The Instigator
Thiest_1998
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
Finalfan
Con (against)
Winning
2 Points

IF there IS NO GOD HOW DO YOU TELL RIGHT FROM WRONG

Do you like this debate?NoYes+3
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Finalfan
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/24/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 11 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 708 times Debate No: 83029
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (22)
Votes (2)

 

Thiest_1998

Pro

It is impossible to tell right from wrong if there is no God prove me wrong
Finalfan

Con

I gladly accept this debate! I will not use this round for arguments. I would like my opponent to start. I have heard this claim many times! I have yet to hear a reason why and would like to know what I'm up against. I wish Mr. Theist luck and I hope for a solid debate!
Debate Round No. 1
Thiest_1998

Pro

Well if there is no God why don't we do what ever we want (EXAMPLE) I'm really angry I lost a game of fifa on my xbox I am going to take my anger out on a random stranger on the street by stabbing him in the throat or a different scenario I want a new xbox 1 so I am gonna rob that elderly man outside, now you can see how things can really get out of hand but because I believe that there is a God who loves us and wants us to live in peace he inspired Man to write a book called the bible with rules showing us how to live and showing us his great Love for us and if there is anything in the bible that you think is wrong please do say on your reply
Finalfan

Con

The superiority of secular morality! I will need to defend that statement. By doing so I will also be analyzing the Bible as a source for morality!
What is morality? Is it simply drawing a line in the sand over right and wrong? Is it an agreement that "subject A" is either good or bad? Ultimately morality is about well being. Whenever you come to a moral dilemma. It means that in order for someone to be well off, someone else needs to make a sacrifice!
I feel as though I need to make this clear! If we cannot find common ground on how right and wrong are determined we will be talking past each other and get nowhere!

Your example: Without god I would eat babies.. why not?
First off I switched to eating babies instead of slitting the strangers throat! They pretty much come to the same conclusion.. Without God and the bible we would all be baby eating monsters.. Why wouldn't we be?
If you were to argue that I am civil and do not eat babies because of God's law! I would have to assure you that I reject the bible and any concept of God as my authority.. Yet I do not eat babies! Where does my morality come from? Why do you need to be commanded to be "Good or bad"? I follow no commandment and somehow maintain a moral lifestyle!

You wanted me to show where the bible is not a good source for morality! First off I would like to hear from you that it is "Good" to own a human being as property? Is it "Good" to force a woman to marry the man who raped her? Is it justified to murder your child for being unruly? These are commandments.. Orders to follow! They are immoral! IF you are not trying to determine the best outcome for a situation and just following a Dictator you are amoral or without morality

By evaluating any given situation we can maximize our well being while knowing that the well being of others benefits us all! Add a little empathy and compassion.. Bamm!! You have your system of morality that is completely independent from ever needing to be told to be "Good" The fact that you think you would slit someone's throat means you do not understand morality or that you should definitely keep reading your bible if that helps you keep the demons at bay! I will be over here.. being a good person without anyone forcing me! If I'm a violent person I should expect to get hurt! If I am disrespectful to others they will be disrespectful to me! This is just an example of natural systems working to help me make a better judgement when evaluation a situation!
Oh.. They also have a law and justice system to deter you from your Xbox rage stabbings!
P.S. How does God's Morality account for Hell?
Debate Round No. 2
Thiest_1998

Pro

You're right if we cannot find common ground we would get no where that's why there is a God who loves us inspired over 7 people to write a book called the bible which is historically correct scientifically accurate and morally correct word for word chapter for chapter because if he leaves us to judge right from wrong then its chaos for example Hitler and the Nazis by the way I don't need to say what they did I hope you know your history more examples Joseph stalin, Pol Pot, Isis, slavery and many more and there might be more in the future but if we obey what God says maybe we would have a better society.

WOAHHHH...... I never said without God you would eat babies or anyone eating babies so don't go down that route go to Specsavers and learn how to my point was that if we feel like doing something no matter how bad it affects someone in the long run do it because there is o God and there is nobody who is better than you to tell you what to do with your life and the choices you make (Do you see how things can quickly get out of hand) if there is no God why aren't thing even worse than it is now.

