The Instigator
BravesFan33
Pro (for)
Losing
11 Points
The Contender
RepublicanView333
Con (against)
Winning
34 Points

Ichiro > A-rod

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/7/2007 Category: Sports
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,566 times Debate No: 166
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (15)

 

BravesFan33

Pro

It's hard. They're both excellent, excellent baseball players. But I'm simply gonna have to go with Ichiro. He's just more consistent. The ability to make it seem like you're gonna to get a base hit every time you step up to the plate is unbelievable.

In just his first ever year in Major League Baseball, Ichiro hit .350 with 242 hits...whereas Alex Rodriguez hit .204. He's never hit under .300, and has never had under 200 hits. If he hadn't spent half his career in the Japanese leagues, he'd already have 3,000 hits and well on his way to dethroning Pete Rose.

I'm also daring enough to say that he has a better arm. There isn't really a statistic that exists to prove this, but watch some videos of Ichiro and his throws to home plate or third base or wherever else. Then just bathe in his excellence.

A-rod has a great arm, too...but I don't think he could throw out as many runners from the outfield as Ichiro has.

Oh and the diving catches and robbed home runs as well...the man's amazing. Watch some videos. Oh and remember that excellent streak A-rod had of like 13 errors in a month? I don't think that's possible for Ichiro to do. It's just not in his DNA to make mistakes.

-Ichiro has the record for most hits in one season (262)
-Ichiro is only the second player ever to be a Rookie of the Year and MVP in the same year
-Ichiro has hit .372 in a season
-Ichiro has more stolen bases than A-rod, and he's played in the MLB literally HALF the time A-rod has

He's a lean, mean, Japanese, base-hit machine. I get goosebumps every time he comes up, because everyone knows he's likely to get a hit and steal a base. That, to me, is the most amazing thing a hitter can do: be that consistent. I realize A-rod hits a lot more home runs, but he's also a much bigger man. And besides, Ichiro is much more likely to reach base and score, or drive in the winning run.

And have you seen Ichiro's hitting fundamentals? He's already moving down the first base line before swinging! How can you hit a rapid moving object when you're that far off balance? How is it possible? He's a freak of nature, that's how.

Feel the wrath of Japan.
RepublicanView333

Con

Hello, Bravesfan,

Anyway. There is no denying that BOTH these men are future hall of Famer But, A-Rod is the better of them and At the end of his career he may just be the best of all time.

Yes, Ichiro di bat 300 in his first year contrary to Arods 204 but you later said

"If he hadn't spent half his career in the Japanese leagues..."

Arod came right from college. Ichiro had years in a real league to get good b4 he came to the USA.

Now to say Ichiro is better than Arod hitting wise is not right. They both have there own style of hitting. Ichiro is the kind of hitter who sticks his bat out and just pokes it in the OF. Arod can hammer it on any pitch. Arod is a power hitter who will take a big swing on anypitch in the count. Ichiro is a more conservative hitter who will take pitches on end. Arod will swing at anything that is goodlooking. Ichiro may be a more patient hitter but that doesn't automatically make him better.

Now for the Arm. Yes, Ichiro has a INCREDIBLE arm...but he trains to have it. it all has to do with position. Ichiro who plays outfield trains with his arm and shoulder to give him that arm. Arod has to first of all have train the arm to fire the ball across the diamond. He has to train to field the ball properly to learn what to do in all the situations. All ichiro has to do is hit the cutoff man or throw to the base. Now don't get me wrong Outfield isn't easy. I play Right left and Center in Babe Ruth, but I also play 3rd base which is definetly harder then Outfield.

Now ichiro of course has the edge in diving things. Outfield has a boatload more chances to dive and rob homers than a 3rd baseman.

Now that "excellent streak A-rod had of like 13 errors in a month" doesn't go w/out blame. It is bad. But if you remember that was in the year Arod had switched from shortstop to 3rd so he was still learning the basics of that position.

Now about the records

-Ichiro has the record for most hits in one season (262)

Arod is a homer hitter and a big swinger. Ichiro isn't, Like I said b4

-Ichiro is only the second player ever to be a Rookie of the Year and MVP in the same year

Arod was MVP 3 times

-Ichiro has hit .372 in a season

Arod is a homer hitter and a big swinger. Ichiro isn't, Like I said b4 twice

-Ichiro has more stolen bases than A-rod, and he's played in the MLB literally HALF the time A-rod has

Arod hits more homeruns than Ichiro and Ichiro is on base more. Hence Ichiro has more chances for steals.

Now I would like to ask you one question.

If your team was down down a run with a runner on first and two outs who would you rather have up? Arod who could end it on one swing...or Ichiro who would be looking for a bunt or base hit?
Debate Round No. 1
BravesFan33

Pro

You have some pretty valid arguments, but the majority of them have some key flaws. You're young and inexperienced, however...so it's understandable.

