The Instigator
Aerogant
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Domr
Con (against)
Winning
20 Points

If You Complain About Pain; You Will Not Learn From Pain

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
Domr
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/8/2014 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,404 times Debate No: 60185
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (135)
Votes (5)

 

Aerogant

Pro

Rules: There is no such thing as BOP, Source, Resolution, Tautology or Answer in a debate that involves a more philosophical approach, rather than a political approach, (by using these terms, or their synonymous forms, you have thus forfeited this discussion), as this debate still can go ways in, but will not do well in answering itself. It deals with something that is on a grand level, which can only be figured out so much before you start realizing that you have to look for more pieces before you continue on locating the correlations between the universal paradigms (e.g bees behaving like electrons), therefore it would be best to discuss this on a powerful level of analysis, instead of a petty level of answer-ability.

Argument: Complaining is a form of deflecting and rationalizing what is otherwise the inevitability of your existential calamity.
Domr

Con

Thank you for making this debate. Per your rules, I will not need to define anything, use any sources, or ask you to do any of these. I assume we will be making large amounts of similies and analogies to describe our points on a "grander level" to invoke a more 'meaningful' revelation at the debates end.


Now, Let's get down to business:


Pain is like a thunderstorm. The darkness of the clouds represents your emotions through this tumultuous time. The rain is constantly falling, feeling it radiating from your body as a constant reminder of whatever someone (or yourself) has done to cause this pain.

Lightning strikes...This is the sharp pains we feel; Emotional or physical.

The loud thunder is the agony of our sorrow. Coming after the immense pain of the "lightning"



Many people thoroughly enjoy thunderstorms, they may even find them calming. There are also people who are scared of the thunderstorms.

There are a number of people who's day this thunderstorm may ruin.




The complaints of this storm (the pain) is a reminder to us of how we are constantly evaluating everything in our lives. This evaluation, while mal-productive, is still a learning experience.

Complaining rarely gives us immediate-gratification. But in the long run, that complaint-invoking feeling will remind us of how to cope, or make things easier to bear through the difficult time.

This is us learning through our complaints for the next storm.


Debate Round No. 1
Aerogant

Pro

That is the wisest piece of literature you've ever written; my brain was resonating with the analogies throughout the whole thing.

This may end up being semantics in the end, as you understand the relationship between how thunderstorms and tensions occur in this Universe - I am baffled by this surprise, as beforehand I was worried you were going to ruin my philosophical debate. How you interpret it as "complaining", rather than "understanding" is going to perhaps be the heart of this discussion.

Second Argument: Complaining is not at all a way to face tension - it's to reduce tension; reducing it causes the issue to linger, while facing it causes it to disappear.
Domr

Con

As my opponent has seemingly enjoyed my analogy of a thunderstorm as a basis for pain, I will try to continue down the road of thunderstorms...

Second Argument: Complaining is not at all a way to face tension - it's to reduce tension; reducing it causes the issue to linger, while facing it causes it to disappear.



This storm is seemingly getting out of hand with no end in sight. Hail is falling as we try to reach our destination by car. Our complaints are the windshield wipers trying to increase our visibility down this winding road. Uncertain of when this storm will pass.

By discerning the road ahead of us by reducing the rain on our window (through the complaints of windshield wipers), we are able to safely navigate through the storm.


There is not much more analogy to place on this, so I know will give a literal response to the "Second Argument"

By reducing the tension in our life, or this moment/episode of pain, it is easier to face the problem. Decisions are best made during the least amount of tension. Clear thinking and rationality are the cornerstones of good and firm decisions.

Will we reach our destination before the storm ends? Will be be able to face the pain cause before the pain subsides?

The best thing we can do is lessen our tension/troubles/pain and using that as a learning tool of how to cope for future storms.

As I previously mentioned, immediate gratification is not possible through complaints alone, but can help us learn what is causing the issue and better help ourselves in the future.

Debate Round No. 2
Aerogant

Pro

The wind shield wipers serving as a way to express the nature of complaining is brilliant, however I do not believe, again, that you understand that this is not "facing"; this is "reducing" still. The wind shield wipers tend to smudge your window at times, which can create more problems than before. Using your analogy as to further my argument, this is to say that to "face" something, is to stop the car so you your life's journey does not end up in a wreck.

Third Argument: You are pertaining "complaining" to false associations like wind-shield wipers as to say that this is a proper analogy for complaining, when complaining is everything that a child does when they are deflecting pain. The wind-shield wipers are like flailing your arms in tension, which causes your form of vision to be less visible, as you cannot see through the wind-shield wipers or your flailing arms as well as when the vision is clear from obstruction. This is arguing semantics. The proper terms are "facing" and "understanding" the pain - reducing and complaining about the pain does not accurately fit your analogy.
Domr

Con

In a storm this bad, having your wipers on full speed can be very similiar to flailing your arms about. But there is still a purpose to try to reduce your tension and seeing things clearly.

