|Voting Style:||Open||Point System:||7 Point|
|Updated:||1 month ago||Status:||Debating Period|
|Viewed:||366 times||Debate No:||96338|
IS: Islamic State (The one existing in Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Somalia, Nigeria, etc.. currently)
Islam: Islam is the religion articulated by the Quran, a text considered by its adherents to be the verbatim word of God (Allāh), and, for the vast majority of adherents, by the teachings and normative example (called the sunnah, composed of accounts called hadith) of Muhammad Pbuh (c. 570"8 June 632 CE). It is the world's second-largest religion and the fastest-growing major religion in the world, with over 1.7 billion followers or 23% of the global population. 
I'll let my opponent start by his arguments supporting why IS does NOT represent Islam.
R1. Rules for PRO, Acceptance & first argument for CON.
R2. Rebuttal for PRO & Defense for CON.
R3. Defense for PRO & CON.
R4. Defense & conclusions for PRO & CON.
1. No forfeiting unless there are a same number of forfeits
2. No trolling
3. No plagiarism, or you have to quote it.
4. Cite sources in 'Sources' Category
5. No new arguments in the beginning round.
6. BoP is shared in this debate.
7. Not following rules is an automatic loss.
8. We cannot have new arguments in the first round or the final round.
I STRONGLY CALL UPON VOTERS TO VOTE BY FACT AND POWER OF DEBATE, NOT BY OPINION.
I thank my opponent. Let's have a wonderful debate!
So if I read this correctly, you're a Muslim that actually believes that ISIL is Islamic.
ISIS has been denounced by 99.9% or 100% of Islamic scholars and Muftis. The grand Mufti of Saudi-Arabia called ISIS "the #1 enemy of Islam".
Here is a list of a few scholars, learners and muftis denouncing the dogs of hell (=ISIL).
Mufti Menk, Hamza Yusuf, Yasir Qadhi, Muhammad al-Yaqoubi, Abdullah bin-Bayyah, Shafayat Mohamed, Bilal Phillips, Abu Usmah At-Thahabi, Imran Hossein, Abdul Muhsin al-'Abbaad, Haitham al-Haddad, Abdur Raheem Green, Abou Arfa, Zakir Naik, Salih as-Suhaymee, Asim Hussain, Salih al-Fawzan, Habib Ali Al-Jifri, Muhammad Ibn Abdullah Al-Muhaisini, Nourman Ali Khan, Muhammad Bin Ramzaan, Sheikh Omar El Banna, Sh. Khalid Yasin.
These are just a few.
- "And We have sent you (O Muhammad SAW) not but as a mercy for the "Alameen (mankind, jinns and all that exists)"
[al-Anbiya" 21:107] ISIS has no mercy, showing a clear contradiction.
- [If a Muslim calls another kafir, then if he is a kafir let it be so; otherwise, he [the caller] is himself a kafir.' (Abu Dawud, Book of Sunnah).]
ISIS will call anyone a kaafir who does not agree with their wicked ideology.
- Qur'an 4:29" "And do not kill yourselves, surely God is most Merciful to you."
ISIS directly violates this command that is also continuously found in authentic Hadiths.
-Qur'an 17:23: "And your Lord has decreed that you not worship except Him, and to parents, good treatment. Whether one or both of them reach old age [while] with you, say not to them [so much as], "uff," and do not repel them but speak to them a noble word."
ISIS militants on the other hand disrespect their parents and will even kill them if they do not agree with ISIS.
- Qur"an 6:151 specifically and explicitly prohibits the killing of Muslims and ISIS directly violates this.
- The Quran 5:69 mentions in that among the Jews and Christians there are also believers who will enter paradise. ISIS kills Christians as well, but they don't kill Jews obviously.
- Qur'an 5:82 even mentions "You will surely find the most intense of the people in animosity toward the believers [to be] the Jews and those who associate others with Allah ; and you will find the nearest of them in affection to the believers those who say, "We are Christians." That is because among them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant.".
- Qur'an 2:190 mentions that Allah does not love transgressors when it comes to fighting, meaning killing innocent people.
