The Instigator
MikeGarcia
Pro (for)
Losing
12 Points
The Contender
mrmatt505
Con (against)
Winning
28 Points

If not for her husband, Hillary Clinton wouldn't be a prime contender for the Democratic nomination.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/12/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,901 times Debate No: 274
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (12)

 

MikeGarcia

Pro

Ahh, Hillary. Either you love her or you hate her. That's pretty much how it is, whether you be Democrat or Republican. Really, though, would she be so popular if it wasn't for the fact that she married Bill Clinton early on in life, and he happened to get elected as president twice?

I routinely hear her saying how she spent eight years in the White House with Bill, so she knows exactly how Washington runs. This may be true, but would that experience qualify Nancy Reagan and Laura Bush to run for president?

As for her senate seat in New York - even if she DID win that seat on her own merit (I argue, too, that she won that seat because of Bill), is she really qualified to run for president? This point also plays into the Obama factor, who only has 2 and a half years Senator experience, as opposed to Hillary's seven and half. To me, it seems as if the democrats this time around have chosen very inexperienced, unqualified candidates to be their front-runners. My argument, though, is about Hillary. If it wasn't for her husband, no one (except for her family and friends) would even know who Hillary Rodham Clinton is today. I mean, has she really done anything noteworthy to distinguish her from her other fellow Senators? Or is it the NAME that counts for the Democrats?
mrmatt505

Con

First, Bill wouldn't have been in office if it weren't for Hillary. Although Bill does have a way with the masses, Hillary has and would have driven up political clout without Bill. With the books that she has written about her past and her term as first lady, she has opened up to the people and has caught their attention. Furthermore, Bill has been hindering Hillary's political growth with all of the allegations set against him. Although few of them have been proven to be him, they still carry burden.

Furthermore, Hillary was a graduate of Yale University and majored in political science at Wellesly College before ever meeting up with Bill in Arkansas.

But let's go further back than her college career, although it may not seem like it effects todays realm of politics, Hillary was an active participant in Girl Scouts, Student Council, National Honors Society, and (my favorite) debate! She has had her own independent drive for politics that would have propelled her to the top with or without Bill.

And, during Bill's presidency, Hillary took her own initiatives to make changes in the United States by herself.

All of these facts leads to the underlying understanding that Hillary is a very determined woman who will fight for what she wants and if she wants to make it to the top, she will.
Debate Round No. 1
MikeGarcia

Pro

You start your argument claiming that Bill wouldn't have been in office if it weren't for Hillary. I don't quite know what you mean by this, as her husband was elected Governor of Arkansas for many years before the general public really knew who she was, but I'll let you make your own arguments and I'll refute them later.

You predicate your notion that Hillary would have still been famous without her husband Bill based on the fact that she has written books about her past and as her term as first lady. This argument relies on the fact that she was already famous. In short, people wouldn't have bought a book about Hillary Clinton's life if they didn't know who she already was.

You speak of Bill's allegations hindering her political growth. I argue, forget Bill! Hillary has a whole set of allegations of her own. Peter Paul, Norman Hsu... the list goes on and on. Hillary is hindering her own political growth by participating in such a vile, perverted form of politics. And as for Slick Willie... I would argue that one of the only reasons people want Hillary in the White House is so Bill could have another term! Whenever Hillary is attacked, Bill comes to her rescue. If he really has been hindering her political growth, she certainly doesn't know about it.

As for Yale and Wellesly, I can think of plenty of people I know who graduated from there, yet are not qualified to run the United States.

As for her previous career before college... all I have to say is that I, too, was in Boy Scouts, Student Council, NHS, and debate. Plenty of people graduate from high school with these credentials. Never have I seen any of these factors play a role in a presidential debate.

You argue that she's qualified because she took initiative in change during Bill's presidency. So did Nancy Reagan, with her "Just Say No" policy. I would argue that her approach was a bit more successful that Hillary's "universal healthcare express." However, proposing that Nancy Reagan run for president after Reagan left office would be preposterous.

