The Instigator
Levin
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
wjmelements
Con (against)
Winning
58 Points

I will not contradict myself

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 9 votes the winner is...
wjmelements
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/9/2009 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,068 times Debate No: 8918
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (5)
Votes (9)

 

Levin

Pro

I would like to debate in a similar style as you debated Mongoose. The rules are as follows:

You may ask me any question about any subject that you wish.
I will answer these questions or give a reason I cannot answer some or all of them.
After I have answered you may then point out any contradictions that you see.
If your arguments for contradictions are valid you win. If your arguments are not valid or you find no contradictions, I win.
wjmelements

Con

While I tire of these debates, I plan to continue nontheless. I enjoy exploring paradoxes, as well as showing opponent's that their views are contradictory.

My opponent has not confined the amount of questions I may ask. I will try not to abuse this.

1. Is the answer to this question no?
2. When in conflict, should human life be valued over liberty?
3. Can killing an innocent be justified?
4. Should individuals be able to decide whether or not an individual lives?
5. When in conflict, should liberty be valued over security?
6. When in conflict, should security be valued over privacy?
7. When in conflict, should liberty be valued over environmental protection?
8. When in conflict, should environmental protection be valued over human life?
9. When in conflict, should justice be valued over fairness?
10. When in conflict, should justice be valued over human life?

11. Place the following values in order of priority when in conflict:
life
liberty
security
wealth
safety
subsistence
justice
fairness
environmental protection
comedy
truth
reputation
property rights
religious freedom
religious tolerance

I will stop here. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 1
Levin

Pro

I'd like to thank you for taking this debate. As I'm new to this site I've never encountered a debate of this style before and I saw how you destroyed your previous opponent in this debate and thought it would be fun to challenge your obvious skills in this area. Now, on to the questions.

1. This question cannot be answered because both a yes and no answer would result in a contradiction.
2. This question really depends on the situation. For instance, if someone murders a person in cold blood they have violated the liberty of another and have thus abdicated their own liberties. For the most part though, if life is not valued then liberties are not valued, thus I would value life, very slightly over liberty, though I believe the two are so interconnected that it is hard to seperate them.
3. If you are referring to an innocent human being, then I would say the only way you could justify killing an innocent person is if the lives of serveral more equally innocent persons lives were at risk.
4. In certain cases yes, for instance during warfare or a police officer on duty faced with a choice between killing or dying.
For questions five a six I am assuming that we are talking about Americans. If not, I could provide more detailed answers.
5. Yes
6. No
7. This is a tough questions because I'm trying to envision a time when environmental protection would infringe on a liberty. For instance I don't believe that it is a company's liberty to dump toxins. I just don't view that as a liberty. However, there may be a situation I'm not thinking of. I would say that any reasonable environmental measure wouldn't constitute a violation of liberty. So for now, I'll say yes.
8. Not unless more human lives are at risk by not protecting the environment.
9. I'm not sure of the difference of these two terms. So I don't believe I can answer this question without clarification.
10. This is interesting; I've never thought of this. I suppose it would depend on what the meaning of the word justice is. Until clarification I will say, no.

11. 1. a. life
1. b. liberty
security
safety
subsistence
religious freedom Two sides of the same coin so they could be interchanged.
religious tolerance
justice
fairness
environmental protection
property rights
wealth
truth
comedy
reputation
wjmelements

Con

I have an objection which is also a contradiction. My opponent chose not to answer my first question because "both a yes and no answer would result in a contradiction". This is not grounds for not answering my question. Obviously, "I contradict myself either way" is not an excuse not to answer a question. I am about to show why.

Referring back to my opponent's rules:
"I will answer these questions or give a reason [why] I cannot answer some or all of them."
So, the only reason my opponent would have for not answering a question is if he could not answer it.

Cannot is another spelling of can not (http://dictionary.reference.com...), and can is defined as any of the following:
-to be able to http://dictionary.reference.com...
-to know how to http://dictionary.reference.com...
-to have the power or means to http://dictionary.reference.com...
-to have the right or qualifications to http://dictionary.reference.com...
-may; have permission to http://dictionary.reference.com...
-to have the possibility http://dictionary.reference.com...

My opponent can obviously answer my question "Is the answer to this question no?" in all of these ways.
-He is able to write yes or no; nothing is stopping him.
-He knows how to write yes or no; he can surely type this.
-He has to means to write yes or not; one would not think otherwise, as he could answer other questions just fine.
-He has the qualifications to write yes or no; he is my opponent.
-He has permission to write yes or no, which is implied in the rules and by my asking.
-There is certainly the possibility of my opponent answering yes or no.

So, I would like my opponent to clarify which definition of can is meant in the rules and then explain why his not answering my question is not contradicting his rules stated in the first round.

If he cannot explain why it is physically impossible for him to leave an answer, then I will allow him to post an answer to my question again:
1. Is the answer to this question no?

New questions:
- What are your religious beliefs?
- What is your opinion on omnipotence?
- What is your opinion on omniscience?
- Do you believe that time had a starting point?
- Do you believe that time is required for change to occur in the physical universe?
- Do you believe that time is always moving forward?
- Do you believe that 0 can be counted to from negative infinity?
Debate Round No. 2
Levin

Pro

As per your first question I will answer it:

1. My answer is that the answer to this question is neither yes or no. Technically I have answered the question, I just haven't answered it yes or no. There are two reasons I cannot write yes or no for this answer. 1, in doing so I would enter into a logical contridiction and 2. I am not intellegent enough to answer in a satisfactory way. For instance if someone asked me to answer the question Who was the first King of England, I would not be able to answer this question because I do not have the intellegence to do so.

