The Instigator
TheEpicGlassesGuy
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
JohnMaynardKeynes
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points

I will lose this debate.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
JohnMaynardKeynes
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/4/2014 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 479 times Debate No: 54007
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (2)

 

TheEpicGlassesGuy

Pro

I will lose this debate.

Round 1 - Acceptance
Round 2 - Argument
Round 2 - Argument and Closing Statement.
JohnMaynardKeynes

Con

I accept this challenge.

I would like to note that Pro has made an affirmative statement before the debate was even accepted -- his asserion that he would lose the debate. Therefore, he has the burden of proof to affirm not only the end result that he has postulated, but that he knew beforehand and had the means by which to have prior knowledge of this end result. His use of the word "will" implies as much, which casts away any ambiguity that his argument may have or could have entailed. The first question he must answer, for instance, is how either of us could answer prior to the voting period who in fact won this debate. Because Pro has the burden of proof, he must prove to you that he will lose. I only must neutralize his points. Then, he may go on to argue that his resolution extends beyond the confines of this debate -- that is, if a few members vote in favor of me, than he was in fact correct, and as such should be awarded the victory. I would not only point out the self-reinforcing effect -- that is, each time he pulls ahead, he would be proven wrong, and thus those members would be obligated to change their votes, leading to an unrelenting cycle -- but also that DDO rules require that voting be predicated on what actually took place in his our debate. So using votes as the gauge for who ought to win is not allowed, and is not a proper barometer for who will win this debate, and thus it cannot support Pro's argument.

With this said, I await an interesting debate. Best of luck to you, Pro.
Debate Round No. 1
TheEpicGlassesGuy

Pro

TheEpicGlassesGuy forfeited this round.
JohnMaynardKeynes

Con

At this point, I'd like to note that Pro still has not fulfilled his burden of proof. But let me summarize my case thus far and re-examine his burden.

In order to ultimately win this debate, there actually is no paradox: I do not have to argue that my opponent will lose and that I will win. Even if I were to win, this still does not prove Pro's case because the end does not justify the means.

The mere fact that there is a possibility that Pro may still win, or that the debate would end in a tie -- let's say that no one decided to vote, so we ended in a 0 to 0 tie -- disproves his case. As I said, he must argue that he had prior knowledge of and can substantiate the fact that he will lose this debate. But that's incoherent: votebombing, lack of interest in voting, et al. could easily change this result.

Then he could argue that simply not posting any arguments in spite of being online means that he should in theory lose the conduct point and thus lose the debate. First and foremost, you cannot reason from this that becaue many people would dock the conduct point, that he would lose the debate, and thus win the debate, and deserves the points. That logic, again, extends ad infinitum, and voters must only consider the contents of this debate before making their decisions. There is no causal relationship between forfeitting nd losing: there's only a correlation. One could forfeit, and either win on arguments, which counts for three times the amount of points that conduct does, or we could tie due to lack of interest.

So, again, even if I were to argue that I should win this debate because my opponent has not fulfilled his burden of proof, I am not arguing that I will. That burden of proof is on my opponent, and he must be able to prove that in the next round in order to have a chance. And, if he doesn't prove it, he hasn't fulfilled his burden nor provided a single credible argument.
Debate Round No. 2
TheEpicGlassesGuy

Pro

TheEpicGlassesGuy forfeited this round.
JohnMaynardKeynes

Con

My opponent has forfeitted every round. May I remind you all that he has not fulfilled his burden of proof which required him to prove that he had prior knowledge of the fact that he was ultimately going to lose the debate, and that this remark had truth value. He has not done that.
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by JohnMaynardKeynes 2 years ago
JohnMaynardKeynes
Clearly you didn't read my arguments completely debunking that thesis.
Posted by TheEpicGlassesGuy 2 years ago
TheEpicGlassesGuy
I won because I lost... Just sayin
Posted by JohnMaynardKeynes 2 years ago
JohnMaynardKeynes
I wanted to point out that the end result of the debate is largely inconsequential to how people ought to vote, because he must be able to prove in absolute terms beyond a reasonable doubt that he had knowledge of the end result -- it's almost a case of causal determinism.
Posted by JohnMaynardKeynes 2 years ago
JohnMaynardKeynes
I'm aware. But, in accepting, I laid out my observation of the BOP. That wasn't to be interpreted as an argument.
Posted by Actionsspeak 2 years ago
Actionsspeak
Con, round one is just acceptance XD.
Posted by Boesball 2 years ago
Boesball
Technically this debate messes with logic.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
TheEpicGlassesGuyJohnMaynardKeynesTied
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Total points awarded:31 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro was correct. He will lose this debate.
Vote Placed by progressivedem22 2 years ago
progressivedem22
TheEpicGlassesGuyJohnMaynardKeynesTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro forfeited every round, so all points to Con.