If there were a civil war between conservative and liberal states, who would win?
Debate Rounds (3)
say why you think that liberal states would win.
I have some questions I would like to ask.
- Is it total war?
- Are all citizens in a state converted to what the majority is?
- How far into detail shall we go?
- Are we using Stereotypes?
- Who is rebelling?
- Will the current USD be used?
I am requesting the answers and your first argument in the second stage.
I accept the debate.
Good luck! :)
-No there are rebel groups, these groups are most prominent in liberal states because 1. conservatives usually have more of a means to rebel i.e. guns, oath keepers, the majority of people who vote for liberal candidates live in or around the city
- no but we will be using generalizations
-conservatives from current government
-sure, why not?
On the side note, the states that elected republican in the 2012 elections will be the conservative sates and the states that elected democrat will be the liberal states, with the exception of Florida. They are surrounded on all sides by conservative states, they would most likely side with the conservative states out of self preservation, but this would mean that they have a higher number of rebels because of it.
I believe that the conservative states would win in a civil war against the liberal states for the following reasons: better well armed population, more oil reserves, overwhelming majority of the armed forces siding with the conservatives, overwhelming majority of veteran soldiers and retired police officers siding with the conservatives, generally harder workers, better economics ( that just goes without saying), an ever increasing population due to conservative policy, the majority of military bases are located in conservative states( did not enough time to look up), and an increasing number of manufacturing plants( especially auto manufacturers) and conservatives are more likely to go and fight then their liberal counter parts. Just as a generalization.
It is a very well known fact that gun owners tend to lean more conservative. If liberal states were ever to occupy a region of the conservative side, or simply the conservative populace living in a liberal state, the populace would have a very likely chance of being able to revolt against the liberal armies. Next, if gun owners chose to join with the conservative army, they will already have prior knowledge of how to operate firearms and be more accustomed to operating firearms compared to their liberal army counterparts. (1)
Of the top 6 oil producing states in the U.S. , 5 of them in this war are conservative states. The conservative abundance of oil over the liberal states will be a major factor in deciding the victors of this war. Don't bother trying to say that the liberal states will suddenly switch to greener energy in the middle of the war, that would be ludicrous. (2)
Majority of military siding with the conservatives-
If the US military personnel had to make a choice between liberal states or conservative states, they would overwhelmingly decide to join with the conservative states. Now, the conservative has experience and very well trained troops to fight on behalf of there armies. (3)
Generally harder workers-
There really are no polls for this on the web, but I can tell you from living with farmers, carpenters, and construction workers that they generally lean towards conservative politics. This will be ideal when having to build an infrastructure and defensive lines to fend off against liberal forces. I am not saying that liberals work less then conservatives, however, considering that people receiving welfare or are college students that have never worked a day in their lives generally vote liberal, that may say something about the liberal base.
An increasing population-
Liberal states will be implementing liberal polices to govern their lives, so the same will go for the conservatives.
Conservative polices: hetero sexual marriage Liberal polices: homo sexual marriage
no abortion pro abortion
Needless to say that the conservative stances will bring forth a larger population
Increasing amount of manufacturing in the south-
As wages in other nations across the world increase, many corporations are now looking to send plants back to the states, specifically to southern America, were the average wages are somewhat lower compared to the rest of the nation. This will provide a strong industrial base for the conservatives in fighting this war, as the liberal state industry only declines. (4)
Considering its heavily Liberal. Plus the fact it is Total War. The Navy down there would likely leave, taking supplies and destroying the military installations before surrendering the State. Along with the large Liberals, and the combination of weapons down there would make it difficult to hold. If they can, they can blockade themselves in Florida, since they control the Seas they can receive supplies from the Ocean, if they are over whelmed, they would likely destroy the military installations.
Since the pipeline runs through the North, it would be intercepted. Along with the Navy from Hawaii to Intercept any ships. It would likely be taken early one due to its oil, and inability to receive reinforcements. It would likely surrender.