- "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (Quran, 2:256)"
- "Say, 'The truth is from your Lord': Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it). (Quran, 18:29)"
-"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Qur'an, 60:8)"
If ISIS is anyone then they are the Kharijites or the Khawarijs, also known as the worst of the creation.
Nu"aym b. Hammad records in his Kitab al-Fitan (The Book of Tribulations):
"It is related on the authority of "Ali (may Allah ennoble his countenance): "When you see the black flags, remain where you are and do not move your hands or your feet (It"s a common phrase meaning: "Stay put and don"t get involved in the fighting"). Thereafter there shall appear a feeble folk to whom no concern is given. Their hearts will be like fragments of iron. They are the representatives of the State (Ashab al-Dawla). They will fulfill neither covenant nor agreement. They will invite to the truth, though they are not from its people. Their names will be agnomens [i.e., Abu So-and-so], and their ascriptions will be to villages. Their hair will be long like that of women. [They shall remain so] till they differ among themselves, and then Allah will bring forth the truth from whomever He wills.""
"a group of young people who would be immature in thought and foolish." They would speak beautiful words but commit the most heinous of deeds. They would engage in so much prayer and fasting that the worship of the Muslims would appear insignificant in comparison. They would call people to the Quran but would have nothing to do with it in reality. The Quran would not go beyond their throats, meaning they wouldn't understand its essence at all, merely regurgitating it selectively. The Prophet then went on to describe these people as "the worst of the creation." (Sahih Bukhari)
In another Hadith the Kharijites are called the dogs of Hell. The scholars I presented also call them the Khawarij.
Hamza Yusuf talking about the Khawarij/Kharijites: https://www.youtube.com...
R2. Rebuttal for PRO & Defense for CON.
Before starting I would like to ask voters not to vote except if they are Muslim. The reason is clear.
[al-Anbiya" 21:107] ISIS has no mercy, showing a clear contradiction."-CON
9. “If ISIS is anyone then they are the Kharijites or the Khawarijs, also known as the worst of the creation.” –CON
-Warrant from Kitab and/or Sunnah please?
10. As for the Hadiths about Khawarij, my refutation is the same for rebuttal point (9).
11. “dogs of hell (=ISIL)” –Con
- VOTERS! CONDUCT! The Quran says: “Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best.” 
I made a mistake in the first round with copy and pasting (from my own previous debates), I have no idea how that happened.
I also say that the only ones who should vote on this debate are Muslims, which was originally proposed by PRO.
You seem to be blaming me for apparently not reading your resolution properly, but you yourself make a contradiction.
In your rules you stated that I couldn't make an argument in the first round, but before that you said that I should. If you make contradictions in your rules that's your problem, not mine.
1. You say that the absolute majority of Islamic scholar don't represent Islam, but you're trying to tell us that criminals represent Islam. What are you on about Adil?
2. You said that this verse is "INWARRANTED", I would assume that you meant unwarranted. You made this claim without providing an explanation.
3. I never made a comment about you, unless you're part of ISIS off course. ISIS has murdered more Muslims than non-Muslims. During the attack in Nice more than 30 Muslims died and 10 children died. This attack was done by someone who was part of ISIS, yet didn't practice Islam.
Prohibition on killing women and children:
Volume 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 257 Narrated By 'Abdullah : During some of the Ghazawat of the Prophet a woman was found killed. Allah's Apostle disapproved the killing of women and children.
يَخْرُجُ نَاسٌ مِنْ قِبَلِ الْمَشْرِقِ وَيَقْرَءُونَ الْقُرْآنَ لَا يُجَاوِزُ تَرَاقِيَهُمْ يَمْرُقُونَ مِنْ الدِّينِ كَمَا يَمْرُقُ السَّهْمُ مِنْ الرَّمِيَّةِ ثُمَّ لَا يَعُودُونَ فِيهِ حَتَّى يَعُودَ السَّهْمُ إِلَى فُوقِهِ
There will come a people from the east who recite the Quran but it will not go beyond their throats. They will pass through the religion just as an arrow pierces its target and they will not return to it just as the arrow does not return to the bow.
