I would rather draft Ricky Rubio to my team than Kyrie Irving.
Debate Rounds (3)
Please don't get to narrowed in on stats, altough you can, of course, use stats as a tool in the debate.
If a draft were to be held today, I would take Kyrie Irving over Ricky Rubio because he is both younger and has shown greater signs of potential than Rubio.
For starters, it should be noted that Rubio was originally drafted in 2009 but did not play for the Minnesota Timberwolves either that season or the year after. The fact that Rubio did not sign with the team until 2011 shows a lack of maturity and commitment, two marks of a bonafide NBA basketball player. This shows in his stats for his rookie campaign, which saw him play in only forty one games (he started thirty one) while posting a 0.357 FG% while averaging 10.6 PPG.
Kyrie Irving, meanwhile, played in fifty one games, all of which he started, and posted a 0.469 FG% while averaging 18.5 PPG. Irving did this on a team that was worse than the one Rubio played on while averaging significantly fewer minutes per game. Irving's superior efforts paid off as he was selected over Rubio as NBA Rookie of the Year last season.
Both Ricky Rubio and Kyrie Irving are talented players, but I would rather draft Irving because he has posted superior numbers and is younger and more mature than Rubio, the latter of which is evident by Rubio's negligence of his duties to play in Minnesota for two seasons after he was drafted by the Timberwolves.
Passing & Playmaking Abilities:
Rubio's ability to see the whole court is a commodity and and a "gift", the only players that come to mind who has "that" is: Magic, Nash, Isaiah and Stockton, possibly Big O or Kidd, at least no other Rookies. Players with this kind of talent is few and very precious to this league. If you observe the great up and coming, young, Point Guards of the future, like Rose, Westbrook, Wall and Irving, it's very rare that they have a court-vision on this level. The only young Point Guard who has this kind of court-vision is Rajon Rondo, he's also a very unique and precious player who doesn't come around that often. Why court-vision is so precious and vital? you can't really practice it, in my point of view, you either have it or you don't.
There are a lot of player that can score and create for themselves in the NBA, but a "true" Point Guard is a very rare product these days and are always going to be needed in the NBA. I don't think I need to explain why this kind of team player is so vital to a team's success, I would draft a pass first Point Guard instead of a scoring Point Guard any day of the week. Even tough Rubio only has played 40 NBA games, he have received praise for his playmaking abilities. Just look at some of his highlights, there have been a fair few assists that have gone straight through the legs of defenders.
If you observe championship teams they always have focusing moving the ball, an unselfish player who inherit this pass first, shoot second mindset encourage this more than a scoring Point Guard.
Rubio also led all rookies in assists and ranked 6th in Assists Per Game in the league. If you were to draft either a scoring Point Guard a la Derrick Rose or a creating Point Guard a la Steve Nash, of course it depends on the situation your team are in, but I would in nine out of ten times, draft the creating type.
One of Ricky Rubio's greatest strengths is his court vision and playmaking abilities but he is also fast up the court. He's smart enough to dial it back to make sure he doesn't outrun his teammates, but when he run's in transition, he's one of the fastest guys in the league. His decision making and playmaking abilities when running at high speed also makes it a tough day at work for the other team's defenders.
Abilities & Potential:
As you said, It's a fact that Rubio is older by two years (1990 vs. 1992) and that Kyrie Irving has tremendous potential to be a great player, maybe even an All-Star .But, in my eyes, Rubio have equal or even higher potential than Kyrie Irving. Of course that's something that lies in the eyes of the viewer.
definitely more of a distributor so him averaging less points in more minutes doesn't come as a surprise to anyone, timberwolves has kevin love and other plsayers to score rubio is the pont guard hes supposed to get other players involved. More true pg. the fact that he play more minutes I see as a form of durability and great physical shape to play those kind of minutes and again timberwolves can play other guard like barea but decides not to because of rubios ability to play big minutes. Rubio also averaged 0.5 more rebounds and2.8 more assists 1.1 (double) steals in those minutes but trailing irvings ppg bpg fg ft and 3p percentage, you be the judge whos stats is more valuable.
As I have stated earlier: Rubio is not a scorer in the same sense like Kyrie Irving, He is definitely more of a distributor, so him averaging less points in more minutes doesn't really come as a surprise to anyone. The Timberwolves doesn't need Rubio to score that much since they already have: Love, Williams, Johnson and Beasley. Rubio is the Point Guard, he's supposed to get other players involved. The fact that Rubio plays more minutes I see as a sign of durability and a great physical shape in order to play those big minutes. The Timberwolves could utilize other Point Guards like Ridnour or Barea if needed but decides not to because of Rubios ability to play big minutes.
