The Instigator
jessecurry
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Freeman
Pro (for)
Winning
37 Points

I am real.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 7 votes the winner is...
Freeman
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/12/2009 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,628 times Debate No: 10099
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (7)

 

jessecurry

Con

I am not real, prove otherwise to the members of this site and you win.

For the purposes of this debate:
- real is defined as "being or occurring in fact or actuality; having verified existence; not illusory"

- proof is defined as "a formal series of statements showing that if one thing is true something else necessarily follows from it"
Freeman

Pro

I thank jessecurry for creating this debate.

=========
Contention 1: My opponent has proven his own existence.
=========

My opponent has conclusively testified to his own existence by merely creating this debate. The statement, "I am not real" is self defeating and paradoxical. Only a person that is real could write or say, "I am not real". Therefore, my opponent has logically demonstrated that he exists and has defeated his own resolution in the process.
Debate Round No. 1
jessecurry

Con

First, thank you for accepting my debate. It calls into question many assumptions that we all make to allow our day-to-day lives to make more sense.

There are many ways that the phrase "I am not real" could be made to appear on this site, most of which would not require me to be a real person.
Even if I am a real person there is not a way to prove that to the members of this site.

Perception is by nature illusory as it is a subjective view of what is believed to be an objective environment. Even if I were real and you were to somehow place me in a room with members of this site there is not a way to prove that I am real to anyone other than myself. If you believe otherwise please outline the steps that you would take to prove that I am real to others reading this site.
Freeman

Pro

I thank jessecurry for his interesting response.

*Case Pro: Rebuttals*

"Even if I am a real person there is not a way to prove that to the members of this site."

Contention 1: My opponent has only given further proof that he is real.

By creating a very thoughtful argument my opponent has only provided further evidence that he is in fact real. Complex arguments and intellectually sophisticated sentences don't randomly generate themselves and magically appear on the Internet. Members of DDO are therefore justified in believing that you are in fact real. You have demonstrated this much to even the most die-hard scientific skeptic.
Debate Round No. 2
jessecurry

Con

While it is reasonable for members of this site to assume that I am real, my opponent has done nothing to prove that I am real to members of this site.

Perhaps I am a fictitious character created by my opponent in order to further his reputation on the site. Perhaps my posts are the result of a computer program that can parse the English language and prepare responses. Perhaps my opponent has imagined everything... perhaps there are no readers of this site, perhaps the site only exists in my opponent's mind. I an instance the burden of proving my existence falls to my opponent.
Freeman

Pro

I thank jessecurry for creating this debate and for his willingness to argue with me.

*Case Pro: Rebuttals*

--> "Perhaps I am a fictitious character created by my opponent in order to further his reputation on the site."

If this were true I would simply be affirming my own existence. Moreover, I quite clearly exist by virtue of the fact that I am currently writing this sentence.

--> "Perhaps my posts are the result of a computer program that can parse the English language and prepare responses."

There is not a single computer program that is known to exist that is capable of producing lucid and intelligent arguments on par with a fully conscious human. We can therefore use Ockham's Razor to dismiss this possibility. [1] The probability that you are a person that exists is much more likely. And even if you were only a computer you would obviously have to be some kind of self-conscious computer. Therefore, you would exist in either case even if you were only made out of silicone.

--> "Perhaps my opponent has imagined everything... perhaps there are no readers of this site, perhaps the site only exists in my opponent's mind."

If it were true that DDO didn't exist then I would simply be having a debate in my mind in which I am affirming my own existence. Since I can think, I must exist. [2] I may be deceived right now, but I could not deceive myself into imagining that I exist. Therefore, even if DDO and its various members did not exist I would have sufficiently won this debate in my own mind by demonstrating that I exist.

--> "While it is reasonable for members of this site to assume that I am real, my opponent has done nothing to prove that I am real to members of this site."

I disagree. You have already quite clearly demonstrated that you exist by merely creating this debate. If you were not real you would have been unable to create this debate. Therefore, you exist. (Resolution affirmed)

Best,
Freeman

---References---

[1] http://www.iep.utm.edu...
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org...

Good Luck
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by followhard 7 years ago
followhard
As much as I want to vote for con (just because that would be exceptional) I cannot vote for him. Con did an excellent Job, but I am with Rezz below, Con just can't win this debate. I would love to hear an argument that could win this debate, I am sure it is out there in someones mind...
Posted by daniel_t 7 years ago
daniel_t
I have to recuse myself from the vote. I have met Jesse, worked with him for a couple of years actually, so I happen to know that he is decidedly unreal. :-)
Posted by tmhustler 7 years ago
tmhustler
s&g for pro the only mistakes I could find were by con
arg pro, had better arguments
tie to all else
Posted by Xer 7 years ago
Xer
That would require some interesting evidence, lol.
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
Unless he claims to be an illusion created by a computer program.
Posted by Rezzealaux 7 years ago
Rezzealaux
CON can't win.
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by sienkinm 7 years ago
sienkinm
jessecurryFreemanTied
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Vote Placed by Marauder 7 years ago
Marauder
jessecurryFreemanTied
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Vote Placed by Apologician 7 years ago
Apologician
jessecurryFreemanTied
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Vote Placed by XimenBao 7 years ago
XimenBao
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Vote Placed by Nails 7 years ago
Nails
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Vote Placed by tmhustler 7 years ago
tmhustler
jessecurryFreemanTied
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Vote Placed by Rezzealaux 7 years ago
Rezzealaux
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