The Instigator
Leonitus_Trujillo
Pro (for)
Winning
21 Points
The Contender
kinley_cutie
Con (against)
Losing
9 Points

If abortion becomes illegal , it should be charged as a capital offense.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/19/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,498 times Debate No: 701
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (5)
Votes (10)

 

Leonitus_Trujillo

Pro

Currently in the United States abortion is legal up to a certain point in the pregnancy.

Now abortion has been debated to heck should it be legal, should it be illegal. But I don't know how many times we've stepped back and thought what are we going to do if it is illegal about people who get abortions anyway, and that is debate is about. For the sake of this debate we are going to have to assume that abortion becomes illegal, and if that is hard for you , what you can do is take partial birth abortion in mind sense that was recently made illegal, But I don't want this to descend into is it right or wrong.

I believe that:

If abortion becomes illegal, it is because it takes the life of another human being. The name for the crime that is committed when one human being takes the life of another is called murder. In the United States Murder is a Capital offense and receives a capital punishment, the Death Penalty or Life in prison depending on the state you live in.
I'd go further and state that Abortion is illegal is not just murder, it is pre-meditated murder.
The law draws a distinction between murders that happen our of the moment, for example a heated argument ends in one person killing another. That is not pre-meditated. Pre-Meditated is when a person wants to kill his boss and spends a month fabricated the perfect way to kill him.. Thats pre-meditated.
And I argue that illegal abortion is pre-meditated murder. You don't just get mad one day and kill the child, you fabricate the specific way to terminate the child's life.

Therefore Abortion is pre-meditated Murder, it should be a capital offense and people who commit abortion should be subject to capital punishment depending on the outcome of the jury.
kinley_cutie

Con

First of all, science has proven that a fetus is not actually "alive" until after the first trimester, during which most abortions take place. Would your new law, since that's really what it would be, say that even if the fetus is not technically "alive" then it's murder? Since murder is killing a living person, it isn't murder to have an abortion in the first trimester, which I've stated is when most abortions take place.

Let's say a woman is raped. Does she have the responsibility to raise the child if she's pregnant? It wasn't her fault that some guy jumped her like that, so why should she have to pay for his actions? That's a case when abortion is a good thing.

Another example. The child has some disease that will result in it's near death and will most likely harm the mother. I don't know exactly certain diseases, but I know that there are some like that. If the child will end up dying before birth, and it will most likely harm the mother, should it be a death sentence to try and save at least the mother's life? If the baby is going to die, then why should the mother have to die with it? That's not logical.

So, you argument is a good one, and I personally don't agree with abortion, unless the reasons I've stated. Your idea has no room for exceptions like these. That is where I find your idea flawed. I would agree with you if it weren't for your lack of sympathy it seems for the victims of rape, and the mothers of babies who will end up dying and killing the mother with them.
Debate Round No. 1
Leonitus_Trujillo

Pro

Well I am not going to delve if abortion should be legal or illegal the premise of this argument is that abortion is illegal,and for those purpose for the sake of moving forwards lets limit ourselves then to partial birth abortions. That said The law has room for self defense, which is what abortion would be if we were trying to save the mothers life.

However if someone raped you, and you went out and killed that person later one you would still be brought into a criminal court. I think the same is true if someoen raped you and then you went out and killed the child. Infact I think that is worse because at least the peson committed the crime of rape, the child didn't do anything.

Raising a Child and having a child are two different things, if the law requires you to have the child then you must have the child, if you do not we're debating what crime you should get, and you do not provide any alternative punishments in your argument.

In our system people are tried by a jury of 12 of their peers, I think this jury is best suited to take the situation surrounding the abortion into consideration when they are trying the person. However my argument is that The prosecutor should bring up charges on pre-meditated murder.

