If Atheists really believed in logic and science without deluding themselves they would go insane.
First round acceptance.
Anyways I actually there was a time when I thought that religion was pretty stupid. So, I tried to think of a better explanation for well life. Then I realised how little we know and no matter how media tricks you and we some how believe that we are the "main characters" in the "story" there really is no reason why we should eventually find everything out. In fact there is no reason for it to make sense.
So, I sat there asking why do I not want to die. I mean why is good good? The only reason I can think of that it stops pain which in turn prolongs survival. Not directly, but humans avoid pain. I believe because instinct tells them their life is endangered by pain. Thus they avoid it. So, yea there is your wonderful "good".
It helps survival. We haven't gotten a clue why we feel the need to survive and reproduce, but we are just going to delude ourselves and say its because of magic...or we'll ignore it.
Just like greed. Another wonderful thing that helps humanity more than we'd like to admit. Seriously everything just comes together to have us survive, reproduce and then inevitably die.
I recently saw a really dumb atheist thing that said something along the lines of,"Religious people do good things because they are scared of going to hell and atheists to good things 'cause it the human thing to do."
Something like that. I sat there and burst out laughing. I mean being "evil" is just as human. And like I said good is just a thing created by evolution to help us survive. Seriously, I'd like atheists to give me another explanation.
If we did not delude ourselves we'd probably know that we know nothing. Your supposed oh so great knowledge really is nothing. We just saw a tree and called it tree. Then we said its was green and big. Than we saw grass and said it was also green and small. All the while we did not really know a thing about it.
Oh, yea we saw atoms and named then atoms, then we saw some protons and neutrons and some quarks. We could have just as well called these things X and Y and Z. Said that the tree is X then the grass is X-5. Well, okay not really, but I'm trying to say its just a giant algebraic equation. We give stuff names and then say what other stuff are according to them.
And I know what your are thinking,"Oh, but we'll find out..."
NO! Where is the logic or evidence? Nowhere! You don't even really know what logic is! Oh, yea go on to say its making reasonable deductions...I'll ask what that is....and then what that is...enc.
You'll probably end with something like,"Its a way humans work things out in a way that makes sense to the human mind."
Something like that. Well, you know maybe we can't process that info. Why should we?
We are not special. There is no proof of "love" being more than a survival instinct or a reproduction instinct. No proof of other people even being conscious or experiencing the world in a remotely similar way you do.
When you look at life in a truly logical way it becomes cold desolate and lonely.
You can't dream anymore because you know its...well you know nothing. Its futile. Everything just to survive and then you...die.
If atheists did not delude themselves and were willing to look that truth in the eyes they would go what people who still delude themselves call "insane". But, they refuse to look it in the eye. Much better to ignore it.
Because if you looked it straight in the eye you realise everything, everything is futile.
Good and bad. Nothing.
You are not part of something bigger than you. No matter what the movies say.
You are just part of a bunch of organisms living on a floating rock. Wake up.
Sometimes we have problems with knowledge because we have difficulties obtaining it. Being in school, gaining knowledge is mandatory, and people can respond negatively to being forced to learn, but the knowledge you gain in that class can actually help you succeed further down the line. It sounds strange, but it’s possible that you can forget how to learn (5)
I am arguing this as a non-religious and non-atheist person. Just a insane person who knows they know nothing and is pretty much just having fun.
This argument is simply about pointing out that no matter how atheists go on about how "rational" they are, they pretty much delude themselves too.
Now, on to the argument.
I said without deluding yourself! How on earth do you know that these people did not delude themselves. In fact I think they most likely did. Or they were very, very passive people.
Deluding yourself includes thinking that you are "helping society" by gathering more knowledge. Looking from a truly logical and hard perspective there is not reason to doing that.
Why does that person want to help society? There is no reason to do that except for the "feelings" in you head that tells you to strive to help your species so that it can survive longer. The person does not know. Deluding yourself includes that.
No one knows anything. Most people believe they have purpose. Once again no sound reasoning behind it. And don't come and tell me you don't believe that secretly. If my opponent did not believe that, he would not bother to post a reply.
But, no my opponent believes life means something. He believes that maybe he is doing good by spreading the knowledge he believes he is by debating me. If he asks himself why, gets an answer and asks why again...and continues like that eventually he would realise he does not know.
He deludes himself into thinking life has a point. Maybe he believes emotions are more than just fluids in our brains even. No matter how hard atheists try and deny it they also delude themselves in the back of their mind. Whispering that whatever they are doing has a point. That they are part of something bigger.
