The Instigator
Jaxsor
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Furyan5
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

If we lived in a virtual reality (like the Matrix), should we fight to be free of it

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/17/2015 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 518 times Debate No: 73631
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

Jaxsor

Pro

I believe that we humans, as a species, have always had to ensure survival by bettering ourselves. If we didn't, we would still be living in caves, hunting with spears crafted out of sticks, fighting to survive. However, we adapted, and we bettered ourselves to guarantee our own survival. We continued to better ourselves throughout history, and have made it to where we are today, the digital age. If we were to accept a virtual reality, it would run counter to our past, and our nature to adapt. We would be letting all that go for the sake of our own enjoyment. In the Matrix, the Matrix is a method of control and domination, and to accept being a slave would run against all the advancements we have made, our ability to adapt and survive. We would be accepting defeat.

But even if the machines had created the Matrix for us to live in a better world, or we had created it, I'd still be opposed to it. Like I said, I believe that our ability to advance our species so far from where we began is what defines us, and if we let go of that, then we let go of everything that has been built up for us just so that we can enjoy ourselves. With that mentality, what would happen to future generations? What would they do with the world we would inevitably neglect by living in a simulation? Would they try to live in it, and make it live again? Or would they give up, and join us in this better world, the simulation, and continue this neglect? I imagine that many people would give up on the real world, with an "ignorance is bliss" mentality, until we neglected everything so badly that our population would be badly crippled, and maybe even lead to extinction. And even if we didn't go extinct, the remaining humans would be back at humanity's square one after centuries of neglect, and we would be back to the Stone Age.

This is the opt-in round for anyone interested in debating this. Just a philosophical debate on this subject, no evidence needed to back up your opinion. Felt like doing this in light of the fact that I recently watched the Matrix, and loved it.
Furyan5

Con

I'm reminded of the saying, "If it looks like shyt, smells like shyt, feels like shyt and tastes like shyt, its probably shyt"

There would be no perceptual difference between the reality we perceive today and one we perceive in a virtual reality. We could still do all the things we want to do. Scientists could still develope new things to better our lives. Artists could still paint. Writers could still write. Would a story written by a writer in a virtual reality have less value than a writer in the real world? Who knows???? Perhaps virtual reality is the next stage in human evolution. And fighting it would simply be us resisting change and trying to cling to the past.

Ask yourself what makes us humans.... is it climbing mountains? Swimming in oceans? Eating and drinking? babboons climb mountains. Fish swim. All animals eat and drink. Only 3 things put us apart from animals. Human interaction, art and contemplation. In a virtual reality the mountain climbing and ocean swimming wouldn't be real....but the human interaction, art and anything we contemplate would.

I would therefore be content living in a virtual reality.

Ps.....would whoever controls this simulation please make my next girlfriend blonde, blue eyed with d-cups and a mute lol
Debate Round No. 1
Jaxsor

Pro

Thanks for accepting my debate. First time at this, so let's go.

You say that there would be no perceptual difference, and therefore that makes it okay. But you did not address my point of what would inevitably happen to this planet if we just let ourselves live in an artificial world. What would happen to the Earth if we neglected it in favor of virtual reality? As I said, the next generation would probably not be so eager to pick up the mess that would be left when the previous generation decided to live in a dream world. They would likely end up joining into this virtual world, with the mentality that they could live a better life inside it. This mentality would also likely be the next generation's as well. They would be born into a neglected world, with the conditions worsening, and then many of them would want to forget about the real, crumbling one, to live in a better one.

As conditions worsened and worsened, more generations would make this same decision, and then eventually our willful neglect would catch up to us. We might even face extinction, depending on if the virtual world could be maintained in the wasteland that would likely be the product of our neglect. If that were true, people would still go into this virtual reality, unwilling to rebuild everything, to be back in the Stone Age if they could live in a better world immediately. If the virtual world did fail, we would be forced, as a species, to start over. If we could get those people out, we might be able to start over, but if the people in the dream world couldn't be freed, then the very few who might live outside of it would be hard pressed to rebuild anything. We would face extinction. None of these outcomes are very good for us as a species.

