The Instigator
DeletedEmails
Pro (for)
The Contender
benbspiller
Con (against)

Illegal Immigration Is Bad For Americans

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/13/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 4 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 471 times Debate No: 103954
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (0)

 

DeletedEmails

Pro

Illegal immigration is not only ILLEGAL in it's definition, but is also extremely regressive for Americans in terms of it's effect on both the economy and government benefits systems otherwise known collectively as welfare. In 2015, there was an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants living in the United States. Of that amount, around 8 million immigrants made up around 5% of the total national civilian workforce (those working, were unemployed but able to work and those looking for work). The unemployment rate was around 5.7 percent at the time of the previous statistic. Based on the aforementioned statistics, one could reasonably conclude that presence of these illegal immigrants impacted the amount of American citizens able to work. Now, these statistics don't prove this theory, yet. In 2015, around 8 billion dollars was contributed to the federal reserve by these illegal immigrants by around 50% of illegal immigrant households. If you do the math, this equates to around 1,300 dollars paid for each of those tax-paying immigrants. Doing even more math leads to the average salary of these immigrants totaling around 25,500 dollars a year. Let's assume they work full time, which is at least 40 hours a week, and that they work every week of the year. Their hourly wage is 12.26 dollars an hour. That's around 4 and a half more dollars per hour than minimum wage.
benbspiller

Con

I thank my opponent for allowing me to debate this topic with him. As my opponent didn't outline the term of illegal immigration I will do so now
Illegal : contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law.
Immigration : the action of coming to live permanently in a foreign country.
I would like to note that my opponent did not outline any sources for their arguments, so there is a pretense that these arguments could be not factually correct. But by going by these statistics, the affirmative argues that illegal immigrants are having a negative impact on the U.S. economy, but this is in fact incorrect. The immigrant population that are undocumented can not attain any high ranking work, in turn resulting in the occupancy of low-tier jobs. In America, the amount of accessible jobs is actually very high, as there are constantly companies hiring, that anyone can apply for. Any American who is unemployed is almost guaranteed a job in customer service as they are consistently hiring. Furthermore, my opponent is unclear in the point he is presenting with his mathematical reasoning in the ending of his statement and I await clarification of his main points as to why illegal immigration is bad for Americans in the next round.
Debate Round No. 1
DeletedEmails

Pro

In response to my opponents request for sources, I used statistics from the U.S. Department of Labor and the U.S. Internal Revenue Service, I thank my opponent for not only reading my argument, but for giving me an argument worth debating. I am also glad that we both clearly understand the definition of Illegal Immigration. My opponent argues that illegal immigrants cannot attain any high-ranking work, thus making them occupants of low-ranking jobs. The majority of americans do not have jobs considered "high-ranking" due to both the current economic system of labor in which machines produce materials, but they are maintained, designed, replaced, and operated by laborers earning either minimum wage (7.50 where I live) or more based on either experience, education, or efficiency in doing their jobs. In fact, one of the key demographics behind current president Donald Trump's victory in the presidential election was whites without a college degree, who worked mainly in industrial or agricultural labor. My opponent did not provide any definitions of what he considers "high-ranking" or "low-ranking" jobs, or even any statistics to define the differences in earnings between them. Is 12.26 considered "high-ranking" or "low-ranking" compared to the average american's wages. The 2010 U.S. Census stated that only 32.1% of Americans had a college degree. Would the other 67.9% have "high-ranking" jobs? Probably not since over 11 million illegal immigrants have flooded our country's job market. I believe that 11 million is a low-ball estimate, the real number is probably closer to 17-20 million. In 2013, 85.5% of Americans paid either income or payroll tax, compared to around 50% of illegal immigrants. Of the 14.5% of the country that didn't pay either, 9.7% were the elderly, and the remaining 4.7% made less than $20,000 year, paying around $2,700 a year through pre-payroll tax. Now, I reference the fact that illegal immigrants make up around 5% of the national civiilian workforce which means that in theory, they could make up that 4.7% of americans who make less than 20,000 a year. But, they make an average of 25,500 a year, making them ineligible. Hmm. But what's really odd is the fact that if you divide the amount paid in taxes (8 billion) by the total workforce (8 million) you come out with $1,000 paid every year in taxes by ALL illegal immigrants. But, as I sais before only half of them actually pay income taxes, making the average tax paid around $2,000. You might say "See, they pay taxes!" But let's see if this makes any sense. That 4.7% of americans, who made 5,000 dollars LESS a year than illegal immigrants pay around 700 dollars MORE than the illegal immigrants who pay taxes. In conclusion, not only do illegal immigrants occupy jobs that american citizens could have, they don't even pay their fair share.
benbspiller

