The Instigator
RepublicanView333
Pro (for)
Winning
42 Points
The Contender
Harlan
Con (against)
Losing
21 Points

Illegal Immigration: Should we deport all illegal immigrants we find in the U.S.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/12/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,978 times Debate No: 63
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (39)
Votes (21)

 

RepublicanView333

Pro

Contrary to common belief illegal immigration is more of a problem than many people think. More than 15 million illegals are in the U.S. right now and more are coming. Illegal immigrants put a strain on tax dollars and take jobs from hard working legal americans. Our country is not a free sample cart sitting in the middle of the supermarket that is life you can't just come on in a try some of it.
Harlan

Con

Hello, republicanview, glad to debate you.

You are right; there are certainly about 15 million illegal immigrants now living within the US. Yes, I agree that this is a problem; there is no dispute of that. It appears, then that the solution is the only thing we disagree on.

It certainly would be wonderful if it was as simple as shipping them across the border, and then the problem was solved. Unfortunately, there are several problems with this solution, and it is a lot more complex than this.

First, in my opening argument I will focus on the practicality of this solution. So, you are suggesting that we deport give or take 15 million people across the border. That is interesting. First of all, the illegal immigrants live in every corner of this nation. They live everywhere in this 3,537,441 square mile expanse that is the United States.

Funding a project of this magnificent size (trying to solve this problem via your suggestion) is unthinkable. Though it may help the cause somewhat, it would overall just scratch the surface of all the illegal immigrants within these borders. It would overall be a waste of money.

The population of the US is about 300 million. Your claim of 15 million illegal immigrants (which is probably about right) being in the US would indicate that they consist of about 5% of our population. You do the math. How the heck will we reasonably ship 5% of our Population across the border within reasonable cost? Let me remind you that 5% means one in twenty

This is the only the FIRST reason I will provide for why this idea does not work.

-Harlan
Debate Round No. 1
RepublicanView333

Pro

An answer to this problem certainly is easy nor won't it cost money but it doesn't have to cost alot(atleast to the goverment). Nor will it be a waste of money.

The North County Times reports that illegal immigrants directly cost the county of San Diego 101 million dollars last year and an indirect 155 million in unpaid health care. I know thats just San Diego county but California is one of the countys in California. California hosts 3 million of our illegal immigrants approximaTLY 1/5 Of the immigrants in our country. So if it costs one county of Californis that much money imagine how much it will cost our whole nation. I promise you I will get that info next round but i don't have much time.

Now Harlan I'm sure you know that 256 million dollars is alot of money especially for on county in our country. And that was only last year. Imagine how much in the last 5 years. 10 years. What could we use that money? Maybe use that money to make sure the immigrants get our and don't get back in.

Now im not saying that we have to put 100% of our effort immediatly but at least 25% or more has to be put in to at least get rid of a substantiol amount of them. Then when we see some results we can slack. We can even use the minutemen that patrol our borders. Use them as bounty hunters only w/out the kill. Place them in los angeles, san diego all the known places with high illegal poputations.

It will take time and effort to catch these illegal immigrants. but for all the money they cost us its worth the time & effort
Harlan

Con

Hello,

You pointed out that 1/5 of the illegal immigrants live in one county. You then proceeded to argue that if one county is affected so much, then the rest of the nation must suffer a lot. This logic in no way works, as no other county as the heavy concentration of illegal immigrants that this county has.

You mentioned something quite intriguing: "What could we use that money?" Despite the grammatical errors, this has some logic. Think of all the money it would take to end illegal immigration in this manner. There are so many problems that are pressing and immediate that we are ignoring, yet there is so much complaining about illegal immigration.

In fact, we are losing a lot more money on things, which many people are ignoring, for instance:

As of an analysis in September of 2006, we are spending about $2,000,000,000 (2 billion)…..A WEEK, on the Iraq war.
All of this Tax money from the 300 million people of the US. Is this immigration issue really priority?