You haven't showed me how the Bible isn't a good source of morality, you haven't showed me where in the it say that we can own another human being as property, or to force a woman to marry the man who raped her, or murder your child for being unruly show me where in the BIBLE God commanding us to do that, we also read the Bible to understand God a little bit more, learning how to live a good life AND answering the 4 fundamental questions of life.
1. Who am I
2.What am I worth
3.Why am I here
4,And where do I go when I die
atheist would answer
1. (His or her name)
2. What's in my pocket
3.?
4. nowhere that's it
A Christian would answer
1. A child of the living God
2.Everything to him you're are worth more than the rarest piece of Diamond or Gold in the whole universe!!!
3.To love God and Love everyone as he loves us obey his laws and live in peace.
4.If you are a born again Christian Go to heaven and live in paradise no more pain no more suffering no more tears just happiness.
(P'S reply) God created us he loves us but if we want to disobey him he will allow us but one day we will be punished for our wrong doings that's justice
P'S if you don't want to be punished I suggest you give your heart to God the Bible says Romans 10:13 King James Version For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. there are no magic words Gods looking at your heart.
p's how do you tell right from wrong if there is no God and how is the Holy Bible immoral.
Finalfan

Con

that's why there is a God"
I'm going to need to learn how you got from common ground to That is why God exists.. Please explain!

"historically correct scientifically accurate and morally correct word for word chapter for chapter"
An even bolder assertion! I'm going to need evidence for that as well! Especially the part where you said "scientifically accurate" You also made the assertion that it is morally correct without demonstrating the truth of that claim! Am I going to have to educate you about evolution by natural selection to prove my point?

"if he leaves us to judge right from wrong then its chaos "
That is assuming God exists! You need to prove the existence of God to make that claim. Otherwise we come to moral conclusions on our own! Hopefully you don't bring up Hitler or Stalin!

"Hitler.. Stalin.. Pol Pot"
That is called the Atheist Atrocities Fallacy!
""... I believe one thing: there is a Lord God! And this Lord God creates the peoples." ~Adolf Hitler
https://richarddawkins.net...

Wait!!! Back up!! Did you say Isis? You really need to explain that one! Now I think you are Trolling me a bit
Then you said slavery.. Yup!! I think I'm being Trolled here!

"I never said without God you would eat babies "

Read it again! You said you will slit someone's throat if you did not have the bible to tell you not to.. I transferred it over to eating babies because you are hitting me with a classic theism argument.. Most people just say eat babies instead of slitting someone's throat because you got Killed in Call of Duty! It is just as ridiculous to say you need God to not slit someone's throat.. I truly hope that is not true and you are either going to extremes to prove your train wreck of a point or you are trolling me.. Which I think you are! You have hit me with ever single argument that has been refuted hundreds of times! Either you know that and are messing with me or you are seriously dusting off the bloated corpse of an idea and poisoning this debate with its rot!

"if we feel like doing something no matter how bad it affects someone in the long run do it because there is o God"???

I'm sorry! You need to prove God exists for this argument to work! I'm the default position where morality is natural and without any requirement of a God or God's! You completely ignored my entire opening argument.. or are using selective ignorance to keep your argument afloat? I still think you are messing with me!

" there is nobody who is better than you to tell you what to do with your life and the choices you make"

Good! That is what I'm trying to say.. It is up to us.. You can follow commandments all you want! That has nothing to do with right or wrong it is simply "a dog who doesn't get up on the couch without even knowing why" Thanks to Tracy Harris for that one :) It is AMORAL!!! Some of the Bibles commandments are IMMORAL!!! You must address this!

"You haven't showed me how the Bible isn't a good source of morality, you haven't showed me where in the it say that we can own another human being as property, or to force a woman to marry the man who raped her, or murder your child for being unruly show me where in the BIBLE God commanding us to do that"

Muahahaha!! I'm glad you asked!

Slavery: Leviticus 25:44-46, Exodus 21:7-11, Exodus 21:20-21, Ephesians 6:5, 1 Timothy 6:1-2, Luke 12:47-48
Rape: Judges 21:10-24, Numbers 31:7-18, Deuteronomy 20:10-14, 2 Samuel 12:11-14, Deuteronomy 21:10-14, Judges 5:30

"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her."- Deuteronomy 22:28-29

"If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever." Exodus 21-2-6

You have a lot of work ahead of you! My bet is it will be tough to reconcile your own morality with your God's! You do not realize.. You are better than your God!

