The Instigator
S98-SAMMAN
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
ReformedArsenal
Con (against)
Winning
12 Points

I will not contradict myself!

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
ReformedArsenal
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/20/2011 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,794 times Debate No: 18410
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (22)
Votes (4)

 

S98-SAMMAN

Pro

Rules:

1. CON must post 10 questions, directed at PRO, that could be answered with a 'yes' or 'no' or else CON loses. This does not apply to the final round.

2. PRO must respond to all questions posed by CON in some manner or else PRO loses.

3. If PRO's response does not give any opinion (e.g. "I don't know" or "I'm not sure"), then CON is entitled to another question next round. This is the only reason CON may post more than 10 questions.

4. PRO wins if he is found never to have contradicted himself. Likewise, CON wins if he can prove that PRO has contradicted himself.

5. Only statements made by PRO in rounds 2, 3, and 4 of this debate are subject to be examined for contradiction. No outside sources (my profile, previous debates, etc.) are applicable. Statements made by PRO in this debate not in direct response to any question posed by CON are still applicable.

6. Round 5 no more questions can be asked, it is for final defense of PRO that in the previous rounds he has not contradicted himself and CON to make his/her finale case that PRO in fact did contradict himself.

Good luck to whoever my opponent may be. I look forward to a fun debate.
ReformedArsenal

Con

1) Do you believe in the God of Islam?
2) Do you believe in the God of Abraham?
3) Do you believe in the Christian God?
4) Is God a Trinity?
5) Do you beat your wife?
6) Is it acceptable to beat your wife?
7) Do you still beat your wife?
8) Have you ever beat your wife?
9) Do your parents know you're going to lose this debate?
10) Are you going to lose this debate?
Debate Round No. 1
S98-SAMMAN

Pro

Thank you for accepting my debate. I look forward to a very fun debate. I look forward to reading your response.

1. I do believe in the god of islam

2. I do believe in the god of abraham.

3. I believe the christian god to be a prophet of the islamic god.

4. I do not believe god is a trinity.

5. I am not married.

6. I do not believe it is acceptable.

7. I am not married.

8. I am not married.

9. I will not lose this debate.

10. I will not lose this debate.
ReformedArsenal

Con

1) Do you believe that the Koran is an authoratative document?
2) Do you believe in monotheism?
3) Do you believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?
4) Do you believe that a man should be allowed to have more than one wife?
5) Do you believe believe that Jesus was God?
6) Do you believe that Isaac was the child of Promise?
7) Do you believe that I am actually writing this question?
8) Do you know that I am not a robot?
9) Can you know that I am not a robot?
10) Can you really know that I am not a robot?
Debate Round No. 2
S98-SAMMAN

Pro

Thanks for a timely response. Now, to the debate.

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Yes because the god of all people, believers and nonbelievers, is the one and only, all mighty Allah.

4. I believe that this is his decision to make.

5. I believe Jesus was a prophet of god.

6.

7. I do believe that you are the one writing that question.

8. I do not know that you are not a robot.

9. It is possible for me to figure out whether or not you are a robot.

10. It is possible for me to figure out whether or not you are a robot.
ReformedArsenal

Con

1) Are there any false statements in the Koran?
2) Can a Prophet Lie?
3) Is Islam a religion of peace?
4) Is Islam a religion of tolerance?
5) Is it okay to kill those whom you disagree with?
6) If Jesus was a prophet of God, does that mean he was not God?
7) Isn't it possible that you cannot figure out wheather or not I am a robot?
8) If you do figure out that I am or am not a robot, is it possible for you to be wrong?
9) If it is possible for you to be wrong, can you really be sure that I am not a robot?
10) Do you know that you have already contradicted yourself in this debate?
Debate Round No. 3
S98-SAMMAN

Pro

S98-SAMMAN forfeited this round.
ReformedArsenal

Con

There is a clear winner in this debate as Pro has violated rule 2 (see below) of his original post by not responding to any of my questions in round 3. The debating time limit on this was not prohibitive as we can see from his responses in the comments that they were posted very quickly and could have been done at any time prior to the expiration of the round.

"2. PRO must respond to all questions posed by CON in some manner or else PRO loses."

I would like all persons voting on this debate to vote for me in Arguments, but for RFD I would like you to indicate if you think that there were legitimate contradictions (I'm curious what people think).

I have identified 2 distinct contradictions (as well as a 3rd secondary contradiction) that I will explain presently.

Contradiction 1 - The nature of God

In round 1 I asked "Do you believe in the Christian God?" and "Is God a Trinity?"

His answers to these two questions were contradictory. He answered "I believe the christian god to be a prophet of the islamic god." However, the Christian God is a Trinity, so he is saying that "The Trinity is a Prophet of the Islamic God." By using the phrase "Christian God" he has indicated that he believes this entity exists, exists as God (by calling him "God"), and exists as a Trinity (by calling it "Christian"). This is a clear contradiction to his answer "of "I do not believe god is a trinity."

Contradiction 2 - Beating your Wife?

In round 1 I also asked "Is it acceptable to beat your wife?" to which he answered "I do not believe it is acceptable."