At least religious people ask for an explanation. Sure, most of the time its far fetched, here is a thing I wrote which its a dumbed down way of seeing it, but will be sufficient for the purposes of this argument.
"Hey, welcome to life! Its pretty much pointless since you die at the end. But, you need to be this thing called "good" and you may not be "bad. You should also want things. That is called "greed". Also you do not want to die. You don't know what happens when you die. It probably feels like sleeping. Just nothing. And...uh just don't think about how futile life is and how everything come down to nothing. You also have science to help you think you know stuff. Its like algebra you just fill stuff in to a "normal" and think you know stuff. Also it won't explain what happens when you die or even bother with purpose and your species and planet also most likely be swallowed by the sun. Nothing makes sense and logic will only take you so far. Have fun." Says scary voice.
Deluded atheist: Sounds cool.
Religious person: Why...?
Scary voice: 'Cause magic!
Religious person: Ok!
Real Atheist: ...that is...(really you'd go insane)
In conclusion, many atheists see "science" as their almost "deity?" and then believe that it will somehow save humanity and we'll eventually be great or know everything. Even a underdog story with "science" being the hero. We'll escape planet earth and live happily ever after thanks to "science". They have no reason for this expect the human hope and natural avoidance of the futility of life.
That is not what science is.
Maybe religion is just a coping mechanism for others. Maybe otherwise religious people would go insane. I mean try and really think about it. We refuse, refuse to think we are nothing.
Its human nature to delude yourself to avoid that. Its logical. Its helps you survive.
We don't know why, though, and we are not allowed to think about why we don't know. We are not allowed to question it. We can hardly even think like that. We fear what we do not know and delude ourselves. Saying it does not matter.
It does not matter we have no idea what happens after death. It does not matter we won't exist. It just does not...
No matter that all human reason tells us to avoid death.
Evolution is literally created upon a concept of survival of the fittest. Survival. Avoiding death for the longest and reproducing.
Our brains are made to accept it. We are made to delude ourselves and its very, very hard not to.
The comments have nothing to do with the actual debate so don't worry about that.
There is very little content in my opponent's argument actually regarding the insanity of atheists so I will just quote out anything I can find regarding the actual topic and respond to it.
"good is just a thing created by evolution to help us survive. Seriously, I'd like atheists to give me another explanation."
Good was not created by evolution. Atheism has nothing to do with being good or bad. As an atheist being good or bad is a choice. Therefore atheists have free will. Being religious usually means that you are forced to be good. It tells you that you must behave in certain ways otherwise something will happen to you, ie. go to hell. This leads many theists to think that morality stems from God and that without religion and God people can no longer act morally. This claim is false. If you analyze the major religions in greater detail you will notice the flaws in their rules. Religions do not tell us to be good. Religion tells us to behead those that convert; to mock the disabled for people bad in their previous lives. Religion tells us to tell our children that if they decide to convert they will go to Hell for an eternity.
" We give stuff names and then say what other stuff are according to them."
Does this have any relevance to the topic that we are discussing?
"No proof of other people even being conscious or experiencing the world in a remotely similar way you do."
There is lots of evidence that other people are conscious. The most obvious evidence is that their behavior makes a lot more sense if you assume they are conscious, and doesn't make much sense at all if you assume they are not (1).
Do you require further evidence? If the answer is yes then I will provide it:
"1. Person A can’t teach person B what word W means, if A doesn’t know what W means.
2. One can’t know what ‘consciousness’ means if one is not conscious.
From 1 and 2 =>
3.Person A can’t teach person B what ‘consciousness’ means, if A isn’t conscious.
4.I learned word ‘conscious’ from the people in the linguistic community.
From 4 and 3 =>
5. People in the linguistic community are conscious.
OK, now you know… you are conscious." (2)
I will quote from my importance of knowledge contention:
"Knowledge is what allows us to drive cars instead of ride horses, it is what helps us survive far longer than we should, and knowledge is even what prevents us from making the same mistakes that we have made in the past."
"You are just part of a bunch of organisms living on a floating rock. Wake up."
This is exactly what atheists believe. They understand what we are and that is why they don't believe in God. We are organisms on a rock in the middle of nowhere. Why would God put us here? Since your beliefs are coinciding with atheism you are essentially either doing one of the following:
b) Calling yourself delusional.
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