The Instigator
JBphilo
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Bogcha
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

"I think" tells us nothing about the self other than it exists.

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/5/2015 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 397 times Debate No: 74796
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)

 

JBphilo

Pro

We have thoughts. In order to have thoughts there must be a thinker. We have no thought of this thinker. We can only know something if it is an object of thought. Therefore, we can know nothing about the self. All we can know is that it exists. THis is because it is a necessity for having thoughts at all.
Bogcha

Con

I will gladly accept this challenge and jump into discussion as the Pro.

Thinker: a person who theorizes deeply and seriously;
Thought: an idea or opinion produced by thinking or occurring suddenly in the mind;

" the thinker is the thought. We would like it to be different so that the thinker may explain the things to himself by means of the thought. " J. Krishnamurti
This statement overrules Pro's argument regarding no thought of the thinker. If the thinker does not exist or his presence (passive in nature) is not present in the pattern of thought then thought ceases to exist.

"We can only know something if it is an object of thought." That is not always the case. In events that require quick reactions (ie. touch a hot surface) your body reacts without thought (reflex). We did not know that the surface is hot since if we were to rationalize and think of it we will get burned before we are able to react.

"Therefore, we can know nothing about the self." Since this statement is based on the one above and the one above i have disprove it, i will give you another example. In the event of absence of thought in which you characterize it by no awareness of one's self, an individual in a coma (a state of deep unconsciousness) will still have a thought pattern (brain still active) proof being some people waking up are able to recall their dream/s [1]

"All we can know is that it exists." If thought exists without a sentient being to create that thought then none of this would exist. I will not go into detail into this but look at things such as Big Bang, Double slit experiment etc.

[1] http://www.reddit.com...
Debate Round No. 1
JBphilo

Pro

JBphilo forfeited this round.
Bogcha

Con

Awaiting your response
Debate Round No. 2
JBphilo

Pro

JBphilo forfeited this round.
Bogcha

Con

I suppose the instigator did not have time to debate the subject of the matter. VOTE CON!! :)
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by canis 1 year ago
canis
Yes in our minds we are truly free... like Water in the see. Forces of/in nature makes this Water into Growth. Tears. Ice. Rain. Tsunamis...Minds/thoughts/nature = what happens. A result of what is the only thing that could happen....
Posted by Furyan5 1 year ago
Furyan5
Yes. Everything you see, hear, taste, touch and feel could be fake but even if they are the emotions you feel are real. Love, anger, fear, sorrow, etc. And for a few lucky ones they have the ability to create. Stories, paintings, songs, etc. One final thing that is real is our thoughts. Our thoughts not only define us, but they define our reality as well. The real world may have set rules for us to follow, but in our minds there are only self imposed rules. In our minds we are truly free.
Posted by Bogcha 1 year ago
Bogcha
@drag0vien

Simulation: imitation of the operation of a real world system over time.

Morpheus: What is real? How do you define 'real'? If you're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then 'real' is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain.

If this is all a simulation then thought are also simulated by us. A simulation cannot simulate another simulation as the definition implies. Hope this answers all your questions. Go spread the truth.....
Posted by drag0vien 1 year ago
drag0vien
How are you certain you exist? You could be a simulation.
Posted by canis 1 year ago
canis
There is no point... Computers have software. In order to have software there must be a computer...
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