The Instigator
Shakespeare
Pro (for)
Losing
8 Points
The Contender
Itsallovernow
Con (against)
Winning
19 Points

Ignorance is bliss.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/11/2010 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 6,617 times Debate No: 11158
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (4)

 

Shakespeare

Pro

Ignorance is bliss.

If one does not know heartbreak, their heart will remain unbroken.
Itsallovernow

Con

Thank you, Pro, for the debate.

I negate the resolution: "Ignorance is bliss."

Definition(s):
Bliss- state of extreme happiness

(wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn)

=Observations=

1. Being nonignorant of something does't nessicarily mean that it automaticall has a negative effect on a person.
2. Ignorance is total unawareness of a subject, idea, etc.

=Rebuttal(s)=

1. My opponent's only contention, much to my personal humor, seems to be: "If one does not know heartbreak their heart will remain unbroken." He/she seems to believe that this only pertains to love, and that his one contention is unequivically appurtenent to his standing of the resolution. I must disagree.

I'll use the Twilight saga as my example. In the books, apparently, Edward gives Bella the boot on the basis that he doesn't want to hurt her. What if she had bought into that? What if she decided to be ignorant, unknowing or willing to explore other methods in which they could be together? Then she would be heartbroken and, hopefully, her character would have jumped off a bridge and killed herself (I don't wish this upon the actor herself, just the role she plays.)

In his case, ignorance is not bliss. However, this is only 1 situation pertaining to love. What about others?
__________
<---==/Contentions\==--->
-----------------

1. If our country had decided to shut the rest of the world out to live within itself to maintain bliss, then other countries would seek to take over. This is much like the Indians vs. the Settlers of this country. It's not exactly, but similar. For the record, the peace-loving Indians lost, obviously.

2. Going to a more base level, if a person decided to be ignorant of a situation, he or she would have no idea what good might come out of a situation. In this ignorance, the person cannot achieve true bliss, or a state of extreme happiness, since nothing would happen to them as a result of their decision. Even then, remaining ignorant of a subject could come to haunt you, like the roadways when they're bad. If I chose not to watch the news about what roads are bad, then I could crash. If I didn't know there would be a twister (tornado) later today and I decided to go camping, that would be very detrimetal to my health if it hit near me.

For these reasons I heavily urge you to

=VOTE CON=
Debate Round No. 1
Shakespeare

Pro

Itsallovernow, we meet again.

If Bella had never met Edward/ if she was ignorant of his existence, she would not experience or be aware of the pain and heartbreak of his 'peek-a-booing' in and out of her life. Plus, you can ask any Twilight fan how blissful Bella was as she fought to win Edward's heart and they will tell you, "not so much." They can then proceed to describe to you their anguish during those dark days of Bella's life.

I doubt your Twilight expertise.

I never proposed that there is bliss in a solitary country or people.

You said that:
1. "if a person decided to be ignorant of a situation, he or she would have no idea what good might come out of a situation."

First of all, a person cannot "decide" to be completely ignorant of a situation. You are negating your own definition of 'ignorance' ("total unawareness of a subject, idea, etc.)" by saying that ignorance is a decision.

Ex) Bella could not say "Oh, I will not fall in love with this guy, Edward Cullen. Using your definition, she would be totally unaware of this vampire-man-guy and all his dashing good looks.

Second of all...Exactly. He or she would have no idea what good might come out of the situation, thus never being in want of what that good would be (or in fear of what bad would come of it).

You are quite blissful cruising down the highway, or making smores on your camping trip until knowingness in the form of car crash or a tornado imposes reality upon you. But otherwise, the only circumstance where you would be unhappy, would be when you worrying about the oncoming black ice or twister that you KNOW could be a prospective threat.

I love You.
Itsallovernow

Con

Hello, Shakespeare.

In response to your first paragraph:

Your defense is that Bella was unhappy with the struggle she had to endure to win Edward's heart. From my understandig, and correct me if I'm wrong, Bella was so unhappy at being at Forks that she wanted to cry. She dreaded going to school, talking to people, etc. because she was ignorant of their reactions.

She braved the storm and went to school, meeting new friends, ones that she wouldn't have met if she didn't. She also met the love of her life. Life holds struggle, both for the ignorent and intellectual. If she would have remained ignorant, she would have struggled with Forks. If she didn't, she would have never have had the fairytale ending with a love that defied death itself. I believe she said herself that Edward was all that mattered to her. If that's true, then ignorance of him could not have been bliss, for she would've been miserable if she hadn't met him and/or she remained ignorant of his existance.

("Twilight expertise"? No, but I've heard enough of it. If I am wrong on anything, let me know.)

=Rebuttals=

1. You say: "First of all, a person cannot "decide" to be completely ignorant of a situation. You are negating your own definition of 'ignorance' ("total unawareness of a subject, idea, etc.)" by saying that ignorance is a decision."

If you noticed, I listed that not as a definition, but an observation. I didn't realize that word choice would selection would have been so technical on a personal observation (I could understand on a definition.). I won't concede this, but I will clarify it (as such is the way of making observations more precise). Instead of "...of a subject, idea, etc." I will extend that this does not mean ignorance of the subject itself, but it's content. If you look at it more closely, you can see it could techically be inferred both ways, which I did not notice before.

2. You say: Second of all...Exactly. He or she would have no idea what good might come out of the situation, thus never being in want of what that good would be (or in fear of what bad would come of it)."

This was in referance to Twilight also. If she didn't chase after Edward (metaphorically speaking), then she would've remained miserable. If a person remains ignorant of EVERYTHING, they cannot achieve "extreme happiness", the definition of bliss. Also, I don't understand why you made a point for something that you claimed was false. That seems awfully self-contradictory.

3. You say: "You are quite blissful cruising down the highway, or making smores on your camping trip until knowingness in the form of car crash or a tornado imposes reality upon you. But otherwise, the only circumstance where you would be unhappy, would be when you worrying about the oncoming black ice or twister that you KNOW could be a prospective threat."

You are assuming knowledge brings dread, and ignorance always brings happiness. What if you remained ignorant of a deer that darted in the middle of the road and you crashed into it, gashing your leg? This wouldn't bring happiness. Ignorance does not grant immunity to life's fiasco's. Sometimes, it can cause injury or death. What if you were ignorant of saftey warnings, or the news when you drove one of those faulty Ford cars? Knowledge may not always bring bliss, but it is generally more benifical than ignorance, and could save your life or prevent injury.

For example, the tornado that you gave in your example. If I was ignorant of the tornado, I would not be ignorant of it's destruction or injuries to myself or loved ones I might be with. The tornado itself would still exist. If I was aware that it would be there (via news, etc.), then I would be VERY, VERY happy I didn't go camping.

Good luck.
Debate Round No. 2
Shakespeare

Pro

I am trying to go along with it, but I am quite discontented by how you turned this into a debate about ugh...Twilight. Every time you turn a page, Bella breaks a nail.

"Your defense is that Bella was unhappy with the struggle she had to endure to win Edward's heart."

That is only one of my defenses. I have an incredibly strong immune system from drinking gallons of Florida orange juice, daily.

You say: "She dreaded going to school, talking to people, etc. because she was ignorant of their reactions."
I say: What?

It is true that Bella was unhappy in Forks, but now she had the added burden of stressing out over Edward. If I do remember correctly, Bella's knowing Edward almost led to her own death, numerous times. I would not call it a "fairytale ending." For goodness sakes, the poor girl could not even celebrate her own birthday without getting extremely anxious and depressed over the guy.

Observation, definition, whatever.

You say: "If a person remains ignorant of EVERYTHING, they cannot achieve "extreme happiness", the definition of bliss."

First, I ask why. Then, I say: If a person is ignorant of EVERYTHING, that includes good and bad things. It all comes down to this: People are born happy, but as they learn about the devastations of life, they adopt a certain melancholy that comes with knowing life's struggles. There are no babies on anti-depression pills.

I am not saying that ignorance is reality. It may cause a false sense of bliss, but bliss, none-the-less. As I said before, knowledge imposes itself upon the ignorant in the form of reality, whether that be darting deer, or tornadoes that exist, removing them from their happy-place and making them unhappy.

Toyota.

Itsallovernow: "You are assuming ignorance always brings happiness."

No, actually, I'm not. Ignorance does not bring happiness. It leaves you with the happiness that, as a human, you were born with, and leaves you without unhappinesses because you do not know about them.

Happy Valentine's Day, Babe!
Itsallovernow

Con

"People are born happy."