If abortion is to be illegal, and certain abortions are illegal already; then we need a crime to punish that, and on the premise of why and abortion would be illegal in the first place its logical to try it as murder. The Law needs to be black and white emotions cant be taken into consideration. Luckily our law system gives room for the jury to be compassionate and we should leave emotions to them.
kinley_cutie

Con

I'm not saying that the person is going to go out and kill the man that raped them, but do you think that the woman should be forced to pay for the actions of the man? What if the mother doesn't have the finances to pay for herself in a hospital? What if she doesn't have the time off work she would need? Isn't she more important then the little fetus that really isn't even alive at the point when they would abort it? If she can't support herself while she's being forced to pay for the man's mistakes, where is the justice in that? There is none. America is about justice. The child doesn't even have a brain yet, so therefore, it has no idea when it's alive or when it's dead, and it, being not alive, feels no pain. It is a humane act as long as it's done within the first trimester, it's not murder.

You state that it's pre-meditated murder. I'm not arguing with any of that except the murder part. As I have stated before, the fetus is not alive during the time that it would normally be aborted, and since murder is killing a living thing, the Death Penalty would not be suitable. Killing someone for killing something that isn't even considered alive is the murderous act.

You said that the law systems give room for the jury to be compassionate. We don't have the evidence to support this, therefore, we have no idea as to whether or not the jury would be compassionate. They could all just hate abortion and say, "She's guilty because it's murder." even though it isn't, they would just be bringing personal feelings into the courtroom, making it stupid to even hold the session.

We don't need to punish abortion. It's not murder if it's done humanely and during the right time. After the first trimester, I agree with you completely. I just don't believe that those who decide to get abortions should be killed or stuck in prison for life. Being stuck in prison would be worse than dying in some cases, but that's another debate.

I still believe that I have won this debate because I clearly stated that your idea was flawed and that it's not necessary for the woman to be punished for doing something she feels she needs to do.
Debate Round No. 2
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by sethgecko13 9 years ago
sethgecko13
Even when abortion was illegal prior to Roe v. Wade - it was BARELY a felony - certainly not considered murder, let alone a capital offense.

Plus, it usually takes two people to cause a pregnancy - are you going to execute the man who impregnated the woman as an accomplice, or is this just going to be a sexist law that only applies to women?
Posted by obiwanp 9 years ago
obiwanp
I'm not sure the topic was properly addressed. If abortion is made illegal and becomes a capital offense, it would be counter productive and hypocritical to try the mother, or the doctor (who actually performs the operation) and seek the death penalty. The right to life argument would obviously become meaningless.

Its been stated that even the fetus has the right to life, so to punish someone who takes that life away by taking their life is absurd. Then the only possible sentence is jail time. This would then raise other problems, especially if the would be mother already had kids, some that depended on her.
Posted by kinley_cutie 9 years ago
kinley_cutie
I am not Pro-choice. I believe that abortion is wrong and I would never do it, I was just stating the reasons why some women do go through with it. I hopefully will never have to deal with the issue of abortion in my own life, though I won't agree to do it unless I feel that I should. I can see you are obviously Pro-Life...if that's the right name for it...
Posted by kinley_cutie 9 years ago
kinley_cutie
I was just debating for the sake of debating. I really do agree with your idea, other than the instances I stated, and I must say, you are a very good debater and you really know your stuff. I also will admit that I think you should win and that I gave you the first vote.
Posted by Leonitus_Trujillo 9 years ago
Leonitus_Trujillo
I think you failed to properly address the issue. The question was if abortion should become illegal what punishment are we going to give. You fail to offer any counter proposal in your argument and just focus on a premise that isn't even part of the debate. You attempted to make the issue about abortion itself and it really is about what are we going to do after the fact. To facilitate you i limited my argument to partial birth abortions because you seemed to obviously be pro-choice, but that didn't stop you from going outside of the question. Therefore I do not believe that you have won the debate your argument is based on trying to evoke an emotional response, when I refuted your first case example, you used it again which tells me that you wanted people to vote not on the black and white facts of the debate but on what can jolt their heart the most.
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Vote Placed by LandonWalsh 9 years ago
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