and is totaly far fetched but it makes sense and any laid judge will go for it.
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