1. Who am I
2.What am I worth
3.Why am I here
4,And where do I go when I die

1. That is a vague question! It can be answered in countless ways! Saying your name is learned behavior because know one is actually trying to get down to the existential meaning of who you are.. They just want to know your name!

2. Same conclusion! Soooo many different ways to answer it! You pointed to money even though we both know you meant purpose or meaning in life! We are the beholders of all purpose and all meaning! It does not exist outside a functioning brain! I know you want absolutes! Unfortunately we are not the beholder of absolutes! That you claim is God's Job! However you have failed to prove God exists or that he is even moral!

3. I'm going to lump this in with meaning and purpose!

4. Who said Nowhere? That is a bold assertion and I would need proof of that as well! The appropriate answer is: I DO NOT KNOW! Its pretty easy to admit and you do not end up looking silly trying to pretend to know answers that you could not possibly know.. Unless you have some evidence perhaps?? The Bible is not evidence

" God created us he loves us but if we want to disobey him he will allow us but one day we will be punished for our wrong doings that's justice"

You believe that Hell is that punishment? What is Hell.. In your belief? I find that to be horrifyingly immoral but you seem to be ok with God's plan.. So tell me.. What are you ok with.. That I will experience Eternal torture"? Doesn't that make God.. Worse than me? I would never do that to anyone.. especially those I claim to love! I began a debate a year ago about the repulsiveness of Abraham's God and the Christian religion! Perhaps I will have to just flat out show you that the Book you read is vile and should be seen as Fiction only! To do otherwise is madness ;)

"p's how do you tell right from wrong if there is no God and how is the Holy Bible immoral."

Look familiar?....

Ultimately morality is about well being.
Whenever you come to a moral dilemma. It means that in order for someone to be well off, someone else needs to make a sacrifice!
I have to assure you that I reject the bible and any concept of God as my authority.. Yet I do not eat babies! Where does my morality come from? Why do you need to be commanded to be "Good or bad"? I follow no commandment and somehow maintain a moral lifestyle!
By evaluating any given situation we can maximize our well being while knowing that the well being of others benefits us all! Add a little empathy and compassion.. Bamm!! You have your system of morality that is completely independent from ever needing to be told to be "Good"
The fact that you think you would slit someone's throat means you do not understand morality or that you should definitely keep reading your bible if that helps you keep the demons at bay! I will be over here.. being a good person without anyone forcing me! If I'm a violent person I should expect to get hurt! If I am disrespectful to others they will be disrespectful to me! This is just an example of natural systems working to help me make a better judgement when evaluation a situation!
They also have a law and justice..
Debate Round No. 3
Thiest_1998

Pro

For starter the bible is Morally correct YOU CANNOT PROVE ME WRONG ON THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it is impossible.
Secondly (example) there is evidence of a flood, if you know a little bit of physical science there are millions and millions of coal in the earth, firstly, how did the coal form it is formed by quick burial in mud or ash now does a phenomenon like this accur all over the world because coal is coal is found all over the world maybe a flood did it about 1600 years ago if evolution is true how do you explain the canyons found all over the world and the frozen mammoths.
I did not say I would slit someone's throat if the bible told me not to I AGAIN was using an example that if there was no God then why obey anyone especially authority learn how to read mate I didn't say anything about eating babies mate so lets not digress here and I don't play cod I play gta v and fifa 16 I play decent games.
and I am not saying that if there was no God you would slit someone's throat I was using it as an example that if there is no God why listen to anyone, but because there is a God he placed some rules to stop BAD THINGS HAPPENING, btw I'm not trolling you, read properly and you would see that you aren't getting trolled.

There are people that think that there is no God so they do whatever they like because they don't care who it hurts in the long run so God put out some rules so people don't do certain things.
What open argument are you talking about

We are talking about humans please don't involve dogs and the commandments has EVERYTHING to do with morality it tells how you should live your life because the person who inspired it is a LOT smarter than all of us.

Leviticus25:44-46 KJV the bible is talking about maids and male maids who give themselves as maids

Exodus 21:20-21 is saying the punishment for those who mistreat their servants

Ephesians 6:5 saying how the servant should act as well as

1 Timothy 6:1 have as many servants as you want

Judges 21:10-24 its telling a story not giving a commandment its best not to use copy and paste

Numbers 31:7-18 is also a story
Deuteronomy 20:10-14 has nothing to do with rape as well as Deuteronomy 21:10-14, 2 Samuel 12:11-14, Judges 5:30

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 the bible says that because God condemns promiscuity so the person she has sex with first she has to marry.