1. My relgious beliefs are fairly simple. I do not believe that it is possible for human beings to know the nature of God (if this entity does exist) while on Earth and I do not believe that any bible is the word of God, merely one or a group of people's opinion as to what they believed.
2. I believe that omnipotence is the charictaristic of being all powerful. If you want to know if I believe there is a God and he is all powerful, I have no idea.
3. This is pretty much the same answer as the previous question, other than the fact that omniscience means all-knowning not all powerful. As before I do not know if this quality is possible in any being.
4. Time having a starting point is something I don't believe that a person can know. This would lead to a a host of other unanswerable questions, like if God created the universe or if the universe has always existed. I don't believe it is possible to know the answer to this question in this life.
5. This is another tricky question, I suppose it would depend on the definition of time. If time is defined as the artificial construct of months, hours, days and weeks, then no. If you are defining the passage of time as the actual physical changes that we can see (as in the rotation of the Earth around the Sun) then change in the physical universe would be the definition of time.
6. I don't know that it always moves forward. I will say that, in general, in our universe and dimension the arrow of time seems to move in a direction that we call forward. However, I will allow that it is possible that in other dimensions time may move in a direction that we would call backwards, although in that universe I would think that they would call that direction forward and they would believe that our arrow of time moved backward.
7. If you are asking me if I think it is physically possible for a human being to count from the value negative infinity "up" to 0, then my answer is no. I do not believe this is possible.
wjmelements

Con

My opponent gives two reasons why he cannot answer my first question. They are:
1. He would enter into a logical contridiction.
2. He does not think he is intelligent enough to answer it in a satisfactory way.

The first reason, again, is invalid, as it in no way proves that he "can not" answer it. Being able to answer a question and being able to answer a question without contradicting one's self are two different excuses.
The second reason is false, and I intend to prove how he can still answer it:

-He can type an answer (my opponent has conceded this).
-This is a yes or no question (my opponent has conceded this).
-My opponent is physically capable of typing yes or no (my opponent has conceded this).

It matters not whether he can answer it correctly, as the rules clearly said he just had to answer my questions, unless he could not. Both of his reasons for not answering my questions contradict a rule that he stated in the first round.

My final questions:

A barber shaves all men that do not shave themselves.
-Does this barber shave himself?

-Is the word "heterological" a heterological word?
-In a democratic society, should people be able to end democracy?
-Should one tolerate intolerance if intolerance would destroy the possibility of tolerance?
-Did you answer the following question correctly?
-Are there more numbers with square roots than not?
-Could unlimited force move an immovable object?
Debate Round No. 3
Levin

Pro

The barber is a women and has no need to shave.

I must confess that I didn't know the definition of heterological. So I looked it up and the definition I got had to do with biological evolution. I'm not sure this is the correct definition, as I have no idea what this question would mean, so I'm going to have to pass it.
I believe that yes in a democratic society the people could (as their last democratic act) abolish their democracy.
If you asking if someone should tolerate intolerance if that other person's intolerance could destroy the possibility of tolerance, then my answer would be that this is impossible as the first person would apparently always be tolerate. As a practical matter, I try to be tolerate of people but I can only control my own feelings and not those of others.
If by "following" you mean the question that preceeded this one, I don't really believe there is a correct or incorrect answer, each person must answer it for him or herself.
Yes there are because you do not ask about perfect squares, just square roots. There are two reasons for this, first, the square root of zero is zero and all positive numbers have square roots up to infinity. Addtionally even the negative numbers have square roots, they are simply imaginary, but they are still square roots.
Another logical impossibility often used in religioius questions. Such as, could god create an immovable object and then move it. As these things don't exist in our world I don't believe it is possible to know the answer to this question.
wjmelements

Con

First, my opponent has conceded that he has contradicted his earlier statement in round 1. So, there is no reason to go on. However, that wouldn't be any fun.

My opponent misinterpretted my third-to-last question. It read "Did you answer the following question correctly?". This means the proceeding question, not the preceding one. Anyways, I will now assume that my opponent believed that he answered the proceeding question correctly, as he gave a definite answer.

My opponent states as an answer to the aforementioned question that there are more numbers with square roots than not. He answered this incorrectly, as one infinity can never be said to be greater than another.

He also answered the barber's paradox incorrectly. Women shave too. Here is where and how: http://www.ehow.com...

Anyways, my opponent contradicted himself in the 2nd round. He conceded that he did in the 4th round. So, the resolution is negated.

I thank my opponent for his challenge, and urge a CON vote.
Debate Round No. 4
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by wjmelements 7 years ago
wjmelements
Is the answer to the question below "Yes"?
Is the answer to the question above "No"?
Posted by Lifeisgood 7 years ago
Lifeisgood
B/A: Tie.
Conduct: Tie.
S/G: Con.
Arguments: Con.
Sources: Con.
Posted by untitled_entity 7 years ago
untitled_entity
Defaulted to CON, you got owned.
Posted by MTGandP 7 years ago
MTGandP
All categories defaulted to CON.
Posted by studentathletechristian8 7 years ago
studentathletechristian8
Great argument by wjmelemnts
9 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Vote Placed by Lifeisgood 7 years ago
Lifeisgood
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Vote Placed by mongoose 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by untitled_entity 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by patsox834 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by MTGandP 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by studentathletechristian8 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by wjmelements 7 years ago
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