The Instigator
Dale.G
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
DeusMortisEst
Con (against)
Winning
62 Points

I can prove Jesus Christ is very real through dreams and visions

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 11 votes the winner is...
DeusMortisEst
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/11/2013 Category: Education
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,170 times Debate No: 29092
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (18)
Votes (11)

 

Dale.G

Pro

I can prove Jesus Christ is very real through dreams and visions
DeusMortisEst

Con

I accept your debate, although I struggle to see how you plan on backing this up in any meaningful and conclusive manner.
Debate Round No. 1
Dale.G

Pro

I had a vision of seeing Jesus Christ, is their where people in the water and they where be tossed around in the waves; then i heard a voice then when i looked i beheld seeing Jesus flying throw the air over to this one ship. where their was a dove their,' it was very grate Jesus looks like he has water within his belly and Jesus looks like me or u. 2ed vision i had of seeing Jesus one night I went to sleep then i was sounded by those mean guys right then they where all pointing at this one part; and they said it is him it is Jesus of Nazareth, then I looked then i sore Jesus Christ it was like yea, then Jesus Christ came to help me Jesus Christ had a bow and he was smiling I could see Jesus smiling. 3 vision i had of seeing Jesus, OK I will tell how i seen Jesus Christ in a vision. OK one night I went to sleep and then I seen this dark person, and this dark person was trying to draw me to it,' I yelled at the dark person i said i am free from the law of sin and death by the blood of Jesus Christ. then suddenly,' I heard this wonderful voice up in the sky started to speak in unknown Tongues, then the grown start to shake then as the grown started to shake i then felt a pulling upwards up into the clouds then as I was going up I felt this grate love, Joy, and Peace, fallowing throw me and I was smiling I can Remember it so clearly and as I went up into the clouds. then as the clouds faded away; then I sore with my very eyes Jesus I sore water within him, his face was side on he was moving and their was thunder in the distances, and when I seen Jesus Christ I heard Jesus say devil take your hands of my children they are mind, so Jesus was very angry with the devil, then all I remember is going back down and this big fire it was like a big fire ball coming down and it was like a protection for me. and then as i went out of the vision I seen where that evil person was it was all fire there is a bible verse in 2 Kings 1:14 2 Kings 1:14
Amplified Bible (AMP)
14 Behold, fire came down from heaven and burned up the two captains of the former fifties with their fifties. Therefore let my life now be precious in your sight. Isaiah 24:1
Amplified Bible (AMP)
Isaiah 24

1 BEHOLD, THE Lord will make the land and the [a]earth empty and make it waste and turn it upside down (twist the face of it) and scatter abroad its inhabitants. and that is the vision of what i had of seeing the Lord Jesus Christ
DeusMortisEst

Con

Woah woah woah woah woah woah woah woah woah woah woah woah woah woah woah!

"I had a vision of seeing Jesus Christ"

Prove it. Prove that it wasn't just a dream because you clearly can't stop thinking about Christianity, and it is an accepted fact that dreams and daydreams are influenced by input data (which includes thoughts).

So prove to me that your vision was legit and not just a dream or symptom of psychosis.
Debate Round No. 2
Dale.G

Pro

Before I prove my visions of seeing the Lord Jesus Christ I would like to thank Paddy for debating me.

OK the Proof of me seeing Jesus Christ in Visions is this what I did was is I called out to Father God and asked Father God to show me Jesus Christ in a vision/dreams

Now Paddy for me to try to prove to u and anyone out there that Visions and dreams of seeing the Lord Jesus Christ
Is true is this U would have to do the same thing as I did by calling out to Father God and ask Father God to show u Jesus Christ to u in a vision/dream and Jesus will show himself to u :) then once u see the Lord Jesus Christ in a Vision/dream then u can tell everyone else that Dale is right about seeing Jesus Christ in vision/dreams :) because then It will be u Paddy who has the personal experiences with the Lord Jesus Christ :) see all u got to do is ask and if u don't Ask u don't get :) Jesus Christ said in Matthew 7:7-10
King James Version (KJV)
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

/ Me quote Now Paddy I would like for u to try to prove to me that dreams and daydreams are influenced by input data (which includes thoughts).
DeusMortisEst

Con

If I do as you say, and call out to god, and have a dream about him tonight that still proves nothing.
It proves nothing for two reasons:

A) If I have a dream it still has no bearing on the legitimacy of your dream.
B) It doesn't prove that dream is anything more than, as I said, a result of input data (in this case, me thinking about having a dream about god).

As for challenging me to try and prove that dreams are the product of input data:

"Though there is much debate within the field about the purpose of dreaming, a leading theory involves the consolidation of memories and experiences that occurs during REM sleep. The electric involuntary stimulus the brain undergoes during sleep is believed to be a basis for a majority of dreaming.
The link between memory, sleep, and dreams become more significant in studies analyzing memory consolidation during sleep. Research has shown that NREM sleep is responsible for the consolidation of facts and episodes in contrast to REM sleep that consolidates more emotionally related aspects of memory. The correlation between REM and emotional consolidation could be interpreted as the reason why dreams are of such an emotional nature and produce strong reactions from humans."

