The Instigator
DucoNihilum
Pro (for)
Losing
21 Points
The Contender
Darth_Grievous_42
Con (against)
Winning
24 Points

I believe some people on this website are incompetent in making propositions.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/9/2008 Category: Technology
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,533 times Debate No: 2505
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (10)
Votes (14)

 

DucoNihilum

Pro

I hold the belief that many people on this website simply do horribly when creating their propositions. Some of them are worded in such a way that they are not propositions, some of them are worded in such a way that the topic is confusing.
Darth_Grievous_42

Con

As con, my position must be that I believe some people on this website are competent in making propositions. There are many members on this site who actually do a good job at making their propositions and follow up arguments. Some members I personally admire for this are as follows:

joze14rock
Randomknowledge
clsmooth
kvaughan
Logical Master
repete21
Harlan
mikelwallace
dairygirl4u2c
Los_Altos_JW
answermate
FalseReality
Fenrir
bsergent
Miserlou

And those are only a few of them. Having read several of their debates, and debated with some, I find them to be superior to the average debaters, who not only word their propositions clearly and in a non-confusing manner, but also back them up using examples, evidence, etc. They form valid arguments in the first round, rather than the all too familiar "two sentence trap" where they will state only their proposition, waiting for a member to accept, and then bombarding them in the second round with information they failed to give. So there are members on this site who are competent in making propositions. While many members could use some work on their own propositions, they too are sometimes able to give valid arguments within a paragraph. Thus, I would have to say many members on this site are good proposition makers, and only a minority are a waste of time.
Debate Round No. 1
DucoNihilum

Pro

Well, I might as well counter your argument and push my own main point as well.

My argument was that I believe that some people on this website are incompotent in making propositions. While some might be competent, that does not null those 'some' that are incompetent at making propositions, those some still exist.

Furthermore, my premise is "I believe...", therefore, you must prove that I do not, in fact, believe that some people are incompetent at making propositions.

People who make propositions, such as mine "I believe" (I did this for a reason, not because I fail at propositions) usually argue pro, and do not bring up the fact that they believe it, and that con must disprove that they believe that..... but that's exactly what it is, the proposition "I believe some people on this website are incompetent in making propositions." forces the con to disprove whether or not somebody believes it!

Since some people are so incompetent at making propositions, to put "I believe" or propose a question (EG: Do dogs bark?) they make debates confusing and difficult.
Darth_Grievous_42

Con

Not having specified what point your opponent must argue on, I chose my own, which does, in fact, logically fit. Because of this failure on your part, you must work with the side I choose regardless of the way you may have intended for me to argue. During your whole rebuttal, you failed to show specific examples of members who lack the ability to make good proposals, throwing into question your point of view as a whole. Its seems you are among those to whom you scorn.

A debater does not need to disprove the words "I believe" unless it is necessary for the betterment of the debate, e.i. "reality vs. perception topics". If one did try to disprove every members personal views, the debate would quickly fall into a battle of personal attack (ad hominem). Rather, the words "I believe" are only a formality of the argument, in order to show their personal stance, and is synonymous with "The topic I will be arguing for is" or something else to that effect. It is much like judging a person based on the way they greet you, such as whether they say "hi" or "shalom", it means the same thing, so why make a junk about it. The main point of civilised debating is to prove a main idea wrong, not a persons feelings. Any worthwhile debater would know that.

I have shown that some people are competent at making propositions. The only someone you have shown to be unable to make good propositions, unfortunately, is yourself regardless of whether you meant it to be an example or not. This validates my point that a majority are competent, and a minority are not. If someone does not do a good job with their proposition, they are only hurting themselves, allowing their opponent to meld the argument anyway within reason that they want. It then falls to the instigator to work with the mess they made for themselves. Thus, it seems as though the problem falls not on the opponent but the instigator. If they do not fix the problem themselves, that just means more free wins for everyone else. Darth_Grievous_42 out.
Debate Round No. 2
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by repete21 9 years ago
repete21
Darth Grievous 42, that made my day :) You too are a phenomenal debator, sometime I'll whoop you again :P
Posted by DucoNihilum 9 years ago
DucoNihilum
I'm just posting in the comments as of now, not closing arguments. I do not have poor proposition making skills- in fact, I made this proposition in such a way to prove a point. He was the one that incorrectly argued that some people are incompetent. I was not arguing whether or not all people are incompetent, I was arguing whether or not I believed /some/ people were incompetent. He utterly failed to prove otherwise.Not only did he fail to disprove that I did not believe in such, but he also failed to prove that all of the people on this site were in fact competent (To disprove 'some people are incompetent). If one were to put "I believe" in the resolution, they would in fact win every debate, unless they choose not to argue their own proposition (which usually happens, as most people argue not whether not not they believe, but their topic). That is why people who make those sorts of arguments are incompetent in making them. They're worded in such a way as it is impossible to take up the proposition in the first place without setting yourself up for a trap- they're essentially propositions that should not ever be taken up.
Posted by FalseReality 9 years ago
FalseReality
Duco, comments don't count as last arguments. Darth wupped you. If you wanted him to argue that all people here are incompetant you should have said none of the people on this site are competant, again showing your bad proposition making skills
Posted by AntiPatriot 9 years ago
AntiPatriot
I'm pretty sure the instigator was making a point when he put "I believe" in his proposition. He said in round 2, "to put "I believe" or propose a question (EG: Do dogs bark?) they make debates confusing and difficult." So he knowingly put in a stupid proposition to make a point. I totally agree though. Some of the headlines that go like, "Abortion is it bad?" are absolutely ridiculous. That doesn't even make sense! How are you supposed to debate someone with that proposition?
Posted by zarul 9 years ago
zarul
If one puts "I believe" in the resolution, would he/she not always win the debate? All they have to do is prove that they believe in it, and the negative would have absolutely no way of disproving it.
Posted by DucoNihilum 9 years ago
DucoNihilum
I specified it in the proposition. While the proposition (Whether or not I believe that people are poor in making propositions) is totally absurd, that is what must be argued.

While you showed that SOME people are competent in making propositions, that does not make ALL people on this website competent in making propositions, if just some of them are poor at making propositions then I am still right. Even a minority being incompetent would mean that 'some' people are incompetent in making propositions.
Posted by C-Mach 9 years ago
C-Mach
I agree. Is this 25 characters yet?
Posted by wingnut2280 9 years ago
wingnut2280
I don't disagree with you as you're a glaring example. Well put Zarul.
Posted by FunkeeMonk91 9 years ago
FunkeeMonk91
I agree with zarul. 25 characters!
Posted by zarul 9 years ago
zarul
No offense, but your proposition could be better too.
14 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by JBlake 8 years ago
JBlake
DucoNihilumDarth_Grievous_42Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:06 
Vote Placed by repete21 9 years ago
repete21
DucoNihilumDarth_Grievous_42Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by Logical-Master 9 years ago
Logical-Master
DucoNihilumDarth_Grievous_42Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by SportsGuru 9 years ago
SportsGuru
DucoNihilumDarth_Grievous_42Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by FalseReality 9 years ago
FalseReality
DucoNihilumDarth_Grievous_42Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by Darth_Grievous_42 9 years ago
Darth_Grievous_42
DucoNihilumDarth_Grievous_42Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by AntiPatriot 9 years ago
AntiPatriot
DucoNihilumDarth_Grievous_42Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by C4747500 9 years ago
C4747500
DucoNihilumDarth_Grievous_42Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by mrmazoo 9 years ago
mrmazoo
DucoNihilumDarth_Grievous_42Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by s0m31john 9 years ago
s0m31john
DucoNihilumDarth_Grievous_42Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30