This stands in contradiction to his answers to question 1 of round 2 [Q1.R2] (Do you believe that the Koran is an authoritative document?) and question 1 of round 3 [Q1.R3] (Are there any false statements in the Koran?). This is a contradiction, because the Koran teaches that it is indeed acceptable to beat your wife.

Koran 4:34 states that if a man fears that his wife will desert him that he should "admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them."

Also Koran 38:44 records Allah telling Job to beat his wife. "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath."

The Koran not only teaches that it is acceptable to beat your wife, in places it commands you to do so. As an authoritative document (His answer to Q1.R2) without any false statements (Q1.R3) it is a contradiction for him to state that it is unacceptable. Either he accepts it and finds the Koran authoritative and without falsities, or he denies it and finds the Koran unauthoritative and with falsities.

Contradiction 3 - I did not Contradict!

In round 3 I asked "Do you know that you have already contradicted yourself in this debate" to which my opponent answered "I know that I have not contradicted myself in this debate."

This is a secondary contradiction because his responses were entered in the comments, however we see from the prior two contradictions that he indeed had already contradicted himself, and therefore this answer is contradictory to the truth of rounds 1 and 2.

Again, I would like to urge you to vote Con due to rule violations, but would like to hear in the RFD comments if you think Pro actually contradicted himself.
Debate Round No. 4
22 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by ReformedArsenal 5 years ago
ReformedArsenal
MIG,

There are some groups that consider themselves to be Christian who do not hold to a view of the Trinity (Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses primarily, but also Oneness Pentecostals and various Unitarian groups), however those groups do not fit the definition of orthodox historic Christian faith and would be considered heretical/heterodox. The vast majority of Christians would define those groups as non-Christian, and even the groups who would not call those groups non-Christian would say that they are wrong about the Trinity (The exceptions being Liberal Christian groups who don't typically say that anyone is wrong about anything.)
Posted by Man-is-good 5 years ago
Man-is-good
*If he could have--(RFD)

Reformed, are there views that regard the Christian god to be not a trinity?
Posted by Patzer24 5 years ago
Patzer24
Extremely good debate. Great job, reformed. I love how con is resorting to the comment sections to "resolve" contradictions.
Posted by ReformedArsenal 5 years ago
ReformedArsenal
By definition... the Christian God is a trinity... your statement implies that the Christian God exists... and therefore your statement implied that the Trinity exists. You have lost.
Posted by S98-SAMMAN 5 years ago
S98-SAMMAN
I agree. What matters is what I said yet the problem in your statement is that there was no contradiction in what I said. I have already proved this matter. Either way I don't wish to argue with you. We will leave it to the voters and may the best man win.
Posted by ReformedArsenal 5 years ago
ReformedArsenal
There was no clarity... anyone can see it. Regardless, the contradiction is in what you said... not in what you believe or think, only in what you said.
Posted by S98-SAMMAN 5 years ago
S98-SAMMAN
If you misunderstood that doesn't mean I didn't clarify.
Posted by ReformedArsenal 5 years ago
ReformedArsenal
To be frank, it doesn't matter what you believe, only what you said. What you said is "The Christian God (which by definition is a Trinity, otherwise it cannot be the Christian God) is a Prophet of the Islamic God." You then said "God is not a trinity" even though you had acknowledged that the Christian God exists, by stating that he is a prophet of the Islamic God. You simply contradicted yourself by not clarifying. You lose.
Posted by ReformedArsenal 5 years ago
ReformedArsenal
To be frank, it doesn't matter what you believe, only what you said. What you said is "The Christian God (which by definition is a Trinity, otherwise it cannot be the Christian God) is a Prophet of the Islamic God." You then said "God is not a trinity" even though you had acknowledged that the Christian God exists, by stating that he is a prophet of the Islamic God. You simply contradicted yourself by not clarifying. You lose.
Posted by S98-SAMMAN 5 years ago
S98-SAMMAN
The christian god is believed to be a trinity by Christians, but since i'm Muslim, i don't believe that.
Don't be too cocky... Just saying... I already explained the beating your wife thing.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by jm_notguilty 5 years ago
jm_notguilty
S98-SAMMANReformedArsenalTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct to CON for PRO's forfeit, and as I commented, PRO already lost this one for a rule violation, and either way, he still loses since CON legitimately proved PRO contradicted himself.
Vote Placed by Man-is-good 5 years ago
Man-is-good
S98-SAMMANReformedArsenalTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro loses a point for conduct since his forfeit lead to a violation of his second rule. In additional, Reformed, as usual in these types of debates, cleverly weaved into two major contradictions, the more obvious of which was to show that Pro's lack of tolerance of beating women contradicted his faith in the Quran and his dismissal of the trinity and the acceptance of the Christian god as a prophet...though Pro should have challenged the statement, "the Christian God is a Trinity".....
Vote Placed by airmax1227 5 years ago
airmax1227
S98-SAMMANReformedArsenalTied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by Dimmitri.C 5 years ago
Dimmitri.C
S98-SAMMANReformedArsenalTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit.