The Instigator
visionsofdylan
Pro (for)
Losing
6 Points
The Contender
KidateK
Con (against)
Winning
27 Points

If Only Hitler Listened to His Generals......

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/4/2008 Category: News
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,302 times Debate No: 2406
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (11)

 

visionsofdylan

Pro

If Hitler listened to his generals and decided not to be stubborn and take the military into his own hands, the USA and the allies would have lost the war. I will let my opponent make their points first but I just want to clarify that I am not a Nazi nor Nazi sympathizer. I just feel they were superior and could have won the war if played it right.
KidateK

Con

I would have to disagree with this. I believe that even if Hitler had listened to his generals he still would have lost the war.

The first reason for why this is true is that one, the u.s. would not have entered the war if it had not been for the Japaneses bombing pearl harbor. Therefore whether or not Hitler had listened to his generals would not have affected whether or not the u.s. had entered the war.

With this then the Germans did not effect whether or not the u.s. created the atomic bomb which essentially ended the war with the japan after at the end of WW2. So if this is what had happened with Japan to end the war then it is not a large leap of logic to see that this could have easily happened to Germany if they were still a large threat in the war.

Seeing this then it is easy to see why even if Hitler had listened to his generals, he still would have lost. Due to the u.s. entering the war regardless of Hitler. Or of the atomic bomb being used on Germany or at least a threat for that country to stand down. Therefore, i urge a negative vote.
Debate Round No. 1
visionsofdylan

Pro

Hitler made the decisions about what types and how many tanks and aircraft to produce. He was a very poor judge of what Nazi Germany needed, both strategically and operationally, to fight the war efficiently. One example of this is he ignored the jet fighter until the closing months of the war. If he allowed the production of the jet fighter as soon as he found out about it, 1941-ish, he would have the most advanced planes being flown by the best pilots in the world. These pilots of course are Luftwaffe. These planes could have stopped the USA and Great Britain's air raids and without their bombing offensive, there probably wouldn't have been a invasion of Normandy. He also didn't take advantage of the V-1 and V-2 rockets. If he allowed this program to expand, such a missile would be able to cross the channel and destroy airfields, assembly areas and harbors. These missiles would also have been able to reach Russia and take out their large army formations. And eventually, their missiles would have been able to reach the US of A.

Now to the if Hitler let his generals control the military. Hitler took control of the war in early 1942, even though he had minimal military training or skills. In making decisions, he was rash and hasty. He made very unrealistic assumptions and gave Spartan-like "no retreat" policies to his troops. He gave full-scale attack orders without fully understanding the realities that the Nazi commanders would have. He was so obsessed with the elimination of the Jews and Bolsheviks, that little else mattered to him at that point. These mistakes by Hitler certainly helped the Allies in many ways.

I think the Eastern Front shows that Hitler was not a military genius and in fact, had no right controlling that military.

Would they have won the war if he let his commanders do the planning and if he pursued proper strategic programs. Possibly. But one thing is for sure. It would have been much harder for the Allies to beat them if so.
KidateK

Con

In your closing statement you say that the Germans could have Possibly won and that victory would have been much harder on the Allies had the control of the German army gone to the generals. However according to the resolution that you posted it says that Hitler would not have lost World War 2 had the generals had control. Therefore, in your closing statement you are contradicting the resolution that you posted.

In your first paragraph you state that Germans had superior flying abilities, this is not neccessarily true. The Allies had many excellent fliers as well The Angels of Annihilation, who were recurited to take down the Flying Circus, and the British Sopwith Camel to name a few. Therefore, you cannot just go out and assume that Germans had the superior flying ability when both sides had many amazing dog fighters. Also you say that Hitler was a ignorant of the weapons that he had, this may be true, but we must also look at the state that Germany was in. After the first world war, Germany was to take full blame for the war as well as cut their army down, destroy and no longer make their U-boats, and pay back all Allied countries that they hurt. This caused Germany to be in such a state of economic collapse that they would not have had the money nor resources to create such weapons that would largely affect the war, since most resources were going towards funding rebuilding Germany and paying back the other countries.

You also claim that Hitler was ignorant and obessed in wiping out the Jews and others. This is not exactly correct either, due to the stirct regulations put on Germany after the war, Hitler used this to restrengthen Germany. Since the German army was cut, he had a rotation system in place, where the German army would train soldiers and then send them home. This system of rotating soldiers in the army allowed them to once again have military strength. As for the Jews and others, one of the best was to rally a nation is to have an enemy that the people of that nation can actively move against themselves. This enemy he portaryed as the Jews and Bolsheviks. As this happened it gave the German people a person whom they could blame the loss of World War One on and then use this feeling to rally the people and quickly increase the strength of the German nation.

Also once again the Germans had no effect on whether or not the U.S.A. entered the War. Being as they were already working more explosive bombs, which led to the creation of the atomic bomb. It becomes obvious that the Germans would have lost the war regardless of whoever was in charge. Since when the atomic bomb was created it could have been dropped on Germany itself or more likely it would have been used to threaten the Germans to stand down. For these reasons I strongly ugre a vote for the Con.
Debate Round No. 2
visionsofdylan

Pro

visionsofdylan forfeited this round.
KidateK

Con

(...is that me or him...because I had thought that I had posted my agruement in time about how whether Hitler had listened to his generals he still would have lost the war...)
Debate Round No. 3
visionsofdylan

Pro

visionsofdylan forfeited this round.
KidateK

Con

Ohh right, now I get it. Sorry.

So now I will sum up how this round has gone and give the reasons as to why I should be given the vote. Firstly, as I explained already, whether or not Hitler listened to his generals did not affect if the U.S. entered the war. Second, my opponent was contradicting himself about the resolution that he made. Third, that my opponent broke the rules by not responding and so therefore should forefeit. And finally, for the fact that the rest of the world had as good of fighters as Germany. It is for these reasons that I believe that I should win this round.
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by John_Quincy_Adams 9 years ago
John_Quincy_Adams
I have taken a course on Nazi Germany and gone over all teh information presented here many times. The argument is a fallacy because the things that drove Hitler to try to control the military are the same reasons he was able to rise to power. Had he possesed a personality that would prevented his idiotic wartime measures, he would have also had a personlity that prevented his rise and eventual position. You can't be a megalomaniac for years and then turn it off.
Posted by the_conservative 9 years ago
the_conservative
not at all Henry.....it was'nt where the Luftwaffe bombed because the RAF was still there to meet them, it was the braveness of the pilots.
Posted by Patrick_Henry 9 years ago
Patrick_Henry
If the Luftwaffe had been allowed to continue to wage the Battle of Brittan in the air against the RAF instead of begining to bomb civilian targets, the United Kingdom would have had their air power swiftly reduced to zero, giving the necessary control of the skies to mount a successful invasion, which is what the British were utterly terrified of.

The fact that a pilot accidentally bombed London, and caused Churchill to order a strike against Berlin, which in turn caused Hitler to order a focus made on London instead of the RAF saved the British in the war.

The United States had a strong benefit in the Isle of Britain as we were able to use it as a base of supply, a staging ground, and as a home to air support and offensive air strikes. It may not have been possible to wage a successful offensive into Europe without the logistical aid of having the British Isles right there.

The United States may have been forced to take a diplomatic route out of the war before 1943, and before we had successfully industrialized and brought the full advantage of our raw and untapped resources to bear on Europe.
Posted by the_conservative 9 years ago
the_conservative
Look up Operation Barbarossa under google. If he had never attacked the USSR then and still kept the treaty,he still couldve had a better chance. That is when it went downhill. He should've listened to Rommel
11 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by John_Quincy_Adams 9 years ago
John_Quincy_Adams
visionsofdylanKidateKTied
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Vote Placed by trayhayes 9 years ago
trayhayes
visionsofdylanKidateKTied
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Vote Placed by paul_tigger 9 years ago
paul_tigger
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Vote Placed by Shorack 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by mrqwerty 9 years ago
mrqwerty
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Vote Placed by kels1123 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by sccrplyr40 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by blond_guy 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by the_conservative 9 years ago
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