The Instigator
karla_Habbershaw
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Shanester
Con (against)
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IVF debate

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/21/2015 Category: Science
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 398 times Debate No: 73870
Debate Rounds (5)
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karla_Habbershaw

Pro

In vitro fertilization is never a patents first choice.
Generally IVFs are used after a couple has been trying to conceive for at least a year and have presented with one of the following fertility issues:
- Blocked Fallopian tubes or pelvic adhesions with distorted pelvic anatomy.
- Severe male factor including sperm count or low sperm motility
- Failed 2-4 cycles of ovarian stimulation
- Reduced ovarian reserve, which means having a low egg supply. A day 3 FSH, ovarian antral follicle counts and AMH blood levels are often used as screening tests for egg quantity.
- Severe endometriosis.
These are all medical issues that happen to all kinds of people.The ones who have worked for at least a year with medical professionals in an attempt to conceive a child naturally, to overcome these medical issues, should be allowed to have a medical procedure done to allow for correction of their medical issues.
At the advanced fertility center of Chicago they have kept up with the IVF procedure since its inception in the mid 80s.
On their website they have many facts a figures showing the improvement of this procedure over time.
Success rates from 1985 to 1991 went up 7.6% and from 1999 to 2009 went up 5.2% in 2009 success rates stood at 30%.
Today with donor eggs the success rate is staggering 65% according to the center for human reproduction website.
With new technology this procedure is quickly becoming safer and more successful.
Shanester

Con

IVF does not guarantee that the woman will get pregnant. It just raises the chances. Depending on the woman, it may take up to 6 cycles until it is a success and the woman becomes pregnant. This is a serious issue because depending on where the couple lives, which IVF center they go to, and how severe the problems are of the couple, each cycle will cost about $12,400 according to the American Society of Reproductive Medicine. That is a lot of money that every couple might not have. Another problem is that about 20-30% of the time the woman becomes pregnant with multiple children due to the fact that multiple eggs are placed in her. Some couples may not be able to financially support multiple children. This also could be very dangerous for the woman to give birth to multiple children. Also the drugs used during IVF may have severe side effects on the woman's health. According to the Houston Fertility Institute such side effects may be irritation at the injection site, abdominal bloating, headaches, breast tenderness, and nausea.
Debate Round No. 1
karla_Habbershaw

Pro

The listed "side effects" are simply side effects of pregnancy, or even regular menstruation. These are all effects of the hormone acting in the way that they are supposed to - that they naturally act on a woman's body. When they are used at the beginning of the IVF process it is to increase the rate that the eggs in the ovaries are maturing so that they can get a good sample amount to be sure they are successful with fertilization.
As far as money is concerned, it is the choice of the couple if they want to try IVF, If they go through the proper channels they are fully aware of the possibility of failure in the procedure. It is no different than when a person gets any type of medical operation. If a man tries to get a new kidney and it doesn't take it is unfortunate, but he still pays his hospital bills.
The same goes for women who end up with multiple births. It is true many websites state that 20-30% of IVF attempts end in multiple births. To name a few babycenter.com, oneatatime.org, IVF.com, Advancedfertility.com, the march of dimes page, and infetility.com. These are just the first results that come up when I do one Google search. Any couple trying IVF has consulted with medical professionals trained in the procedure, they will be given the risks and warnings, as required before any major medical procedure. Or if they do one simple search they could find the information on multiple births (or prices for that matter) very easily before even walking in to the doctors office and paying any sort of consultant or medical bill.
IVF isn't something that is taken lightly, it is a serious decision. It is the responsibility of the doctor and the couple to make the decision that is best for them.
Mayo clinic has a whole article just on the risks of IVF and another on how to prepare before hormone injections even begin. The mental state and economic security are definitely a factor in making the decision to go ahead with IVF. That is why according to the Mayo Clinic being prepared is its own step in the IVF process.
Shanester

Con

Advances in IVF technology, such as Next Generation Sequencing, can virtually create the "perfect baby" by detecting which genetic traits the child will have. They will then choose which embryo to have implanted based on what they want for a child. High resolution testing can help detect the traits each embryo will carry, such as which embryos have a disease, carry a disease, or those that are unaffected, according to Dr. Michael Glassner of Main Line Health. He also says that it is capable of identifying traits such as height, eye color, and hair color. This raises the ethical question of it not being the "natural way" and therefore is it a real child? Some people also believe that it allows the doctor to play the role of God.
Debate Round No. 2
karla_Habbershaw

Pro

Yes the genetic screening can be used to tell determine things such as hair color and eye color but that is not the main reason of the testing.
The baby is no less of a child, it I still a mix of the mother and fathers genes. The doctor doesn't change the natural genetics of the child.
One benefit if IVF is genetic screening that can be done before the implantation of the embryos. Preliminary genetic diagnosis or PGD is not done in every case of IVF it is done at the discretion of the couple and in cases of one or both of the parents having, or being a carrier of, a genetic disorder. According to Pennmedicine.org getting a PGD can also be helpful when the mother has had frequent miscarriages or is over 35.
When a woman is over 35 the risk of a child with genetically triggered illnesses such as down syndrome are significantly higher.
According to the March Of Dimes web page the risk of Down syndrome increases with the mother's age:
At age 25, the risk of having a baby with Down syndrome is 1 in 1,250.
At age 30, the risk is 1 in 1,000.
At age 35, the risk is 1 in 400.
At age 40, the risk is 1 in 100.
At age 45, the risk is 1 in 30.
When a woman 35 years-of-age or older gets pregnant, they are informed of these statistics and it is advised that they do testing to check for down syndrome and other genetic disorders. It is not uncommon, in fact it is routine to do a certain amount of screening to check on the health of a baby during a pregnancy.
With IVF the mothers get the information sooner, and can make a more thoughtful decision. Women who are going through IVF can choose to implant only the embryos clear of genetic disorders, implant the embryos randomly, or to simply refuse the test.
If a mother who is already pregnant is confirmed to be carrying a child with a illness they can't do much for it in most cases, in the case of down syndrome there is nothing they can do. These mothers have choices very similar to that of the IVF mothers, to keep the baby, to terminate the pregnancy or to not get the test.
Shanester