(from http://en.wikipedia.org...)
Debate Round No. 3
Dale.G

Pro

Paddy said this to me If I do as you say, and call out to god, and have a dream about him tonight that still proves nothing.
It proves nothing for two reasons:

/ Me Quote I said this to Paddy U would have to do the same thing as I did by calling out to Father God and ask Father God to show u Jesus Christ to u in a vision/dream and Jesus will show himself to u :)

/ Me Quote Paddy knows now Jesus is God

Paddy said this to me A) If I have a dream it still has no bearing on the legitimacy of your dream.
B) It doesn't prove that dream is anything more than, as I said, a result of input data (in this case, me thinking about having a dream about god).

/ Me Quote this is what I will say to Paddy, here is a Question? do? dreams/visions happen
DeusMortisEst

Con

Do dreams and visions happen? Yes they do, HOWEVER, whether or not they happen is irrelevant. There is no evidence to suggest that they are the result of any kind of divine intervention.

But even if there WERE evidence of divine intervention with regards to dreams and visions, that wouldn't prove the legitimacy of your claims, because you cannot prove that:

A) You have had these experiences.

B) These experiences were legitimate messages from god.

By the way: "Paddy knows now Jesus is God"

I don't remember saying that, and I don't remember saying anything that remotely implied that. I also don't see how it's relevant.
Debate Round No. 4
Dale.G

Pro

Paddy said this to me Do dreams and visions happen? Yes they do,

/ Me Quote so Paddy you cannot deny any of my dream/visions then so you would just have to accept that I had a dream/vision of seeing the Lord Jesus Christ why well you Paddy said Do dreams and visions happen? Yes they do,

/ Me Quote my question? is to Paddy is this how do u know that someone who has had a dream/vision is irrelevant
when you Paddy say Do dreams and visions happen? Yes they do,
/ Me Quote Paddy you cannot eat your cake and have it both ways

/ Me Quote Paddy said this to me But even if there WERE evidence of divine intervention with regards to dreams and visions, that wouldn't prove the legitimacy of your claims, because you cannot prove that:

/ Me Quote I will say again Paddy would have to do the same thing as I did by calling out to Father God and ask Father God to show u Jesus Christ to u in a vision/dream and Jesus will show himself to u :)

/ Me quote Paddy can you do it now can you call out to father God and ask Father God to show you Jesus Christ to you in a dream and a vision.

/ Me Quote Paddy said this to me A) You have had these experiences.
/ Me Quote so Paddy by you saying that means that you agree that i have had Experiences of seeing the Lord Jesus Christ in dreams and visions :) Paddy you cannot prove me wrong about me having dreams or visions

/ Me Quote here is another question I would like to ask Paddy
here is the Question Paddy do u believe me when I tell you I dream and I can have visions
DeusMortisEst

Con

I can't deny that you have had dreams, but I can (and do) disbelieve that they were divine in nature.

Whether or not they happen is irrelevant because it doesn't prove divine origin. Dreams are a scientifically recognized and accepted phenomenon, so there is no dispute as to whether they occur or not, however you seem to think that if I concede that dreams exist, I am admitting that they are divine in origin, which I'm not.

I didn't say you've had these experiences, if you actually quoted me in context you would find that what I actually said was this:

"But even if there WERE evidence of divine intervention with regards to dreams and visions, that wouldn't prove the legitimacy of your claims, because you cannot prove that:

A) You have had these experiences.

B) These experiences were legitimate messages from god."

Which was not a concession of anything at all, when read in the correct context.

You said: "you cannot prove me wrong about me having dreams or visions"
No, I can't, but then the burden of proof is on you in this case, so I don't actually have to.

"do u believe me when I tell you I dream and I can have visions"
Dreams: Yes
Visions: Not so much, although you could be schizophrenic, so I can't say for sure