Exodus 21-2-6 again saying how the servant and master dealing should be

I am not better than my God who Created me who is not limited by time space and matter like I am because if he is he's not God example the creator of the computer is not inside of the computer he is not limited by the computer because if he is he didn't create it.
Atheists ALWAYS SAY there is nothing going to happen when you die you want to know about afterlife look at near death experience for example even house that has poltergeist and ghost that's proof of the spirit realm places ancient ram inn
in my belief hell is
Matthew 13:50 - And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

you are worst than God you have done wrong and if you ask for forgiveness you can get it
the things in the bible are true you cannot prove it wrong so this is non fiction examples lying isn't good yet you do it stealing isn't good yet you do it jealousy isn't good yet you get jealous these things does not make you a better person there are so many things you are probably doing wrong and not noticing it s o prideful you are and again learn how to read we read the bible to learn how to be better people towards our creator not to keep the demons at bay.
I don't want you to experience eternal torture I really don't

P'S PLEASE (ANSWER MY QUESTION) IF THERE IS NO God HOW DO YOU TELL RIGHT FROM WRONG.
If you are having doubts about Gods existence why not call upon Gods name saying God of the bible if you're there please answer me show me that you are here please in Jesus name amen
Also use the KJV because the other versions really mistranslate scriptures

EXAMPLE DEFINITION

NOUN

1.a thing characteristic of its kind or illustrating a general rule:
"it's a good example of how European action can produce results" "

synonyms: specimen " sample " exemplar " exemplification

2.a person or thing regarded in terms of their fitness to be imitated or the likelihood of their being imitated:
"it is vitally important that parents should set an example"

synonyms: precedent " lead " model " pattern " exemplar " ideal "

VERB

1.
(be exampled)

be illustrated or exemplified:
"the extent of Allied naval support is exampled by the navigational specialists provided"
Finalfan

Con

For starter the bible is Morally correct YOU CANNOT PROVE ME WRONG ON THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it is impossible."

Well obviously I disagree.. That is why we are having this debate! I already proved it with rape and slavery! We could add plenty more hideously immoral bible verses if you like! The Bible is a terrible source for morality! As I said before. Following commandments is NOT MORAL! Several of God's commandments were Immoral!

Malachi 3:8-11, Zechariah 13:3, Nahum 1:2-8, Nahum 2:2-10, Zephaniah 3:6-10, Zephaniah 2:12-15, Zephaniah 1:7:18, Zephaniah 1:2-6, 1 John 2:7-8, James 5:14-15 , Judges 1:21-35, Judges 1:1-8, Jeremiah 50:21-22, 1 Kings 20:35-36,
Deuteronomy 7:16-24, Deuteronomy 13:13-19, Hosea 9:11-16, Proverbs 19:18-19, Deuteronomy 13:7-12, Isaiah 14:21
Judges 21:10-24, 2 Samuel 12:11-14, Exodus 21:20-21, Psalms 137:9, 1 Samuel 18:10-11, Ezekiel 4:12-15

This is the tip of the iceberg! When you claim that the Bible is "Morally Correct" You mean to say whatever God commands is Morality. Each verse I have given you is a commandment from God! Each one commanding the death, rape or enslavement of a person! That is wrong in so many ways! Morality is a system that we design based off of well being! You need to prove this wrong in order for your argument to hold any weight! It really just seems apparent to me that you do not understand what morality is!

"I did not say I would slit someone's throat if the bible told me not to I AGAIN was using an example that if there was no God then why obey anyone"

Yeah you said that you would slit someone's throat if there was no God! I know exactly what you are trying to say.. Its just insanely ignorant! I already told you that God has nothing to do with morality! Morality is our appeal to consequences! You have many systems in place.. both natural and institutional! You seem to ignore this fact. Its not about obedience! Obeying orders is AMORAL Please address this as you seem to not get it at all!

"God he placed some rules to stop BAD THINGS HAPPENING"

Unfortunately those rules were Immoral! If God told you to murder your child it is not morally correct just because someone powerful told you to do it! You could completely toss out your bible! ! You can find more morality in a South Park episode!

