The Instigator
Kylar
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Emilrose
Con (against)
Winning
7 Points

Iceland, Albania, Kosovo, Ukraine, Serbia, and Montenegro-EU Membership Yes or No?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Emilrose
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/17/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 863 times Debate No: 63381
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (2)

 

Kylar

Pro

Greetings everyone it's Kylar from WI. I wanted to bring up an interesting debate topic. The title bar won't give me enough space but I would have added Russia, Andorra, San Marino, Belarus, Vatican City, Lichenstein, Norway, Armenia, Switzerland and Bosnia and Herzegovina to the list as well as Turkey. The European continent has a number of nations as you can see that are not under the banner of the great blue and yellow flag of the EU. I am debating this: Should all these countries join the EU? It's a yes or no, followed by a reason. I believe that if all these nations join the EU, the continent/region of Europe would be better. It would almost be like a family of nations, like the UN. It would draw everyone closer together as friends, and the EU would truly be a United Europe. Should all these nations join then? Or do you have some you think should hold off? Thanks once again for your time, and I am super excited to debate this with you,
Kylar
Emilrose

Con

Accepted, thanks to Kylar for initiatating this debate. I will be taking the "Con" side and arguing that the European Union would in fact not be beneficial for these countries.


As there are five rounds, I will first begin by providing a brief definition of what the European Union is:

European Union

n

1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) an organization created in 1993 with the aim of achieving closereconomic and political union between member states of the European Community. The current membersare Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Poland,Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and the UK. Abbreviation: EU


Investopedia Explanation

The current formalized incarnation of the European Union was created in 1993 with 12 initial members. Since then, many additional countries have since joined. The EU has become one of the largest producers in the world, in terms of GDP, and the euro has maintained a competitive value against the U.S. dollar.

EU and non-EU members must agree to many legal requirements in order to trade with the EU member states.

Debate Round No. 1
Kylar

Pro

Round 2: I believe that it would be good for them to join the EU. Kosovo would get full independence at last for starters. Montenegro would be valuable because, while they are small, they have great economic potential. The Ukraine needs to join the EU so that the conflict within it's borders can cease. In the case of Bosnia they need to join to prevent a war from various ethnic groups. Iceland and Albania are candidates currently, and this community of nations would help kick-start their infrastructure that much more. Serbia should join to solve the Kosovo recognition crisis. On the whole, all these nations would prosper, from solving problems on the economy of Europe, to coming together to end warfare
Emilrose

Con




Bureaucracy of the European Union

The E.U is in fact a political governance that is made up of non-elected officials (I.E "Bureacrats") that heavily influence the laws of particpating European Union countries. On the contrary to promoting democratic policy, its interests lay in establishing rules and regulations in which these nations are required to abide by.

An example would be the vast number of restrictions and bans the E.U has imposed on consumer products; including cosmetics, computers, fruit/food, electrical goods, tobacco, etc. The most note-worthy ban was enforced on large vacuum cleaners in an effort to "re-educate" citizens who they consider to be consuming too much energy. There has also a set of complex labelling restrictions and requirements made on consumerized products for particpating members.

Another flaw in its system is the fact that member countries (such as the U.K, Germany, France, Italy, Spain) are not able to enforce their own immigration laws and again, are required to adhere to the immigration guidelines that the E.U individuualy outlines. That means, that if a country wanted to create or re-define laws applying to immigration, it would be unable to. This has lead to extensive immigration in some member states, which has thus caused, along with the bureaucracy, certain nationalist parties (Such as UKIP, U.K independance party and AfD, Alternative für Deutschland) to form and gain popularity. Another issue is the expectation that countries share their wealth, if the countries such as Albania, Ukraine, Montenegro, Serbia, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzgovinia, Vactican City, and Turkey (excluding the more developed countries) were to join and economically improve, much of that wealth would e shared with the E.U and other states.



Disadvantages for Eastern Countries

One major reason why these Eastern countries should not join the E.U is the fact they are still developing countries, that are establishing their own rules. On joining the E.U, it's likely that a number of people from these countries would gain easier access to the west to work, which would fundamentally be detrimental as they would not be contributing to business and wealth within their own countries. Places like Poland have seen extremely limited economic improvement, because of the amount of workers migrating to the U.K and Germany.