Rubio also averaged 2.8 more Assists, 0.5 more Rebounds and 1.1 (double) more Steals in those minutes but trailing Irving in Points, Blocks, Field Goal%, Free-Throw% and Three-Point%. You be the judge who's stats is more valuable
Ricky Rubio is an unselfish leader who is capable of leading a franchise, maybe to championships? I can't stress this enough: "Ricky Rubio is an unselfish player who creates for others, not only himself". He also have that type of smile when playing the game that the superstars often have (Magic Johnson, maybe?). You had, as I see it, some issue with Rubio's maturity. I see him as the complete opposite of that: as an NBA rarity, as he is very mature and unselfish person and player, and here is why:
Rubio were drafted in 2009 and were the first NBA player who were born in the 90's, but he was already a very established player in Spain and Europe, in spite of his age. Considered a Wunderkind and a child prodigy, he played for professional spanish clubs at 14 years of age. It was understandable for him to go back to Spain as he felt he wanted more experience, It's not easy as a foreigner being drafted high, learn a new langauge, coming to a new continent and deliver at the highest level right away or else being labeled as a bust. He came to a new country and delivered right away, won the first Rookie of the Month Award as well as dealing with fame and attention in a very humble, mature and professional way.
Rubio quoted after the draft:
"The reason leading me to take this next step is to have a period of preparation to better take the challenge of the NBA in better conditions as a player. The Minnesota Timberwolves continue to be my first option and I wish to play with them in the near future".
Is that really immature J.R. Smith/Metta World Peace like behaviour?
David Kahn were also quoted on the matter:
"It's just been a tough summer. From an 18-year-old's perspective and his family's perspective, it was very nerve-racking"
I think Ricky handled it well.
Ricky Rubio loves to play basketball and shows it on the court. If he played for a big-market team like: The Lakers, The Knicks or The Celtics fans would rush to the arena to watch Rubio do his thing.
When Rubio got hurt, all of the tweets from fellow NBA players showed how much the rest of the league cares for and likes him.
Season Ending Injury:
About the torn ACL, I was thinking more of a drafting situation where you could draft stars like Derrick Rose who also currently dealing with the same injury, does that mean you would draft Michael Beasley number 1 that year. Also, players like David West, Kendrick Perkins, Baron Davis and Al Jefferson have successfully recovered from torn ACL's. Some have come back better than ever. You can't foresee the future.
The injury made the Wolves come up short in the playoff race
It is clear Rubio is something special, drawing comparisons to Steve Nash and "Pistol" Pete Maravich in his rookie year.
Rubio's court vision was cited as one of his main advantages over Kyrie Irving, but how is this measured? Assuming all players have capable eyesight, all should be able to see the court equally and thus posses equal court vision. Unless my opponent can prove that Rubio's eyesight is significantly better than that of Irving, or cite a statistic that proves that Rubio possesses a greater degree of court vision, I must wholly reject their argument on the grounds that you have failed to offer proper support for it.
He also stated that Rubio is more of a complete player than Irving, while Irving is more of a pure scorer. While this may be true, it does not justify drafting him over Irving. The goal of all thirty teams in the NBA is to win as many games as possible during the regular season in order to reach the playoffs. The only way a team can win games is if it can score points. In order to score points, a team must have players that are capable of doing so. My opponent asserts that Minnesota already possessed pure scorers at the time of the Draft and thus valued a more complete player who could assist said scorers, but this does not describe the situation of a typical team that possesses a high pick in the Draft. More often than not, teams are in need of scorers, which is why Irving makes much more sense in the context of the question.
Furthermore, I did not suggest that Rubio was acting immature in a J.R. Smith or Metta World Peace type way. What I did assert, however, was that entering the Draft (thus agreeing in principle to play that season for whoever happens to select you) and refusing to sign with Minnesota afterwards exhibited a lack of maturity. If Rubio was not ready to play for the NBA in 2009, he should have a.) avoided the Draft completely or b.) notified teams that he would not be ready for at least a couple of seasons prior to the Draft so that they would have that knowledge beforehand. Rubio did neither of these things, and for that, he acted in an immature manner.
Finally, about the injury. It is true that a large number of players have successfully returned from similar injuries, but what about all the ones that didn't? Clearly, the fact that Irving is both a safer and better player than Rubio makes him deserving of being drafted before Rubio.
Oak forfeited this round.
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