-Currency / Money-
Liberals are willing to pay more taxes then Conservatives. Conservatives support lowering taxes. Since the pro-abortion and pro-welfare if the Liberal States, the Middle class would grow, causing an increase of economy. Along with manufacturing, it would boost thanks to the current on going war. The North still has a larger Industry then the South, without the Iron mines from states like Minnesota, it would be harder to build such Factories.
I doubt the war would last this long, considering it takes 18 years for a generation of children to reach formal adulthood. Armed groups would be countered with restricted access to weapons and ammo, also police force. Saying that Conservatives are harder workers is a bit biased, Since Liberals are more likely to work as a community to produce goods.
- Border States -
Border states don't have much resources, and low defenses. Most of the resources come from the Midwest, which is under said Liberal Control, the South would need to divert much needed resources to defend these states from attack.
- Midwest -
The biggest supplier of Food, Auto Industry , and fresh water reserves. Water is needed in dry states, like Texas. It would be a large advantage.
- Foreign Relations -
Considering Liberals are more involved in Politics, and seek peace more then Conservatives. The Liberals would likely be allies with Canada, France, Britain, and possibly Mexico. Not to mention that the Liberals have complete control of the Sea, preventing trade to the South. ( Florida and Hawaii Navy )
- Oil Production -
North Dakota ranks 2nd, and its increasing in oil production. California ranks 3rd, while Alaska ranks 4th.
That is enough for this turn
The state of Florida is predominately liberal in it's southern region i.e. Miami. As for the northern and central regions of Florida, they are generally more conservative. A war in Florida would be almost entirely fought in or around Miami. The conservative majority in the north and central Florida would likely support the conservative forces, some might even join their army. As for the massive naval base positioned in Florida, this would not benefit the liberal states in anyway what so ever. The Naval base in Florida is alone in it's position surrounded by conservative naval bases in: Georgia, South Carolina, Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, and Texas. I received this information from your very own sources. Any attempt on behalf of the liberal navy positioned in Florida to escape would result in either out right scuttle, or total annihilation at the hands of the conservative navy. Either of these scenarios would both raise moral for the conservative forces and severely damage the liberal states naval operations in the Atlantic/Gulf region.
You got me there. :)
First off, raising taxes, believe it or not, does not create a stronger and larger middle class. The middle class of today is shrinking from the ever increasing bureaucracy of over taxation. I don't know if you have heard many conversations on the streets lately, but i'm not hearing to many say " Gee, I have so much money I think the government should tax me even more!" so far, I have heard " I can barley make ends meet before my check gets taxed, how am I going to pay my bills after?" By taxing the middle class more then what they already are, you will be severely hurting your working population and in turn, severely hurt your economy. Yes it is true that we conservatives do not like taxes, however, we do not mind paying a little extra if it is for our defense budget. I am not quite sure what you meant by quote " Since the pro-abortion and pro-welfare if the liberal states." I am assuming it was a typo, but no problem just clear it up in the next round. As for industry and manufacturing, again your own sources have betrayed you. Of the top five states with the highest GSP ( gross state product) based on manufacturing, 3 of the 5 are conservative states. Of the top 5 five states with the lowest GSP based on manufacturing, 4 of the 5 are liberal. Your own sources show that conservative states have a higher count of manufacturing capabilities
I agree that in the case of a civil war of this nature that it would not last that long. However, in the case of prolonged war, the conservative states would be more capable of producing an increasing population compared to the liberal states. Sorry if I did not make that clear. Second, this is all out war. Many people living in the rural areas of every state already own firearms as well as ammo to supply these weapons. Any law passed by the liberal state or federal government would already be to late since the rural areas are already armed. If the police force attempted to disarm these people, expect lots and lots of dead police. Biased, yes! Honest, defiantly! To say that liberals would be more willing to work as a community to produce goods then conservatives is in it self a bit biased. I believe that conservatives would likely join as a community as well to produce goods just as I am sure that liberals would do the same.
-Border States & Midwest-
By border states be specific. I am assuming that you mean the Mexican border states. In which case, you are quite mistaken. There are numerous resources to be found in these states ranging from fossil fuels, to gemstones, to precious metals. Also, there are 4 states bordering Mexico. Of these 4, 2 of them are liberal states. You have just as many border states as we do. To your comments regarding the Midwest. Yes, most of the resources to come out of our great nation come out of the Midwest. This does not bode well in your favor. There are 13 states in the Midwest, and of these 13, 7 of them are conservative. You control under half of the Midwest.