Con

I'll begin by refuting points made by my opponent by drawing statistics directly from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
My opponent argues that illegal immigrants occupy jobs american citizens have, and that they don't pay their "fair share" in taxes. I would also like to state that my opponent has the 'burden of proof' in this matter and he must forthrightly prove that illegal immigrants are making it harder for Americans to find jobs. Finally, I would like to point out once again, the "math" he is doing has no cited work, or sources, and statistics that are use are either outdated, or incorrect.
- Occupation of jobs
The unemployment rate is currently just around 4.4%. According to the BoLS thats approximately 7.1 million unemployed Americans. These statistics actually include those that CHOOSE not to work, such as stay at home parents, or those that aren't looking for a job. Currently in the job market, there are 6.2 million job opportunities, this does include high-skill (college degree needed) jobs, but also low-skill (no degree) jobs, such as truck driving. In addition, these are only documented job openings, not those of such in customer service and retail. This totals to much more than the 7.1 unemployed Americans in the workforce. Also the argument previously used by my opponent should be and is nullified by the fact it is biased to his state, not America as he referenced a minimum wage of "7.50".
-Fairness
Simply put, there is no way to indicate what is "fair" otherwise by using opinion. Although some facts can be disputed over this matter. My opponent used a biased mathematical process in which is supposed to sway the reader, which isn't proper, but furthermore I don't believe my opponent is giving the entire picture of what these taxes are for and I will define it for the reader.
Tax : a compulsory contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and business profits or added to the cost of some goods, services, and transactions.
The point of taxes is to assist with funding government based programs that help Americans, or fund American budgets. This could include welfare, social security, and the worker's union. In stating this, it is actually impossible for an illegal immigrant to register for any of these benefits making any tax they pay, not returned, redistributing that money into the American economy. My opponent stated that 8 billion dollars were contributed to the federal reserves by immigrants meaning 8 billion dollars were redistributed among Americans and not to immigrants. Furthermore, these immigrants aren't paying an income tax, but still some are. Whenever they purchase a service or good, that is taxed. So stating the fact that immigrants are paying taxes is factually incorrect, they aren't contributing money into government programs. But as mentioned before, some are, and apparently that was 8 billion dollars added that they can never receive, sounds pretty unfair to the immigrants.
Debate Round No. 2
DeletedEmails

Pro

Why should illegal immigrants be able to even get jobs here in the first place? If you are not an American Citizen, you should not be entitled to the same rights that an American Citizen has. I forget the name of the law, but it goes something like this:
If you are not a citizen of America and you are in America, you:
A) Are not protected under the law by the constitution or it's amendments since they are reserved for American Citizens.
B) You are however, held responsible for any criminal acts that you commit.

You say that Illegal Immigrants could be a major contributer to the economy if they became citizens. I agree, somewhat. If they are actively applying for citizenship or else taking a citizenship course, they should be allowed to stay. If they are simply here to either commit crimes or steal American jobs, get the hell out. If they come on a visa, okay, but once it runs out, get the hell out. Wouldn't it make more sense for American Citizens to get those jobs first?
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
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