"There are people that think that there is no God so they do whatever they like because they don't care who it hurts in the long run so God put out some rules so people don't do certain things"

What?? I do not believe in God! Bamm! I just tore your statement apart! Oh and his rules were Barbaric and malicious!

"We are talking about humans please don't involve dogs "

Unfortunately for you the Dog on the couch analogy proves my point eloquently! Its obvious you do not get it or you would be atheist by now!

" the commandments has EVERYTHING to do with morality it tells how you should live your life because the person who inspired it is a LOT smarter than all of us."

Please do not follow the Bibles commandments! You would end up mass murdering and raping everyone in sight! That's not even a joke! Your God says he's smarter.. But he acts like a retarded Bull in a China Shop!

After this you took every bible verse for slavery and rape and just summarized them! So the answer to the question "Is it morally correct to own a human being as property" or "Is it morally correct to force a woman to marry her rapist?" Your answer to both of those questions is YES? Is that correct?

"I am not better than my God who Created me"

According to the Bible you are!

"not limited by time space and matter like I am because if he is he's not God example the creator of the computer is not inside of the computer he is not limited by the computer because if he is he didn't create it."

Ummm?? What????

"Atheists ALWAYS SAY there is nothing going to happen when you die"

I'm atheist and I make no such claim! If I heard someone tell e they know what happens when you die I ignore them.. Because they are lying! Just like an after life I would need proof that there is no after life.. Until then my default is I DONT KNOW!

" you want to know about afterlife look at near death experience for example even house that has poltergeist and ghost that's proof of the spirit realm places ancient ram inn"

Are you sure you are not Trolling me? I'm not even going to entertain this absurdity!

" And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

Hell is the epitome of immorality! It is the Myth of Hell that makes the Abrahamic God the most malevolent and evil Deity ever to be created by man! It is repulsive in every sense of the word and should have everyone rejecting the faith! Alas.. They have not! That is why I'm on this crusade ;P

"you are worst than God you have done wrong "

I have never done anything that even comes close to the atrocities of your God! My "wrongs" have never reached the magnitude of mass murdering my own children while eternally torturing them afterwards!

"the things in the bible are true you cannot prove it wrong"

Actually there are entire chapters of the Bible that have been proved wrong scientifically! There are countless fallacies and contradictions! You make a bold assertion while knowing.. You cannot prove that its right either! Evolution anyone?

Theft, Envy and pride are fairly innocuous occurrences! If you look at a woman with lust because of the Biology of your body.. How is that wrong? If you lie to someone to protect them.. How is that wrong, If you steal food to feed your children, How is that wrong? None of these actions require an all powerful Judge Judy to swing the gavel and cause a global catastrophe! That seems to be your Gods approach!
"WHAT?!! you got a funny feeling in your pants area looking at a girl.. That's eternal torture for you, you little horny heathen!" -God

"I don't want you to experience eternal torture I really don't"

I'm not worried about it! I really have zero concern for Hell! There is absolutely no reason to believe it exists so you should not go around telling people that it does!

"P'S PLEASE (ANSWER MY QUESTION) IF THERE IS NO God HOW DO YOU TELL RIGHT FROM WRONG"

Look familiar?....

Ultimately morality is about well being.
Whenever you come to a moral dilemma. It means that in order for someone to be well off, someone else needs to make a sacrifice!
I have to assure you that I reject the bible and any concept of God as my authority.. Yet I do not eat babies! Where does my morality come from? Why do you need to be commanded to be "Good or bad"? I follow no commandment and somehow maintain a moral lifestyle!
By evaluating any given situation we can maximize our well being while knowing that the well being of others benefits us all! Add a little empathy and compassion.. Bamm!! You have your system of morality that is completely independent from ever needing to be told to be "Good"
The fact that you think you would slit someone's throat means you do not understand morality or that you should definitely keep reading your bible if that helps you keep the demons at bay! I will be over here.. being a good person without anyone forcing me! If I'm a violent person I should expect to get hurt! If I am disrespectful to others they will be disrespectful to me! This is just an example of natural systems working to help me make a better judgement when evaluation a situation!
They also have a law and justice.. Yeah I won! The only reason my opponent is not Atheist by not is pure stubborn indoctrination.. Or he's just an idiot.. Yeah I went Ad Hominem.. I'm feeling pretty good about it.. WHAT?!!!
Debate Round No. 4
Thiest_1998