This is the most important aspect of the debate. You are claiming: nothing is learned through complaints about pain.

I am arguing that complaining does not solve the problem, nor is complaining facing the problem. However, complaining, as you said, reduces tension. This allows a tension-free (or just less tension) to be weighing on our decision making process.

If the storm is so bad that your wipers do you know good, you now know better for NEXT time, whn something gets this bad, it is better to not complain in that point.

Everything is a learning experience. Our complaints can help us make decisions for the current problem, or can help us know what to do the next time this problem comes around.


If you leave your wipers on during monsoon0like weather conditions, your visiblity is still minimal and could cause you to get into an accident. Your trial and error is a lesson for the next time you are driving in this type of incliment weather to pull over and let the storm pass.

By pulling over, this does not mean we should turn our wipers off either. Because stoping your doesn't mean someone else's car will be stopped during their storm as well.

Literally speaking:

Complaining allows us to make better decisions. These decisions can either be made in that moment of pain, or be a lesson on how to handle future pain. Regardless of when this lesson is learned, complaints give us knowledge of what we are feeling, how we are feeling, and what do to when we feel like this again.
Debate Round No. 3
Aerogant

Pro

This is a philosophical discussion; there's no claims, only explanations that are agreed upon or disagreed upon.

Fourth Argument: Think of people like opals and diamonds. Think of how the diamond is formed compared to an opal. Why does something so shiny, cold and beautiful; which also serves as a prism, exist because of it making it through so much years of pressure and tension? Let me ask you another question: Why is it that when people complain, they resort to noise; when people explain, they resort to sense? How about this question: Before I give into masturbating, I feel strong and mighty; after giving into masturbating, I feel mushy and weak. When we give into things; when we complain to not face this tension, our lives are equivalent to fat, which is why people that do not face pain are easily burned by this passion. Complaining does not reduce tension in the sense that you are able to then re-evaluate yourself - it reduces in the sense that a person runs away from a wild fire that they created themselves, in turn the wild fire grows smaller as they widen their distance, but in actuality, the fire roars at the same size while ending the lives of innocent people.

You say complaining allows us to make better decisions, yet people can't make decisions while complaining - they have to stop complaining to start explaining to themselves. Pain is knowledge of what we are feeling - to complain is eluding that knowledge of what we are feeling, hence why we complain and play the blame game.
Domr

Con

As the wildfire of pain beings, our best option is to run away, instead of being engulfed by flames.

The wide spectrum view given when we delay facing our problems (through complaining) can give us a clear mind.

Evaluating each reason we feel this pain before we choose to face it. These reasons come from our pain.



If we leave our fire in the woods unattended, and come back and begin to see it spread, we choose to run away (complain of our pain). We MAY have been able to stop the fire before it spread too far engulfing the forest, but we chose to leave the forest preventing our consumption by flame.

We learned from putting off our pain temporarily, by saving us from disaster.

IF we realize we could have prevented this from occuring, we know have LEARNED complaint was not the best choice. We would not have learned this lesson without complaining.

We could have saved the forest from a fire.


Complaining will not solve ANY problems, EVER. But it can make it easier to help us figure out what the cause of the problem is, and help us figure out how to handle future problems of similar nature.
Debate Round No. 4
Aerogant

Pro

Last Argument: Let me give you an example. Let's say we are teaching a military man that lacks intelligence on how to place a circle-shaped object into a circle-shaped hole, and he takes the circle-shaped object and tries to put it into the square-shaped hole. There are two types of circumstances that can surface here: 1) The military man will explain to themselves on how to make sense out of this very difficult puzzle game. 2) The military man will rage and complain to themselves on how this game stinks and starts slamming the piece into the wrong hole, eventually causing the light-weight product to collapse under pressure which allows the monkey man to think he managed to solve the puzzle, when in fact what he did was equivalent to knocking over the pieces during chess.

When you "complicate" the word "pain", you get "complain". I still say that one cannot contemplate and complain at the same time. You either use your brain, or use your rage. There's nothing else to it. Complaining just complicates everything. When I complain during a game, I end up losing a lot more - when I explain to myself on what to do during a game, I do things I normally could not do. Wise men do not complain - they explain, and do not complain to reach the stage of explaining.
Domr

Con

Rage and complain are not synonymous.

If a bee stings me, I swat at it out of rage, and try to kill it out of rage for what it did to me.

Itching, stating the feeling the bee sting gives me is a complaint.