There are so MANY more important things that are government should be investing on WAY before we even bother about solving illegal immigration. In fact, solving illegal immigration should be near the BOTTOM of our list of things to do. We should be investing on such things as global warming.

Now, imagine just sending out 5% of our population across the border. Is your thinking so delusional so as to believe that this would not affect over-all state of life and economy? You complain about money spent because they do not pay taxes. Did you ever consider that they do labor for YOU, at a sub- minimum wage salary? THEY have the bad end of the deal, republicanview. You complain about taxes, but they do labor, putting food on YOUR table, and do not get what they deserve.

Did you ever consider that they BENEFIT society more than they damage it?

What would we do if suddenly they were all over the border?

Think of all the roles in society that 5% fills. One in twenty people; that is a lot of jobs; a lot of niches in society that would not be fulfilled.

I would like to provide my own, more cost-efficient, least society damaging method:

It is simple; all we have to do is make it a lot easier to get citizenship. Lets not be hasty though; I am not saying we should just open the flood gates (metaphorically), that would be a true disaster.

I think, though, that this would be a reasonable solution. This way, we do not have to send 5% of our population away, but merely give them easier citizenship so that they CAN pay taxes. We do not have a population problem in the US, so I see no reason for there not to be easier citizenship.

No matter what solution we try, though, there will always be some illegal immigration.
Debate Round No. 2
RepublicanView333

Pro

Hello Harlan,

You state that the illegal immigrants do more help than harm. You call my statements illogical but really that statement by itself is more illogical than anything I said. Remember last round I promised to bring you the amount illegals cost us in a whole. Well i kept to my word because here it is:

Here's the break down:

Illegal immigrants pay approximately 16 Billion dollars per year in taxes.

Sounds pretty good right?

This is how much they cost us:

They cost Arizona taxpayers alone over $1 billion annually in services for schools, medical care, welfare anchor babies, loss of tax base and prisons.

Illegal aliens displaced American workers at a cost in excess of $133 billion dollars last year according to Harvard Professor George Borjas.

75 percent of drugs arrive from Mexico at a net cost of $120 billion hard currency that leaves our country for good. In addition, our tax dollars pay $80 billion for the War on Drugs each year.

$1.6 billion annually in prison costs to house, feed and clothe those filling 30 percent of our federal and state prisons "not to mention TV, movies, weight rooms and other entertainment" they enjoy while being incarcerated.

The average annual cost per child K-12 is $7,161.00 and exceeds $109 billion annually per cycle of anchor babies. That is your money given out to 300,000 moms and their kids annually and all they did was get pregnant and birth that child on U.S. soil.

Average bilingual education is $1,200.00 per illegal alien student. We educate 1.1 million illegal alien children each year. Georgia taxpayers paid a whopping $242 million for educating illegal alien kids in 2003.

The average head of household illegal alien costs you $2,700.00 in welfare money over and above any taxes he or she pays in their meager paying jobs. With 15 to 20 million illegal aliens in the USA, that figures exceeds $20 billion of your tax dollars.

$56 billion in pure cash illegal migrants sent to their home countries last year and every year? That's after their kids enjoyed free education, free lunches and free medical care paid for by you. Mexico receives $15 billion annually from its worker drones. No wonder Vicente Fox sent us 9.2 million illegal alien Mexicans so far.

The lifetime net fiscal drain "taxes paid minus services used" for an adult immigrant is $55,200.00. $27 billion to provide forms, ballots, interpreters and brochures for languages other than English

It costs $200 million to provide for emergency health care for illegal aliens in the Border States annually. California with over three million illegals paid $79 million, BUT four of their major LA hospitals bankrupted and shut their doors in 2004. Texas with 1.5 million illegal aliens paid $74 million in hospital care.

Georgia ran a $63 million deficit for 64,000 unpaid doctor visits. The total of illegal aliens flooding into the United States this year will total three million "enough to fill 22,000 737 Boeing airliners, or 60 flights every day for a year".