Pro

Tell me the 7 commandments that were immoral you say things and don't even give examples and when you do gives there not even good ones examples for example you quoted that Malachi 3:8-11 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.
That is not a commandment read the bible and because copying and paste isn't getting you far another example.
Zechariah 13:3 3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the Lord: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
Again this is not God saying a commandment to man saying he should do something bad and I'm not even going into detail with the other scriptures because if you don't take this debate seriously and not copy and paste instead of looking into the scripture I don't see why I should take you seriously.
I know what I'm trying say you don' know me better than I know myself just like I don't know you better than you know yourself I was using an example.
You're right there are laws everywhere set in place by man what about the rules that we didn't put in place for example gravity ow did that law get there even more examples law of attraction, law of vibration ect science can't even explain how a random explosion created all these rules by the way the random explosion is evolution which there is no evidence for which one of his rule are barbaric and malicious another statement with no evidence for so yeah bammmm!!!!!! I just tore your statement apart.
)Unfortunately for you the Dog on the couch analogy proves my point eloquently! Its obvious you do not get it or you would be atheist by now!) what are you on about do you actually think about what you're say am I debating a 12 year old?
If I follow the bible I would end up in mass murder my whole family hasn't murdered anyone in thier whole life soo yh, and the bible says you shouldn't murder its one of the 10 commandments so again you need to read the bible because you're not making any sense God condemns promiscuity so whoever you have sex with you have to marry.
The bible doesn't say I am better than God show me where in the bible it says so don't phase this question actually answer it please.
and if you don't that means you're wrong and I'M RIGHT.
if you're lying to protect someone it means the person you're trying to protect did something wrong which they shouldnt have done if not give me a scenario that proves otherwise.
I'm serious go or sleep in a haunted house with poltergeist in it.
in that sence its ok to steal but to steal from someone poorer than you is absurd as well as stealing when you don't need to especially if it affects someone badly you don't go to hell for being horny you go there because you are a sinner and you have not repented or come to Christ the fact that you can control yourself and you still do bad is very much a sin.
I tell people it exist which it does and there is a way for you to escape it through Jesus Christ just accept him as your lord and saviour what are you waiting for you could die tomorrow and it could be too late I'm not telling you this at 3 am in the morning when because I can, I do it because I care about your soul I care about you.
God doesn't force you to do anything he gives you a choice so do I stop being so ignorant and just believe you know it in your heart.
I actually care about you just give it a try call out to him say God if you're there call answer me He answered me he will surely answer you please just call out to him He loves you what are you waiting for.
Finalfan

Con

Finalfan forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
22 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Finalfan 11 months ago
Finalfan
This debate was a no brainer! I won within the first paragraph of the first round! I could have done better but I realized right away that you were on a spaceship with a unicorn and I was stuck on lame old planet Earth where all that we have are horses and Zebras! So it makes sense that we are not on the same page!
Posted by Finalfan 11 months ago
Finalfan
Deuteronomy 20:10-14
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'
Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die." 2 Samuel 12:11-14

They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera's spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil. Judges 5:30

