The Instigator
jujubean
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Oliark
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

If a Student Fails a Class, should they repeat it?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/2/2014 Category: People
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,088 times Debate No: 66185
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

jujubean

Pro

If a student fails a class, then it should be mandatory to repeat, otherwise, the students will not have the necessary knowledge to succeed in life. Also, it's not fair to those who are awesome honor role students who actually try, to have to be in the same classes and graduate with people who don't even care anyway, but they still pass and graduate.
Oliark

Con



"If a student fails a class, then it should be mandatory to repeat, otherwise, the students will not have the necessary knowledge to succeed in life"

false assumption : to pass every single class is necessary to succeed in life

Example : Of course if you fail Math at school you will never be able to study accounting or economics at college level but you do not need maths to study drama or law for example

No school subject is an universal prerequisite for succeeding in life !
http://www.newyouth.ca...

Also keep in mind that most people do not pursue higher education, most school subjects are not at all prerequisites for their future profession

"Also, it's not fair to those who are awesome honor role students who actually try, to have to be in the same classes and graduate with people who don't even care anyway, but they still pass and graduate."


Without night there is no day ! Awesome students exist because other students are not that good.
(but bad students in school can also succeed in life)


I will give my arguments next round if you can back your claims with facts






Debate Round No. 1
jujubean

Pro

Alright. I see your point. But according to http://cop.hlcommission.org... , one of the main reasons kids fail classes, is because they don't have enough motivation. Maybe kids just need a second chance. It wouldn't kill them to repeat one class. I mean, think about it this way: A girl or boy makes a mistake at a job. They need a second chance because all it was, was an honest mistake, but then they don't get one. They'll be heartbroken because they didn't get a second chance. They think, "Oh, this is just a repeat of high school when I failed a class because I never got a second chance like I needed", and then they're stuck working at Wal-Mart or at a Rest Stop, or whatever they can do, to make some money. I mean, everything we're taught in school, is important, otherwise we wouldn't be taught it. And to go to Law School and nice jobs and stuff, you need good grades. You can't have good grades, if you fail a class and can't repeat it. Students need a 2nd chance. Also, sometimes they fail because they are going through troubles at home and they can't focus on school because it's so bad, or maybe they're being bullied and all they're focused on is when they'll get beat up next, and how to make it not hurt as much. You never know what some one is going through. So I say give us a second chance!
Oliark

Con

Students already have a second chance, they are free to repeat their last years of school if they feel their grades are not high enough for what they want.

"It wouldn't kill them to repeat one class"

Tell me when would one have to repeat that class ?
During the summer (system used in many European countries) ? Students lacking motivation will not perform any better if forced to study during summertime. In fact many will be lazier during the year knowing they will get a second chance.
And they will probably end dropping school if failing multiple times.

Failing a class is no big deal ! No one cares if you fail Math in 10th grade and you can still pass in 11and12th grades. The best the school can do is to trust you and let you pass even with a single fail.
Now if someone has not the grades he needs to enter a specific college giving him a second chances the same year would be unfair towards students who have performed well on the first attempt. Everyone should be given equal chances to succeed.


"And to go to Law School and nice jobs and stuff, you need good grades. You can't have good grades, if you fail a class and can't repeat it."

1) There are plenty of nice jobs where you do not have to get good grades at school: they have their standardized exams (like the military etc...)

2) Now if one has the ambition of pursuing higher education in a competitive sector like law or med school then I'm afraid he should be motivated and perform well on the 1st attempt (or as I said graduate again hoping to obtain better grades).

3) If someone want to become a mechanic it's not a big deal if he graduated from high school failing history class... Most of the time people failing school are more oriented for manual jobs or for non-academic professional training.







Debate Round No. 2
jujubean

Pro

Yes, yes, I see some of your points. BUT, what you're saying is that it's okay to lack work ethic. But anywhere you go, any job you want, requires a work ethic. You are nothing without education. This country wasn't formed on druggies and criminals and stupid people, now was it!?! No. It was formed on God, and smart people. And if you failed a class, you would either take it again the following year along with that's years class that you have to pass, or you could be held back, depending on how many classes you fail. And it wouldn't be unfair to those who passed in one try, because then all of these people who fail, would just pass anyway, and be considered or counted as one of them, and they would get credit for passing, even though they failed. It also gives them false-confidence. If they are failing, but pass anyway, then they will think too highly of themselves, and just act like they are too good or too smart for the classes, and that will lead to them failing more, or dropping out. Also, everybody deserves a second chance, whether it's retaking a driving test, or retaking a class.
Oliark

Con

Your main argument is a slippery-slope argument. You are almost trying to show that failing a class will lead to the apocalypse.
By putting everyone in the same basket :

-students failing one class and the rest is ok
-students failing multiple classes
-students lacking motivation
-students who " will think too highly of themselves, and just act like they are too good or too smart for the classes"
- druggies and criminals and stupid people

The implicit message you send is that student failing a single class must be stupid, worthless individual. You also tend to use the "second chance" argument as a pretext to stigmatize school failure.
(You could have based your arguments in scientific literature about pedagogy quoting sources. Instead you gave your personal and biased analysis of the situation. So basically you failed to prove that the status quo should be changed)

Anyway here are my rebuttals...

1) Passing/Failing depends on the year programme results

If you have a dozen classes each year, failing one as long as you pass the rest is acceptable !
The reason is that passing or failing depends on the entire year programme. You can get your diploma failing a class but it will appear in your grades records (so you will NOT actually get credit for passing that class)

2) A class is generally not graded on a single exam

You say students need a second chance... except they already have it !
During the year they have continuous assessment + many examinations

3) There is no correlation between failing a class and lacking work ethic

First reason is that lack of motivation and "perceived stupidity" are due to the fact high school student are not always
mature enough yet. It is not pathological for a 14 or 16 years old to be immature. Making them repeat a single class with younger students is totally counterproductive and could even be a burden for younger students in that class.

N.B: In case of multiple classes failed, making them repeat the year will give them more time to become mature --> I agree with this, however this is not what we are debating !

4) Retake the year

As I said if you want better grades because of a specific personal objective, you are free to retake the year.

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Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by jujubean 2 years ago
jujubean
Yes. If a mechanic puts the wrong part on, then they take it off, and put the right one on. So if a student fails a class, then they should redo it. Taking the wrong part off and putting the right part on.
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
In the real world you do the thing right or do it over.If a mechanic puts a part on wrong, should they remove it and do it right?
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