That is not true. Aside from the fact they come out screaming, crying, and covered with blood, they do not have the mental capacity to identify emotions, so they do not know which emotions they feel. Considering they are the only ones who know, and they can not speak, there is no telling if they can feel any sort of bliss. So, this point is moot.

"That is only one of my defenses. I have an incredibly strong immune system from drinking gallons of Florida orange juice, daily."
To this, I can only say that I too enjoy the exotic flavors of oranges, especially when they pertain to the form of juice.

You had a question concerning my statement that " (Bella) dreaded going to school, talking to people, etc. because she was ignorant of their reactions." Which is to say, she didn't know how they would react.

"It is true that Bella was unhappy in Forks, but now she had the added burden of stressing out over Edward. If I do remember correctly, Bella's knowing Edward almost led to her own death, numerous times." Some would agree with me when I ask, "What is more blissful than death?" In my belief, that is true peace and happiness (I am Christian). However, this was not the case.

Bella did have the "burdon" of stressing over Edward, but in the end she found true bliss. The intelligent path to this bliss is almost never easy. She achieved optimal happiness by doing so and she reaped the great rewards of it. (On a side note, I hate the Twilight saga with every fiber of my being, especially all of the generic spin-offs.)

" I would not call it a "fairytale ending." For goodness sakes, the poor girl could not even celebrate her own birthday without getting extremely anxious and depressed over the guy." Now, she can celebrate and infinite amount of birthdays with Edward. At least for the next 4 billion years when our sun explodes. I wonder if they will die in a firey explosion (quite possible), or if they will be crushed by an infinitely dense black hole? (The song Black Hole Sun by Alice In Chains is a good song, though this is irrelivant to my case.)

"Observation, definition, whatever." It would seem that you concede this point.

You asked why a person can not achieve extreme happiness when ignorant. If a person is ignorant, true ignorant, they would have to be mentally incapable of thinking. Life will always have unhappinesses.

"They adopt a certain melancholy that comes with knowing life's struggles. There are no babies on anti-depression pills."
I have not seen people sad because they are alive to live life. Actually, I've seen people quite glad about the fact, and I've not yet seen the ones you describe. The babies comment can be refered to the point I made earlier in this round.

"I am not saying that ignorance is reality. It may cause a false sense of bliss, but bliss, none-the-less. As I said before, knowledge imposes itself upon the ignorant in the form of reality."
Then reality will impose upon ignorance with knowledge, always. Thus, it ruins ignorance (and then that proves there are no ignorant people in the world {ever} to base your claims upon).

"Ignorance does not bring happiness. It leaves you with the happiness that, as a human, you were born with, and leaves you without unhappinesses because you do not know about them."
As I've proven, people can not be born in a state of extreme happiness (bliss).

=VOTE CON=

(And a belated Happy Valentine's Day to you, too, Sweetheart!)
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Rockylightning 7 years ago
Rockylightning
I don't get why pro keeps saying to con that [she?] loves [him?]
i d k
i have no idea
NICE DEBATE THOUGH!
Posted by Itsallovernow 7 years ago
Itsallovernow
Ignorance can cause death/injury, but not always. I was hoping you wouldn't bring up the fact that to ignorant of something has just as much chance to be benifical as it is negative. Death, according to my religion can happy.

Lol, I like to be spontanious and sparrotic! =)
Posted by Kenostic 7 years ago
Kenostic
Hehe, sorry but i had to cast my vote to itsallovernow for a couple of reasons. 1. i am sooooo glad that he seems to hate twilight (probably the worst book i have seen in a very long time) and 2. I'm not really sure but i like the way his/ her words sound
Posted by Shakespeare 7 years ago
Shakespeare
James, darling, first you say that ignorance is not bliss because it causes danger or death. Then you say that to be dead is to be happy. You, my dear are as inconstant as the wind.
Posted by Shakespeare 7 years ago
Shakespeare
Thank you.
Posted by infam0us 7 years ago
infam0us
pro is a major LOL. this has been an entertaining debate so far, good topic instigator.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Itsallovernow 6 years ago
Itsallovernow
ShakespeareItsallovernowTied
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Vote Placed by Rockylightning 6 years ago
Rockylightning
ShakespeareItsallovernowTied
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Vote Placed by Kenostic 7 years ago
Kenostic
ShakespeareItsallovernowTied
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Vote Placed by Shakespeare 7 years ago
Shakespeare
ShakespeareItsallovernowTied
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