Con

According to CNN, the excess embryos produced during culturing are frozen. It can cost $2,000 a year to store the excess embryos. They are frozen at 321 degrees below zero. The couple chooses whether the embryos can be used for another child, have them destroyed, not use them and have them thawed and put away, donate them to another couple, or donate them to research (stem cell research) Tis raises the ethical problems that the embryos are considered human and being killed to use for stem cell research. Some people also believe that since they are humans they shouldn't be frozen, and that discarding the embryos is basically murdering them. Some of the more practical problems are that the couple has to pay for the embryos to be stored. This is a lot of money that the couple may not have, especially since insurance doesn't cover the storage of embryos.
Debate Round No. 3
karla_Habbershaw

Pro

A miscarriage that occurs during the first 5 weeks of pregnancy is called a chemical pregnancy, it is not considered a 'miscarriage' until around the 6th week, when an ultrasound could have shown a gestational sac and the pregnancy is considered a clinical pregnancy.
Why should we change our attitude when it comes to IVF. The eggs that are taken from the woman are fertilized within the first 48 hours of retrieval to ensure optimal results. After fertilization the embryos are implanted in the uterus as soon as possible.
According to Advanced fertility.com the latest chance for implantation of an embryo, or the freezing of one, following an IVF transfer is about 10 days after the egg retrieval. Well within the 5 weeks before the pregnancy is considered clinical, and well before the heart has started to beat (which happens in the 6th week) which means there was no heart to stop meaning no death and no killing. When the cells are discarded they are all still within their comical pregnancy time frame.
As far as money goes IVF, including the freezing of the excess embryos is expensive. If the couple had a problem with it they shouldn't have begun the process.
If they are keeping the excess embryos for future use that is up to them. If they are keeping them because they want to keep it alive, its not possible because it is not living yet. If a couple doesn't want to discard, or keep the excess embryos they can donate them to research or to other couples that need help in conceiving a child.
Shanester

Con

45% of IVF babies are high order pregnancies with 3 or more fetuses. According to www.Resolve.org (the National Infertility Association) the risks associated with multiple pregnancies include premature delivery, birth defects, high incidence of death, and low birth weight. This is caused by multiple fetuses in the womb.Drugs used during IVF treatments can also be harmful to the mother. In fact certain medications used to stimulate egg growth have been suggested as a link to a specific type of ovarian tumor.
Debate Round No. 4
karla_Habbershaw

Pro

44% of women with infertility issues sought out help from medical professionals.
Out of these women 65% give birth with assistance.
3% of these women give birth with the assistance of IVF.
Most clinics start the process by getting a clear history of the patent. They qualify for IVF if they have serious fertility problems in the man or woman and have been trying to conceive naturally for at least one year.
Next they give the woman a dose of natural hormones to increase egg production closely monitoring the patent through constant exams. Maria, a woman who had Endocytosis, had her story posted on the Human Fertilisation Embryology Authority web page. Where she describes the process "internal examinations were incredibly painful."
After about two weeks of hormone treatment they have the eggs removed, and three days after that they have 2-3 of the embryos transferred. Maria said "I found the procedure so painful that I was flood with tears."
Two weeks later they do a blood test to check for pregnancy. When Maria got the news that she was pregnant with twins she said she was "exstatic".
5 million American women have Endometriosis, this is a disease that results in heavy painful periods and often the loss of a ovary, these women can't conceive children naturally, pregnacy is a normal part of life that should be available to all women. When someone loses a leg we work to rebuild it, creating an new limb so that they can walk again. It is an amazing thing that we can do today with modern technology. What is the difference for a woman being able to have a child? We should be striving to make it possible for all women to have children if they choose, it is a part of life that they shouldn't have to give up because of an awful disease. The process of IVF is painful emotionally and physically, its not a easy procedure it is a serious life decision. We shouldnt deny this right to any woman.
Shanester

Con

There is an issue to solve of who owns the eggs. If it is the couples own eggs they have the right to decide how the eggs are used and disposed of. That is clear, what is not clear however is what happens if the couple splits up? If the couple splits up and one of them wants to freeze the eggs and the other wants to dispose of the eggs, then what is to happen? The eggs come from both the male and female, giving them equal rights to them. It also raises the question of can the female charge the male child support if she chooses to have the eggs injected into her while he wants them destroyed? There is no definite law or way to decide who gets to decide what happens to the eggs if the couple splits up. This as well as the health risks and financial costs, as well as ethical issues proves that In Vitro Fertilization should not be allowed.
Debate Round No. 5
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