Source: Sahih Bukhari 7123, Grade: Sahih
Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 9.68 Narrated by Yusair bin Amr
I asked Sahl bin Hunaif, "Did you hear the Prophet (saws) saying anything about the Al-Khawarij? He said, "I heard him (saws) saying while pointing his hand towards Iraq, 'There will appear in it (i.e, Iraq) some people who will recite the Quran but it will not go beyond their throats, and they will go out from (leave) Islam as an arrow darts through the preys body.'"
إِنَّهُمْ انْطَلَقُوا إِلَى آيَاتٍ نَزَلَتْ فِي الْكُفَّارِ فَجَعَلُوهَا عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ
The Khawaarij who deviated, whom the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) enjoined us to fight, and whom Ameer al-Mu’mineen ‘Ali (may Allah be pleased with him), one of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs fought, and whom the leading scholars of Islam among the Sahaabah, Taabi‘een and those who came after them were unanimously agreed upon fighting, were not described as disbelievers by ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib, Sa‘d ibn Abi Waqqaas and others among the Sahaabah; rather they regarded them as Muslims even though they fought them, and ‘Ali did not fight them until they shed blood unlawfully and raided the property of the Muslims; then he fought them in order to ward off their wrongdoing and aggression, not because they were disbelievers. Hence he did not take their womenfolk captive and he did not seize their wealth as booty.
End quote from Majmoo‘ al-Fataawa, 3/282
11. Ibn Maajah (173) narrated that Ibn Abi Awfa said: The Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “The Khawaarij are the dogs of Hell.”
My strategy in defense: “Argument” -Defense.
1. “You seem to be blaming me for apparently not reading your resolution properly, but you yourself make a contradiction. In your rules you stated that I couldn't make an argument in the first round, but before that you said that I should. If you make contradictions in your rules, that's your problem, not mine.” –CON
-I’m not sure if you know what the resolution is. The resolution is IS = Islam. So, as I mentioned before, you have to bring proof from Kitab, Sunnah, and Ijma ONLY. Secondly, I did make that mistake. It’s ok, you have no wrong in that. Thirdly, you haven’t followed rule 4: Cite sources in ‘Sources’ Category. Rule 7: Not following rules is an automatic loss.
2. “You say that the absolute majority of Islamic scholars doesn’t represent Islam, but you’re trying to tell us that criminals represent Islam. What are you on about Adil?” –CON
Thanks for knowing my name. What I meant is that we aren’t talking about side 1, the scholars. This debate is about side 2, IS. So you have to prove- let me make a new term- from KSI (Kitab, Sunnah, and Ijma) ONLY.
3. “You said that this verse is “INWARRANTED”, I would assume that you meant unwarranted. You made this claim without providing an explanation.” -CON
When did I say that a verse was unwarranted? Please quote it for me. My sentence was: THE LAST SENTENCE IS COMPLETELY UNWARRANTED. The last sentence was: ISIS has no mercy, showing a clear contradiction. What I mean by unwarranted is that you gave no examples or proofs that IS has no mercy. Now don’t go on and give me examples from sources like CNN and BBC. IS has released videos showing their ‘crimes’, right. Give me examples from them.
4. “I never made a comment about you, unless you’re part of ISIS off course. ISIS has murdered more Muslims than non-Muslims. During the attack in Nice more than 30 Muslims died and 10 children died. This attack was done by someone who was part of ISIS, yet didn’t practice Islam.” –CONI’m not a part of IS, but my Aqeedah is exactly like them. I never called you a Kafir, though. Secondly, about the Muslims and children dying, just suppose there is a battle between Kuffar and Muslims, and you go with the Kuffar, the Muslims kill you. Can you say: see, they have killed a Muslim? So if you really want to go to France, and celebrate their national day with them, I don’t say you deserve to die, I say IF there if someone bombs them, and you die with them, it’s YOUR OWN FAULT. As the for the killing of children, the Quran says: " And fight against the disbelievers collectively as they fight against you collectively.” 9:37. Also: “And We ordained for them therein a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and for wounds is legal retribution.” So the Prophet (((pbuh))) forbid the killing of children in case they don’t kill our children. Just see the bombing in Raqqa, Halab, etc. But if they kill our children, we are allowed to kill their children. With all that, the children were NOT killed intentionally. Even if they had been killed intentionally (which is not the case), it is allowed.
