The Instigator
Knight
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
DeFool
Pro (for)
Winning
10 Points

Illegal Immigrants

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
DeFool
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/6/2013 Category: Economics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,556 times Debate No: 36431
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (3)

 

Knight

Con

As an born bred American Citizen I believe that allowing illegal immigrants into our country then giving them citizenship just like that is beyond wrong especially for those who are currently do the process right so that they may become a legal citizen of the United States. Now I don't want to hate on the Illegal Immigrants due to the fact that being human we strive to live better lives and most of us knowing that the U.S.A even in it's current condition is still very high on the scale for new opportunities, it's just that people have to want it bad enough, I digress but to my point if illegal immigrants were to enter the country it should be only on one term and that is to work. Now people are like oh those illegal are taking our jobs away but in reality if they were to pay attention in life rather than listen down the grape vine they would know that most illegal immigrants take jobs that most Americans wouldn't such as helping farmers pick food, they also pick up trash, and so on. These jobs are looked upon very unfavorably by the tens of millions of Americans. So to end my opinion, I shall state this, Illegal Immigrants under no circumstances should be allowed sanctuary in a country they do not belong to , only and mean only if they have a working visa and are monitored very closely to where they could not just fit into the populous and just disappear. There shall be tight restrictions to what they may do. As for the illegal immigrants that are currently in the country i feel they need to be found and deported to their home countries and be encouraged to become a U.S. citizen but there shall not be any automatic citizenship. You cannot just be forgiven and be granted something that you haven't earned. Only those that follow the rules shall get access and sometimes they don't even fit the standards.
DeFool

Pro

I thank CON for instigating this discussion. (As I understand my requirements) I shall be playing the role of PRO, and shall be attempting to accomplish the following:
  • I must challenge the assertions made by CON, to ensure that his Burden of Proof is being met. It is not obviously a requirement of mine to propose any counter argument, (based on the R1 instigation) although I will do so
  • I will defend the claim that CON's overall argument (from R1) is not VALID
In addition, I will argue that many of the statements made by CON in R1 are moot (already being done), or are nonsensical. I want to clearly state that one of his positions is granted at the outset: (that there should be citizenship requirements that are respected by prospective applicants.) I will not defend the position that there should be no such requirements.

I have accepted this debate in order to test the statements made in R1. If subsequent statements are made that retract the R1 argument, then this should be seen as a concession to myself.

If I am in error in my understanding of my requirements in this contest, then I invite CON to detail my misunderstandings in the comments section, and I will (of course) respect any agreements made there.

In the meantime, I will outline CON's R1 argument, which I will scrutinize:

P1: Illegal immigrants should be allowed into the US in order to work
If illegal immigrants were to enter the country it should be only on one term and that is to work.


P2: Illegal immigrants should not be allowed sanctuary abroad
Illegal Immigrants under no circumstances should be allowed sanctuary in a country they do not belong to


P2(A): Unless they have a "working Visa"
[unless] they have a working visa and are monitored very closely

P3: Yet the illegal immigrants allowed into the country under P1 should be rounded up
the illegal immigrants that are currently in the country need to be found and deported to their home countries

P4: there should be citizenship requirements (this is granted, and so will not be analyzed or challenged)

The conclusion is far too disjointed and obscure for me to discern from this. I see a number of possible unstated conclusions that may be drawn from the R1 opening, and so I do not want to play ventriloquist in attempting to articulate what the exact consequence of these premises might be.

My position for this debate will therefore will be to defend the assertion that the R1 argument, as presented, has severe structural problems.

I look forward to R2.

Debate Round No. 1
Knight

Con

Knight forfeited this round.
DeFool

Pro

Sadly, I seem to be speaking to an empty room.

I will argue that the R1 argument by CON cannot be sustained as presented, and must be modified. This is a breakdown of the argument:

P1: Illegal immigrants should be allowed into the US in order to work
If illegal immigrants were to enter the country it should be only on one term and that is to work.
Here, the key error is the inclusion of the word “illegal.” CON seems to consider any immigrant to be “illegal,” which presumably includes those legal immigrants who come into the US on a work or student visa.




P2: Illegal immigrants should not be allowed sanctuary abroad
Illegal Immigrants under no circumstances should be allowed sanctuary in a country they do not belong to
It is difficult to understand how immigrants could be allowed sanctuary in their home country. The statement is paradoxical, and may not be true.


P2(A): Unless they have a "working Visa"
[unless] they have a working visa and are monitored very closely
If they are in the US on a work Visa, then the person is not here illegally.



P3: Yet the illegal immigrants allowed into the country under P1 should be rounded up
the illegal immigrants that are currently in the country need to be found and deported to their home countries
This conflicts with P1, where CON states that ‘illegal’ immigrants should be allowed into the country in order to work.



P4: there should be citizenship requirements (this is granted, and so will not be analyzed or challenged)


Concluding analysis:

CON makes an error when he groups all immigrants into the category of ‘illegal immigrants.’ The argument that was presented cannot be reconciled with itself; immigrants cannot be simultaneously allowed into the US in order to work, and still be rounded up and deported. Additionally, those with valid, legal clearance to enter and visit the United States can no longer be considered ‘illegal.’

Moreover, many of the positions in the R1 argument are already law, or represent only the opinion of CON.

Debate Round No. 2
Knight

Con

Knight forfeited this round.
DeFool

Pro

I extend my arguments.
Debate Round No. 3
Knight

Con

Knight forfeited this round.
DeFool

Pro

Extend and conclude.
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Knight 3 years ago
Knight
I added it to the bottom of my paragraph
Posted by Mikal 3 years ago
Mikal
i may take this but i need to know your stance on what to do with illegal immigrants that are citizens at this moment.
Posted by Mikal 3 years ago
Mikal
i may take this but i need to know your stance on what to do with illegal immigrants that are citizens at this moment.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
KnightDeFoolTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by lannan13 3 years ago
lannan13
KnightDeFoolTied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by Themoderate 3 years ago
Themoderate
KnightDeFoolTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: CON Forfeited