One CRUCIAL rule of thumb in debating is to make sure that cited information is 100% accurate. False facts are devastating to your reputation.

You said that it was basically Rodriguez' first season at 3rd base, which is completely wrong. That horrible error streak took place in 2006. His first season at 3rd was with the Yankees in 2004. And even if it was his 1st year at third, it was well into the season...giving him plenty of time to adjust. Also, major leaguers are exquisite fielders, due to the thousands of reps and groundballs they've fielded in their life...so no matter what part of the diamond he's at, a groundball is a groundball. Making excuses for a player's mediocrity shows just how overrated he is.

I like this quote: "All Ichiro has to do is throw to the cutoff man or straight to the base." Yeah, you're right lol. Throwing a ball 230+ feet without a hop, with perfect accuracy, to home plate while a runner's coming home is no big deal. Anybody can do that.

Watch this video...
http://youtube.com...

Also, A-rod could never rob a home run in his life...I guarantee it. He couldn't do what Ichiro does...especially not the assist Ichiro made in the above video.

Now for hitting. A-rod went pro out of high school, not college. So there's some more false information. Shouldn't you be a little more informed about the person you're defending?

Also...the Japanese baseball leagues aren't at the level that the MLB is. Although it isn't easy hitting those Japanese pitchers...it's a lot easier than hitting the pro pitchers over here. So...Ichiro's 1st season in the MLB is a relevant comparison to A-rod's, give or take a little. Quit making excuses for mediocrity.

Oh and how do you justify this little nickname..."K-rod." Remember that? Remember the pure crapiness of A-rod's plate appearances and strikeouts in that stretch of time? It was so bad that some of his own Yankee fans were calling him K-rod.

You also try to combat Ichiro's (year after year) much higher batting averages by saying "Well...A-rod is a power hitter. He takes big swings." Sounds like another excuse to me. Did you ever consider that it might not be the measure of the swing, but instead the difference in hand-eye coordination of the 2 players? Like I said before, Ichiro's weight is way out in front of his body before he even swings, yet somehow still manages to hit line drives consistently. That's pure hand-eye coordination.

Size of swing doesn't justify batting average. Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz, and Chipper Jones all take big swings (hence their home run numbers)...but all 3 hit for a better batting average than A-rod.

And speaking of home runs, Ichiro could be a home run hitter if he wanted to. Have you seen him take batting practice before? He hit 3 or 4 out in a row. But he knows he can be much more consistent and much faster down the 1st base line by sticking to his slap-hitting technique. He cares about the team.

I'd rather have a great contact hitter than a great power hitter any day. The chances of Ichiro getting a hit are much, much higher than that of Rodriguez hitting a home run. Therefore, he's a much more consistent threat.

And about the stolen bases...Ichiro has more not because he's on base more, but because he's much faster. What about all those intentional walks A-rod gets? He's GETTING ON BASE then, isn't he? Quit making excuses. Ichiro can run laps around A-rod. Period.

Oh and most importantly, A-rod isn't a good clutch player. What did he do this postseason? Nothing. He went 4-15 and not a single home run. You can hit 100 home runs in the regular season, but if you don't hit a lick in the playoffs...in matters none. Zip. If Ichiro was in A-rod's spot...he would have gone at least 8 or 9 for 15. I guarantee it.

Oh and I'll be delighted to answer your question. My answer is that I'd rather have Ichiro...because like I said...the odds of hitting a walk-off home run are slim...and even slimmer compared to Ichiro getting a clutch base hit.

Who would you rather have up in the bottom of the 9th with the winning run on 3rd? All you need is a base hit.

Who would you rather have as a runner on 3rd when a wild pitch occurs?

Who would you rather have on the basepaths when you wanna steal a base?

Who would you rather have execute a suicide squeeze?

Base hit consistency and speed on the basepaths are the best tools a hitter can have.
RepublicanView333

Con

To your point about the 3rd base:

I am srry for my factual error. I was rushing b/c I had plans and didn't want to throwaway what I had already done so i was rushing.

Anyway look at it this way. Arod was a short stop his whole career. (12 years) Plus his high school career. He played SS in Seattle and Texas. Then out of the blue when he signed in NY he moved to 3rd. It might not look like a substancial move but it is. SS is the leader out there. Arod was used to calling people off and turning DPs and all that jazz. But know we was #2 behind Jeter. He had to learn when to let the ball go to #2 instead of take it himself He had to throw across the diamond instead of from the SS position to 1st. It is very challenging after learning one thing you whole career to then forget it and learn something else. Also #rd is substantioly closer to the plate than SS so if a shot is hit to him he has less time to adjust to it. He know has to take butn bare handed and barely moving. All of this he NEVER did at SS So even in his 3rd year he wouldn't be fully adjusted compared to his 12 at short. OF is no way harder than 3rd. In the OF there are a substantiolly less amount of chances to make a error, not that it won't happen, but comparing errors to a infielder in general to a outfielder isn't a fair comparison.