Whether or not you dream is not the issue here. I can say with about 99% certainty that you dream. Everyone with a functioning parietal lobe dreams.
I do not believe that your dreams are divine in origin. The mere fact that you dream proves absolutely nothing.
Debate Round No. 5
18 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by dont-out-of-line.1 3 years ago
dont-out-of-line.1
If I could vote it would be to DeusMortisEst because he points out that Dale.G misquotes his words and I do not think that if he was real (not saying he is or hes not) that he would just do as you say. I'm sorry but i find you more insane then I find myself insane.
Posted by CasLuciDrlockin 3 years ago
CasLuciDrlockin
and I SAID OH LORD JESUS THERE'S A FAHR! AND I RAN OUT DIDN'T GRAB NO SHOES OR NOTIN JESUS! AND I RAN FOR MY LIFE!
Posted by jh1234l 3 years ago
jh1234l
A few days ago imabench dreamed that he kicked Mitt Romney's wife in his #$^*. If Dale's argument is valid, then you will also have to accept that Mitt Romney's wife is a guy.
Posted by Hay 3 years ago
Hay
I dont believe that pro is a normal person I think he is wrong con had very very good arguments I am not insulting pro I am just saying,
Posted by DeusMortisEst 3 years ago
DeusMortisEst
In fact, Dale, I don't think I'm friends with any of these voters at all...
Posted by JasonGlenn 3 years ago
JasonGlenn
Hey Dale,,,, you lost our debate. Not one voter was a friend of mine.
Posted by CIIReligion 3 years ago
CIIReligion
Dale, if I was able to vote, I would vote for you, because I feel the mentally handicapped need to have a few points for effort!
Posted by DeusMortisEst 3 years ago
DeusMortisEst
It doesn't need to count to you...
Posted by Dale.G 3 years ago
Dale.G
I see some of the people who voted for Paddy are Paddy friends to me that dose not count checkmate Paddy lol
Posted by CIIReligion 3 years ago
CIIReligion
As I have learned on here, debates will continue in the comments section, but it is mostly trash talk. All Dale is doing is wasting his breath. He needs to learn to save it for another debate. It will do no good to have it here.
11 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by DWolf2k2 3 years ago
DWolf2k2
Dale.GDeusMortisEstTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Cross-apply minstrel and Deadlykris' reasons to my votes. In truth, it appears Pro was trying to be underhanded in working with a very literal definition of the word 'Prove' on his opponent while keeping his burden low, and I would have just been as satisfied if Con ran the Topicality in R2.
Vote Placed by minstrel 3 years ago
minstrel
Dale.GDeusMortisEstTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro was disrespectful, nearly incomprehensible, and the evidence he didn't present anything that constituted evidence.
Vote Placed by Deadlykris 3 years ago
Deadlykris
Dale.GDeusMortisEstTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Dreams and visions have no relevance in the real world. To try and prove your point by stating you had dreams and visions does nothing; you need to prove that the dreams are meaningful and that the visions are more than dreams, and also meaningful. You fail to even attempt at that. Con could have just posted "prove it" in each round and, despite losing points, would still still have won.
Vote Placed by DeFool 3 years ago
DeFool
Dale.GDeusMortisEstTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro argues that his dreams were "real," which Con agrees they were. Con counters that these dreams were not divine in nature. Perhaps too deranged to comprehend this, Pro begins to rant almost incoherently in response. "God is Dead" hasn't much work to do - however he never quite explains how it is necessary that the dreams must be "divine" in nature in order to be "real." I was looking for this. Although lunatic, I believe that the resolution here only required that Jesus Christ exist - at all. I often note (to agnostics) that this is a literary tradition, and not a "real god," just as Dracula is a literary character and not a "real" monster that might elegantly bite unwary fiancees. In that same sense, dream-Jesus is, although not an extra dimensional space alien, nevertheless still "real," as a "real dream" that this madman Dale G. once had. I belatedly noted the use of the name "Paddy," rather than respectful address (Con, or DuesMortisEst.) This requires a conduct point.
Vote Placed by rowsdower 3 years ago
rowsdower
Dale.GDeusMortisEstTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro has atrocious spelling and grammar. Pro admits at one point he has no argument. Pro used no sources whatsoever. Pro really needs to stop using "me quote/"
Vote Placed by CIIReligion 3 years ago
CIIReligion
Dale.GDeusMortisEstTied
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Reasons for voting decision: PRO has no good arguments
Vote Placed by GarretKadeDupre 3 years ago
GarretKadeDupre
Dale.GDeusMortisEstTied
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Reasons for voting decision: LOL WUT
Vote Placed by dylancatlow 3 years ago
dylancatlow
Dale.GDeusMortisEstTied
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Reasons for voting decision: I will try this time to provide a good RFD Con made more convincing arguments because he negated Pro's arguments that dreams do not equal reality, thus, dreams cannot prove anything. Dreams take data from the mind and configure, by definition, false realities as proven by Con. Also, people have dreams about things all the time. Are all those things real, too? Good job to Con. Also, Con beats pro in spelling an grammar as seen from this quote (an example of con's illiteracy) "/ Me Quote this is what I will say to Paddy, here is a Question? do? dreams/visions happen" This is nonsensical....
Vote Placed by bladerunner060 3 years ago
bladerunner060
Dale.GDeusMortisEstTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Conduct, in part, because of Pros constant referring to his opponent as "Paddy". S&G for obvious reasons. And Pro made not a single convincing argument for the position.
Vote Placed by tmar19652 3 years ago
tmar19652
Dale.GDeusMortisEstTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro had absolutely no evidence or sources whatsoever!