Hmm, God commanding rape and slavery and children to be killed! What a surprise! I copy and pasted several verses to prove that God was immoral! Every verse illustrates my point! If we had unlimited space I could have ripped apart each verse! My plan was to show the "iceberg" Those verses were just the tip!
Posted by Thiest_1998 11 months ago
Thiest_1998
I did that when you stopped taking this debate seriously when you started copying and pasting and not actually reading the text for example Deuteronomy 20:10-14 Nahum 1:2-8, 2 Samuel 12:11-14,2 Samuel 12:11-14, Judges 5:30. if you read these verses you would know they have nothing to do with rape you could read them and elaborate on them if you want make sure you use (KJV) if you are going to do this.
There is a difference between a dictator and God, a dictator would say do what I say or I will kill you God says you have a choice do what I say or you can do the opposite.
Aren't maids and maidservants slaves in a way but you can't force them to do it just like the bible says.Masters beating their slaves or parents murdering their child for being unruly! DON'T JUST SAY IT SHOW ME WHERE IN THE BIBLE SAYS THOSE THINGS ARE OK YOU SAY THINGS MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A BURDEN OF PROOF.
Posted by Finalfan 11 months ago
Finalfan
You are right! I reject your God and any other man made Deity! There are several things that God commands that I find to be immoral! This entire debate could have been 3 rounds.. meaning you had three rounds to answer this question: "Is it morally good to own a human being as property" or"Is it morally good to force a woman to marry her rapist"? You failed to answer either question. Leading me to believe that you know the answer but cannot reconcile it with your God's morality! If you are curios as to why I let round 5 die.. You did nothing but preach! You didn't address a single argument of mine other than complaining about copy and pasting bible verses! Which I would have understood if you had at least acknowledged the verses and explain how God has such a problem with you eating shellfish and wearing poly cotton blends! But does not seem concerned with Masters beating their slaves or parents murdering their child for being unruly!
Posted by Thiest_1998 11 months ago
Thiest_1998
I am not more moral than my God, Allah from islam is a dictator he say believe in me or die MY GOD SAYS I will give you a choice you can choose to believe in me if you don't want to that's ok, completely your choice but when you die you are not allowed in heaven only those who obey his laws and forgive those who do bad to them love everyone as God loves us and accept Jesus as your lord and saviour that ain't too much to ask, but if you actually read 2 peter 3:3' Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts' just like the bible say you don't want God telling what to do because he say some things you are not allowed to do but you don't like that so you reject him, just think about it are there anything you do that God say's you're not allowed to do.
Posted by Finalfan 12 months ago
Finalfan
You have it all wrong btw! 2 Peter 3:3.. Swing and a miss! I do not worship nor believe in your God! Why would I follow a Celestial totalitarian dictator? As I had said before! You are more moral than your God! You seem to have Stockholms syndrome because you keep defending that monster!
Posted by Finalfan 12 months ago
Finalfan
If you are not a Troll and these are truly your beliefs... Wow!! That is all I can say! You have hit me with every single logical fallacy that pertains to this subject! Do yourself a favor and find out about: Argument from ignorance, Argument from authority, Appeal to Heaven, Appeal to Closure, Equivocation,and of course Blind Loyalty! All are obvious logical fallacies that have been locked away for a reason! Why do you keep bringing them back!?
Posted by Thiest_1998 1 year ago
Thiest_1998
Firstly how am I being ignorant and morally bankrupt if anything that's describing your behaviour, you have been ignoring and morally bankrupt by saying that I would stab someone in the throat again I was using it as an (example) you have been trying so hard since the beginning of the debate to twist my words and that's ok the bible said many people like you would do that
2 Peter 3:3 knowing this in the last days there shall come scoffers walking after their own lust
translation: you don't want God telling you what to do because there is something you like that he said you shouldn't do or your pride you think that your too good that you're better than the person who created you so you ignore him but he loves you if you don't believe in him just say the God of the Holy Bible if you're really there and you really exist then give me a sign anything you can and if something happens you can even lie through your teeth and say nothing happened and I would convert if nothing happened just call out to him trust me he will answer what do you have to lose only something to gain if nothing happens hope you have a wonderful day :D and God bless
...................__
............./""/'...'/"""`""
........../'/.../..../......./""........('(..."...".... "~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........'...\.......... _.""
............\..............(
Posted by Finalfan 1 year ago
Finalfan
I think you are a troll! You cannot truly be as ignorant and morally bankrupt as you seem! I invite you to call into a program called "The Atheist Experience" Talk to Matt Dillahunty! He will help you through this time of wander! Oh and your grammar sux ;P
Posted by Thiest_1998 1 year ago
Thiest_1998
I said some of us our moralities come from God and some people follow these morals even
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by wipefeetnmat 11 months ago
wipefeetnmat
Thiest_1998FinalfanTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:11 
Reasons for voting decision: Neither side made any impressive points in what I comprehended. It read sort of like a debate of Donald Trump v. Articulate Donald Trump. lol Oh, conduct goes to Pro for not forfeiting.
Vote Placed by Sdio 11 months ago
Sdio
Thiest_1998FinalfanTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Theist had poor grammar. His argument was also flawed from the beginning...secular morality is granted upon birth. I do not need to read a book to know that I shouldn't kill someone. I don't want to be killed, why would I do it to somebody else? Pro also failed to think about possible social, judicial, and economic variables that affect our morality. Interesting debate, but Con takes it.