Yes, Ichiro is great at what he does BUT it is because he trains to be good at it. He trains to make those throws...to rob home runs. Arod trains to field grounders and throw bullts across a diamond. Arod trains to throw faster not farthar. Yes, I to Arod could rob a homer or throw a guy out at home. but like I said if he did what Ichiro did to train all his career I "guarantee" he could.

So, Arod came out of high school...And Ichiro came out of the Japanese league. And there first years are relevant...O.K. So If any old high school kid went to the Japanese league he could tee off since "its nothing like MLb pitches"
I really doubt that. Even if Japanese league isn't Major league like its closer than high school and minor league so It isn't relevant.

Now you really can't seriously not take type of hitter into consiteration when you talk about Batting Avg. If you have a hitter who has the power Arod does (more than Manny, Ortiz, and Jones) than his B.A. is going to be lower. Arod puts more power into his swing. Which lower his control of the bat. but that doesn't diminish his goodness.
Look at the stats from 07 comparing Suzuki to Arod:

TEAM POS G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG
I. Suzuki SEA OF 161 678 111 238 22 7 6 68 292 49 77 37 8 .396 .431 .351

A Rod NYY 3B 158 583 143 183 31 0 54 156 376 95 120 24 4 .422 .645 .314

Now look at the stats. Arod scored more runs. Had more doubles. 9x more home runs MORE THAN TWICE THE AMOUNT OF RBIS, Had 84 more total bases, more walks, and only 13 less steals but Ichiro got caught twice the amount of times Arod did. Arods OBP is 26 points higher. and his slugging is 214 points higher.

Yea relly Ichiro could be a HR hitter "if he wanted to" just b/c of what he does in BP. Pure cock bull. In BP the coaches or pitchers lob it over the plate just to warm the hitter up. It means NOTHING to how good the hitter is.

Of course getting a hit is more likely than a HR but Arod can do both. He can hit homers and get hits and Xtra base hits. (Just look at the chart) But w/ ichiro he needs support. W/ a base hitter you need some one to drive him in. Arod can drive himself in all on his lonesome.

Now have you heard a saying "a walk is the equivalent of a hit. Just with our the pride" Well, according to my stats Arod gets almost 2x the amount of walks Ichiro does (intentional or not) point is it gets him on base.

Oh, and what did Ichiro do in the postseason. Nothing. Arod literally CARRIEd the Yanks t othe playoffs. And you can't just blame him ALL the Yankees didn't produce. Actually Arod had his best postseason and was one of the most productive yanks. (even when he slumps hes productive). And you might want to get your facts straight. Arod hit a homer in the yanks last game keeping them in it.

To your ?s.

Who would you rather have up in the bottom of the 9th with the winning run on 3rd? All you need is a base hit.
I would chose anybody b/c a base hit would drive anyone home no matter there speed.

Who would you rather have as a runner on 3rd when a wild pitch occurs?
Same as b4 Arod or Ichiro would score b/c they are both fast. Even if it wasn't them. Even David Ortiz would score on a wild pitch

Who would you rather have on the basepaths when you wanna steal a base?
Arod b/c of my stats he gets thrown out less.

Who would you rather have execute a suicide squeeze?
You don't have to be "special" to bunt. All you have to do is have it hit the bat...even a pitcher could do that

"Base hit consistency and speed on the basepaths are the best tools a hitter can have."
Arod is consistant w/ more power, and he still can run the bases pretty good. I'd take the power with the ability to punch one for a hit anyday compared to someone who can only get hits.
Debate Round No. 2
BravesFan33

Pro

BravesFan33 forfeited this round.
RepublicanView333

Con

O.k. well, since I have nothing to debate I will just bestow a couple thoughts on you.:

Based upon Alex Rodriguez's 44 Home Run for every 162 games average, he'd surpass 700 home runs in about 4 � seasons, which would set him around 36 or 37 years old, which was approximately the age when Barry Bonds broke the 500 mark. Based upon talent and pure numbers, Alex Rodriguez is going to pass every player ahead of him and eventually break Barry Bonds home run record of 762 assuming that he(Bonds) doesn't play anymore and Arod doesn't get injured.
but even if he is injured he has atleast another 5 years if he playes old.

Well, Bravefan I'd like to quote a friend of mine Righty10294:

"This isn't a blog. You need to debate someone when you start a debate."

I hope you will come back and finish.
Debate Round No. 3
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Posted by shlh1514 9 years ago
shlh1514
A-ROD has the chance to break the ALL-TIME Home runs record to 800 HR and HR'S are the most important thing of the game!
Posted by RepublicanView333 9 years ago
RepublicanView333
Never mind my last statement i didn't kno it was the last statement
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