Looking forward to seeing your rebuttal to my arguments above, and again, thanks for accepting my debate!
Furyan5

Con

Apologies. I misunderstood your question. Still pretty new at this too. When you said fight to be free of it i assumed we were not there by choice. I'm curious where these kids would come from if we were in a virtual reality but that's irrelevant. There would be definate atvantages for people with disabilities. A blind person could see. A legless person could climb mountains. Etc but I'm pretty sure not everyone would choose to stay there. They could look after the planet and visit V.R on weekends. And if nobody wanted to live in the real reality I'm pretty sure we could build machines capable of doing so. Either way there would be no need to fight to be free of V.R.
Debate Round No. 2
Jaxsor

Pro

I agree, if people can be mindful of the VR use, and keep it to certain times of use, it could be a good thing. However, who's to say that people can resist the temptation of a world that could be better. It kind of depends on what the VR can do as well. If it is meant to simulate an only slightly better world, it would be easy to self-regulate its use. However, if the virtual world was a near perfect place, would it be so easy to resist letting it become our life? There are many variables to this one, indeed there are. However, the way my generation is, with plenty of entitled, spoiled brats, and children in teenage bodies that weren't raised right to go around, I'm not so sure they would want to leave a world where they can live a better life than their own. It really depends on the person, but the direction things seem to be going, reality would be a thing of the past to people like them. While it could be beneficial for disabled people, as you said, who's to say that it will not be abused by the rest of humanity? Of course, I can't know this for sure, but with the entitled brats of this generation, I would guess that if there was a better virtual world, they'd probably wouldn't skimp on the chance to escape their own shortcomings. Ergo, it would lead to exactly what I have spoken about with their complete neglect of reality.
Furyan5

Con

Well I agree that if we could live in a virtual world that is better than our reality, we would. that's why we on this site. In my real world I have nobody in my real world who understands the concepts I like discussing. But that is not the question we debating. Your question is "Should we fight to be free of it" Fight implies a desire to do or want something but not having the ability to do it. If we want to live in the virtual reality we wont fight not to. You might as well ask a smoker if he should fight to ban cigarettes.
Debate Round No. 3
Jaxsor

Pro

I'm sorry for the word choice in my original question, I was thinking of the premise of the Matrix at first, where VR is a means of control. I might as well address that too, as that would be a bad thing for humanity as well. If we were put into a virtual reality to supply power to machines like in the Matrix, would we fight back? I believe some people would, and should. If we were put into virtual reality as a means of control, then we should fight back, because being the slaves of others, no matter what, is not what we live for. We are not here in this world to be someone else's slave. Some say that "ignorance is bliss" when it comes to this, like Cypher in the Matrix. He wanted to be reinserted into the Matrix, he was content with being a slave as long as he didn't know it. However, this really goes against our path of evolution, the path that has been carved to get us to where we are today. If we were enslaved and put into VR, then that would be counter to everything we've built up. Yet some would not fight back, because "ignorance is bliss." Where do you stand on being enslaved and put into VR?

In short, not a whole lot of outcomes seem like they'd be desirable. The only ones that seem to be also seem to hinge on self-control, something I believe this generation is very hard-pressed to learn. Being slaves would be far from good, and neglecting this world would send us back to the Stone Age. The only real way to avoid VR being a bad thing is to regulate ourselves, and if we ever make VR, I just hope that we are capable of controlling ourselves. Thank you for debating me, it's been a good debate. And I apologize if I sound a bit jaded for a 15-year old, it's just how I am.

(Yeah, it's closing statement time.)
Furyan5

Con

Don't apologise for who you are. We all start somewhere. Its where we going that's important and honestly I'm impressed. You have a open mind. As for living in slavery, we already do. The method of slavery is the world monetary system and many are content to live under its rule. But that's an argument for another day.

As for your question, would I remain in the system or fight????

I believe I already stated my case in my first argument. As long as human existance wasn't in peril i'd be content to remain in the system. Thanks for a interesting debate and best wishes for the future.
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Poe-vahkiin 2 years ago
Poe-vahkiin
I would bend the Matrix to have an awesome virtual life, not one where I live in constant fear.
Posted by Furyan5 2 years ago
Furyan5
It would depend on the reason we are living in this virtual reality. If, for instance, the earth could no longer sustain life for whatever reason and the survival of the species depended on living in a virtual environment.
Posted by Forthelulz 2 years ago
Forthelulz
What? I love the Tang!
No votes have been placed for this debate.