If the itching begins to spread, and the pain becomes more immense, my complaints can save my life. An inflammatory action is occuring my body. My body is rushing everything possible to the sting site, like animals herding across the plains.

If my body cannot do enough to subside my pain, my complaints can raise red flags to those I am complaining to.

Why does it hurt this bad? Why is he still complaining? It's just a bee sting right?.....

!!!

Is he allergic? Has his itching and pain spread?

My complaints can help me realize what pain is catastrophic vs. nonsensical.

A minor bee sting is nothing to complain about for too long. But an allergic reaction can be deadly. You are learning, by your complaints, on how to assess certain situations by your pain levels.



A man struggling with fitting the right pieces into the correct shape is showing animalistic rage when smashing the piece through. This leaves the pieces visibly mangled. Like putting a nail in a post.

His rage overtook his pain and caused a physical outburst, his emotions bursting aside him.

If he were to complain and show his disdain to such a task he cannot complete, is more like a walking into a brisk wind. It is something you feel, and may take a few leaves off of a tree, but the damage is miniscule.


Complaints are merely words in the wind voicing displeasure. This displeasure can amount to something more serious in this same instance, or teach us that the pain we are currently feeling is nothing to be ashamed of, and despite complaining, or not complaining the pain will subside.

Complaints are a gauge of our personal feelings. Pain is a stressor in our life. Complaints and pain can go hand in hand as a learning experience for now and the future.
Debate Round No. 5
135 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Aerogant 2 years ago
Aerogant
Thus why you will never be wise, let alone understand them.
Posted by Domr 2 years ago
Domr
one of us.
Posted by Aerogant 2 years ago
Aerogant
The wise never say this. The cultist does.
Posted by Domr 2 years ago
Domr
ONE of US!
Posted by Aerogant 2 years ago
Aerogant
It was directed myself, as it felt good typing it out because even though I am aware of it, the fact that others aren't is exactly why your logic does not apply to my situation.

I am learning from this on how to deal with idiots, because it seems that the entire issue with idiots is that they do not know they are idiots or at least proud of being an idiot because it's just too much work to be intelligent.
Posted by Domr 2 years ago
Domr
Why would just a redundant rhetorical question?

If you're brain is a genius...then you're brain already knows the answer, so physically typing all of this out, to someone with a primate-like brain..like me.. is so redundant it is stupid.

stupid...one of us!
Posted by Aerogant 2 years ago
Aerogant
It was a rhetorical question...

I am not a genius - my brain is the genius. Again, I am managing it all. My honesty and integrity allowed my brain to grow into an elder tree, which now means it basically picks up on things for me and I transpose that into human language.
Posted by Domr 2 years ago
Domr
Because you're a genius remember? Why do you ask questions that you THINK you've already answered?

You believe your on a grander/higher thinking level/waves of most people.

Why would you redundantly ask a question of why you're surrounded by these people...unless you are just denying that you're really one of us...

...one of the....stupid!
Posted by Aerogant 2 years ago
Aerogant
No, stupid does what stupid is. Why am I surrounded by so many colloquially illiterate buffoons that just repeat colloquially illiterate phrases?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Posted by Domr 2 years ago
Domr
stupid is as stupid does
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by saboosa 2 years ago
saboosa
AerogantDomrTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro had nothing beneficial to this argument
Vote Placed by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
AerogantDomrTied
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Reasons for voting decision: R2, all pro did was nearly concede, and commit the moving the goalpost fallacy (expecting con to answer to a second argument, without having first answered the first himself). Pro at least tried to disagree with con in R3, By the final round pro degraded into insulting the armed forces, thankfully he had already lost conduct from moving the goalpost in repetition, otherwise I would be conflicted by this personal attack made against so many people that was entirely off topic from the debate. ... Argument, pro did not live up to his own duty in this debate, was unable to accurately refute cons points, whereas con did preform his duty and did a good job on refutations. ... NOTE: As a former army medic, complaining about pain tends to be key to getting a problem fixed (thus learn from it); as opposed to the suck it up mentality.
Vote Placed by Phoenix61397 2 years ago
Phoenix61397
AerogantDomrTied
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Reasons for voting decision: This debate was rather confusing, but I feel con provided better similes.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
AerogantDomrTied
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Reasons for voting decision: pro did nothing
Vote Placed by Sagey 2 years ago
Sagey
AerogantDomrTied
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Reasons for voting decision: I voted for Con, only because I though his analogies, especially the Storm Analogy is closer to an analogy of Pain, yet I disagree with both sides as I see complaining does nothing, except if it is to a doctor/nurse who may find the reason and thus treat it, which is also in Con's favor. But the complaint itself does nothing, it neither reduces the pain nor teaches the complainer. The pain will still be there until the body's own corticoids arrive to try and reduce it.