The fact is, Hillary has done some great things in her life, but not so great that they distinguish her from any other person in her position. She is not fit to be the president of the United States.
mrmatt505

Con

First off, you have taken this debate away from what you started it is. You state that Hillary isn't qualified for this office but in your opening speech you just talk about how she wouldn't be so popular without Bill. Next, Hillary will (if she becomes president) make a much better one than the one that we currently have and equal if not better than the other candidates now. This whole set of arguments though are off topic.

Second, Hillary Clinton is one of those special women who has been able to do for herself what few women have done before. My argument on how Bill needed Hillary (which went virtually irrefuted) is stating that Hillary IS the backbone behind the Clinton family and is the engine that drove Bill to his presidency. Because of this, she is more than qualified to propell herself to the top and no, she does not necessarily NEED Bill for what she is doing ajd would be just as popular without him. And, Hillary's successes in highschool and college are not so unique as the initiative that she took with the opportunities that she left herself open to. Human beings have a natural tendency to be drawn towards things that they want to do and Hillary's interal drive has brought her to where she is today. I am sorry if you are disappointed with what you are doing with your life and I do hope that what you are doing is something that you do enjoy. If your occupation works for you then that is where you found your niche and Hillary found her own niche as well. On the other hand, we have had presidents in the past who didn't even have a college degree and they were well qualified. I believe that the position of president is one that doesn't come from knowledge which is obtained from school, but rather it comes from wisdom which one can get through experience and common sense.

Third, Hillary has proven with the books she has written and the things she has done that she can independently take the initiative to accomplish great things.
Debate Round No. 2
MikeGarcia

Pro

MikeGarcia forfeited this round.
mrmatt505

Con

Let's go Hillary! She idn't need Bill to get to where she is today and because this round was forfeited, this is what is true based on the parameters of this debate.
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by mrmatt505 9 years ago
mrmatt505
I think I said it in my 1st con set of arguments.
Posted by TeaandScarves 9 years ago
TeaandScarves
I don't know if this was said anywhere, but I actually think Hilary would be a lot better off had she not married Bill. She wouldn't have all of the history she does now, plus she would be more credible instead of just "Bill's wife".
Posted by Lysis17 9 years ago
Lysis17
I agree. The con should win because the pro forfeited. I would have voted for the con anyway though because he made a better argument.
Posted by MitsyPoodle 9 years ago
MitsyPoodle
If someone forfeits a round, that means they lost. I voted for the con primarily because the pro didn't respond.
Posted by Lysis17 9 years ago
Lysis17
OK I just checked around on other debates going on and several people use the expression about "agreeing" with one of the opponents. In fact there is one on one of Garcia's other debates. I don't see what the big deal is.
Posted by verbivore 9 years ago
verbivore
Thank you Lysis. On another note, sometimes people do judge based on their biases. Especially lay judges. I've seen it happen at debate quite often. Not necessarily fair but it does exist. AND by saying that I agree with him could also mean that I like his argument. OK, how ironic...now we are debating!
Posted by Lysis17 9 years ago
Lysis17
I didn't see any rules stating that we couldn't state opinions...in fact this sectioin is for adding comments. Just because I "agree" with what he's saying doesn't necessarily mean that I am stating that his argument is better. I believe that I understand the difference btw commenting and judging and will take that into consideration when it is actually time to vote!
Posted by MikeGarcia 9 years ago
MikeGarcia
This site really isn't about who you agree with, though. It's about who presented a better argument.
Posted by verbivore 9 years ago
verbivore
correction: America wasn't quite ready for such a strong, independent "female" politician.
Posted by verbivore 9 years ago
verbivore
I have to agree w/ Mrmatt on this one. Hilary would have made it to the top anyway. When she was younger America wasn't quite ready. I wish she would write a sequel to her great book "It Takes A Village" title it "It Takes A Woman" and dedicate it to dear old Bill. I'm not really fond of him but I will say the smartest thing he ever did was marry her.
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