5. “Prohibition on killing women and children: Volume 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 257 Narrated By 'Abdullah : During some of the Ghazawat of the Prophet a woman was found killed. Allah's Apostle disapproved the killing of women and children.
- Just a red herring. The debate is NOT about prohibition of killing women and children. IT IS ABOUT IS. So prove first that IS does not represent Islam, then talk about all this.
- I’m not talking about that. Zakir Naik, after all what he said, allowed suicide bombing as a SoW. Secondly, what do you mean by saying that they say it’s haram to do a suicide bombing? Scholars who have allowed suicide bombing have made it Haram to do a suicide bombing?! Is that English?!
7. The news sources about IS member killing his mother. –CON
- Of course all news is wrong about that. Anybody will give false news about his enemy. Not a proof. Refer defense point 3 ^. Secondly and the most important, it says: “RIBSS however said that the woman was killed for the crime of apostasy.” The punishment of apostasy from Islam is execution. Keep in mind, RIBSS is against IS.
8. “ Where did I freaking mention that there are no Jews or Christian in Arab countries? Explain how this verse is only speaking of these Jews?”-CON
- Are you playing dumb? Or are you really not understanding? You had said that why does IS not kill Jews, and I asked you if there are Jews the countries IS soldiers are present in. Do you want them to kill Jews in Israel when they are still in Syria? As for Christians, there are Christians in Egypt, Syria, Libya, Iraq…. etc.
9. “Explain how this verse is only speaking of these Jews?” –CON
-I never said so!
10. “Religion is not just the Islam, but any religion.”-CON
-Still not understanding me, or acting so. I’m asking which is religion is the verse: “Let there be no compulsion” about? Isn’t it about Islam?! So yes, it IS forbidden to convert anyone forcefully to Islam, and IS does NOT do that.
11. “I asked Sahl bin Hunaif, "Did you hear the Prophet (saws) saying anything about the Al-Khawarij? He said, "I heard him (saws) saying while pointing his hand towards Iraq, 'There will appear in it (i.e, Iraq) some people who will recite the Quran but it will not go beyond their throats, and they will go out from (leave) Islam as an arrow darts through the preys body.”
- The Khawarij have already came from Iraq and gone at the time of Ali (rAa). YOUR SOURCE  SAYS THIS: The Khawarij (Arabic: الخوارج, singularخارجي, khārijiyy) or the ash- are members of a group that appeared in the first century of Islam during the First Fitna, the crisis of leadership after the death of Muhammad. It broke into revolt against the authority of theRashidun Caliph Ali after he agreed to arbitration with his rival,Muawiyah I, to decide the succession to the Caliphate following theBattle of Siffin. A Khariji later assassinated Ali, and for hundreds of years, the Khawarij were a source of insurrection against the Caliphate.
1. If you are saying that Islam doesn't support war, The Prophet Pbuh has taken part in total 29 ghazwahs (battles), other than the battles in which he sent his companians but didn't take part in.
You haven’t followed rule 4: Cite sources in ‘Sources’ Category. Rule 7: Not following rules is an automatic loss. BECAUSE OF THAT, YOU HAVE ALREADY LOST, but let’s continue the debate.
I have already shown you enough evidence that ISIS are kharijites.
Be one of them or be part of Ahlul-Sunnah wa Jama'a.
Wow! A good way to withdraw just because you are losing. I already told you that you have been forgiven for not following the rules, butyou felt yourself losing, and my arguments very powerful, so you withdraw?!
"I have already shown you enough evidence that ISIS are kharijites.
Be one of them or be part of Ahlul-Sunnah wa Jama'a."
You haven't prooved anything. You just gave me Ahadith about the Khawarij but didn't show the link between any of them and IS.
I AM WITH IS, AND IS IS THE MOST POWERFUL GROUP OF AHL ASSUNNAH WAL JAMAAH.
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