- Foreign Relations-
You personally said quote " Considering Liberals are more involved in Politics, and seek peace more then Conservatives. The Liberals would likely be allies with Canada, France, Britain, and possibly Mexico. Not to mention that Liberals have complete control of the Sea, preventing trade to the South. (Florida and Hawaii Navy) " First off we debunked Florida's Naval superiority, trade would be quite steady in the south and naval superiority in the Atlantic would most likely fall in conservative favor. As for the Pacific, you are correct, the liberals would have control. To your statement that liberals seek peace more then conservatives, you are correct. How exactly would this help you!? You are waging a civil war and you are not looking to back down ( for once) How would your policy of peace help you bring allies into a war. Do you really think that the UK is simply going to get into a war war with 1/2 of the US because some supposedly peaceful liberals are asking them to join their war. Ask the same for France, Canada, and Mexico. Will they join one half to fight the other? In all likely hood, this is going to be a war isolated between between the liberals and conservatives.
Once again your sources betrayed you. I was wrong in saying that 5 of the 6 top oil producing states were conservative. Instead you were correct in stating that 7 of the top 10 oil producing states are conservative. You did not state this with your words rather with your own sources. We now have an even larger advantage over you.
I have would also suggest that you look back at your own sources
No point typing it all out, when it is mostly here.
- Population -
If you consider all the Conservatives farmers up in the North, what about the cities in the south? They would be over whelmed by Liberals.
Here is a city for example in Texas, 5 Air craft bases, 2 National guard armories
Not only that, Liberals would protest, closing down Factories and Ports, if you shoot them it is used as propaganda agaisnt you, expanding their cause, and gives them a reason to steal weapons as well and fight back. Same up North, if a person shoots a Cop, it gives them the excuse to wear ballistic armor and carry M4s.
Also considering people in Conservative States can use the guns there against them.
- Arizona -
California is directly linked to Arizona, and any smart General would take that as soon as the war begins. Considering CA alone has over 30 military bases, it should be a breeze.
- Foreign Policy -
No one would like a conservative State around, due to how aggressive they are, they would likely give the Liberals funding, supplies, and if things go bad, soldiers. The world doesn't need a new War-hawk. The Conservatives would be unlikely to trade with anyone, as the Liberals would likely ask for embargoes.
- Naval superiority -
Texas has ZERO war ships. Florida has 17, Virginia has 64. California has 60, and Hawaii has 28. The Liberals have complete control of the Sea. This also allows no Trade to the South States, and allows to deploy troops anyway on the coast.
May I remind you that the Midwest is completely scattered? C forces would have a trouble holding Arizona from California, making sure Florida doesn't start to invade upwards, while the Liberal Army completely surrounds the South, and with a much higher population , is able to recruit many more soldiers ( Alone, California has over 30 Military Bases. ) which would make taking the flat lands of the Midwest easy. I would doubt they would even join the Conservative forces to start with, due to the fact they are completely surrounded as well.
- Economy -
As I blow away your claim of Naval superiority to the Atlantic, I also blow away a very large part of what would of been a economy, cutting the South off from the outside world.
- Natural Disasters -
During Hurricane season, flooding, or any form of emergency situation, the south would be at a major disadvantage, with much less funding and people to assist these regions, they would be forced to abandon them.
I think that's enough for one slide.
- http://militarybases.com... I am including Naval Bases, as well as other military installations.
- http://www.cdfa.ca.gov... California makes 15% world wide food production, and 7.1% world wide livestock.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by bubbatheclown 2 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Con gets conduct because Pro makes the assertion that all conservatives are harder workers than Liberals. Con also gets arguments. You see, the armed population and many soldiers (including veterans) would most likely side with the conservatives, but the Federal Government would likely side with the Liberals, and they are much better armed. Plus, a UN Coalition landing in the US to fight against the Conservatives would most definitely doom the Conservative side. Sources, Spelling and Grammar were about equal.
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