Bulgaria, is another such example. Since joining the E.U in 2007 Bulgaria has continued to face issues of political corruption and poor economy. There is still an immense lack of prosperity, as the economic stagnation and student protests accross Bulgaria would prove.
As I previously alluded to, E.U membership has caused a selection of extremist political parties to rise within Bulgaria; primarily because of relaxed immigration laws.

This country in particular is proof that E.U membership would in fact not be that beneficial, in improving economy or in solving internal issues within the state.

My main questions in reponse to your argument would be: If Montentegro does have economic potential, how do you propose that "potential" will be created and distributed? E.U membership alone does not establish full economic precedence, and as I have already stated, it can set it back.

Additionally, how is it that ethnic tension will be solved from E.U inclusion? Again, this is an internal problem that requires more than an E.U membership. The conflict in the Ukraine is also not that simply resolved.
Debate Round No. 2
Kylar

Pro

Your points are so right, and I am sorry for seeming like a complete idiot. I beg your pardon for acting like a fool. I am convinced the EU will help better the European continent. However, I am so sorry my opponett if I seem like an idiot on the subject. You killed me with your argument, and I admit defeat. We didn't need 5 rounds, again though, I respect you as a friend, and an amazing expert on the subject. You are amazing in your field, and thank you again for debating. I enjoyed doing this, and I hope you aren't angry with me for how I feel on the subject.
Thanks for debating me again, I deepy appreciate it, and I hope we can become friends, please don't be angry at me about my view on the subject,
Kylar
Emilrose

Con

Of course, you are not a "fool" or an "idiot" on the subject. You make some extremely valid points about these countries improving and making progress, my own point is that it cannot be achieved effectively through the system of the E.U.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to express my views and debate this intetesting topic.

Link for round 2: http://www.newrepublic.com...
Debate Round No. 3
Kylar

Pro

Thank you, it means a lot. I appreciate you being kind to me about it, some people aren't kind to me at all in debates, especially at school. I think we both had a good time and learned a lot. I thank you again for your time and kindness.
Emilrose

Con

Well, you are as entitled as everyone else to share your opinions. It's a good thing that you're interested in debating and discussing these type of subjects.

Likewise, I thank you for yours.
Debate Round No. 4
Kylar

Pro

Thanks, I love reading the news and especially world news like the UN and the EU. It is fun debating this stuff
Emilrose

Con

You're welcome.

Same here! World affairs in particular are fascinating.
Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Mr.Chorlton 2 years ago
Mr.Chorlton
Here's another EU debate that needs voting on
http://www.debate.org...

If you have time please.
Posted by Emilrose 2 years ago
Emilrose
It is indeed. I believe moderate integration would be beneficial but definitely not within the current system.

Specifically with Eastern (Slavic) countries that are just developing and forming their own governance.
Posted by theskeptik 2 years ago
theskeptik
The EU, in its current format, is absolutely more bureaucratic than democratic, you're right there. There are a plethora of problems with the present structures. I think everyone in Europe, not only Eurosceptics, wish to see reform at almost every level. In spite of this, I think further integration can only be a good thing.
Posted by Emilrose 2 years ago
Emilrose
I agree, it's an interesting one. The main arguments for "against" are based around the foundation of laws/rules for membership countries, the money they have to contribute, etc. The E.U is more bureaucratic than democratic.
Posted by theskeptik 2 years ago
theskeptik
This is a good debating topic. I would be hard-pressed to think of reasons why every country in Europe shouldn't join the Union. I'm from Ireland, and I think it would be very beneficial for the countries of Europe, including Russia, to move towards greater integration. I am for a Federal Europe, similar to the government of the United States, so I'm keen to see Con's responses.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
KylarEmilroseTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by Atheist-Independent 2 years ago
Atheist-Independent
KylarEmilroseTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Concession by Pro. It is always nice to see somebody actually get convinced by another debater. Despite the fact that that is the point of debating, it very rarely happens.