Harlan you do the math

Lucky i did the math for you. and if you doubt my mathematical abilities you can check me

In all that's $789,263,000,000. Lots of money isn't it. If you divide it by 50 that's 1,578,526,000 dollars per state. Over one billion dollars per state. I know that some states, particularly the border states pay more in the cases of Texas and California lots more but in all even you can't say that's not a lot of money.

So, what could we use that money for?
We could spend it on the War in Iraq with the money that the illegals cost us we could stay in Iraq for another 394,631,500,000 weeks if your statistic of us paying 2 billion a week on Iraq is true. we could get out of there and have money to spare.

Oh and i almost forgot if illegals pay about 16 billion a year in taxes. then to pay us off they have about another...$773,263,000,000 togo before we are even.

Harlan I'm sure if i don't address this you will harp all over me in your next submission so here i go.

You say that illegals make up a huge part of our society. Well in reality they make up a huge part of the pain in the arse in our society. True they take jobs for lower wages but how many people do they take jobs from. They poverty rate of the U.S. of last year is 12.9%. That's 13 in one hundred people that" don't have the essentials for a minimal standard of well being and life. And the illegal immigrants our taking jobs from our impoverished that would love the job. May i repeat:

Illegal aliens displaced American workers at a cost in excess of $133 billion dollars last year according to Harvard Professor George Borjas.

To your solution. I is reasonable but i would like details how would we make it easier? What would we do. It could be a reason able solution depending on the details. But if you say what i think you might say to "make it easier' then it would be a...problem.
Harlan

Con

Harlan forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
39 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Harlan 9 years ago
Harlan
I know these questions were not directed at me, but I thought I would answer them.

"why the heck do you have any rights"

UNALIEBLE rights.

"why the heck do you not get you papers"

Becasue that takes longer, and is very difficult.

"you sound like a messsed up illegal "

Now thats a bit insulting.

"let people who actually deserve jobs get them"

You don't get to decide who "deserves" to have jobs

"how about go to college "

Because college is expensive
Posted by drea10113 9 years ago
drea10113
omfg o whatever you call youself.
if you are illegal why the heck do you have any rights?? huuhhh? if you are immigrants that is fine. but if america is somewhere you want to be why the heck do you not get you papers.
you guys are costing everyone sooooo much money. just do the right thing.
i know it can suck, but thats the world we live in.
you have to take the good with the bad.
just stop complaining, you sound like a messsed up illegal trying to plead their messed up case.
simple fact
illegal means against the law.
if you do something illegal you get in troubel ie get sent back to where ever you have been sending the money that should have been given to the goverment like taxes.
Grow up.
at least be nice enough to leave. and let people who actually deserve jobs get them??? huhhh?
oh by the way why are about 50% of illegals on welfare if they came here for a better life. how about go to college get an education then get a job.??
Posted by griffinisright 9 years ago
griffinisright
I have to go with, RepublicanView333 on this one! He really brought a stronger argument! Good job!
Posted by RepublicanView333 9 years ago
RepublicanView333
WooooooooW, you copied and pasted this comment on ur other debate...WooooooooW wat a loser...I was wondering why your other debate didn't make sense
Posted by ojmartinez25 9 years ago
ojmartinez25
If all of the illegal immigrant that make up 5% of the american population were gone tomorrow, accordingly about 5% of jobs would be left empty tomorrow. all of these niches would be UNFULFILLED. it is important that we not just send them all away. in fact, you admit this yourself by claiming that there is a problem because they take a lot of Jose from americans. on subject: you back up your argument by saying "the illegal immigrant our taking jobs from our impoverished that would love the job." anytime that anyone ever takes a job, they are destroying the hypothetical opportunity for another to have that job.
these immigrants came here for reason. they came hereto make money because where they came from they were surrounded by poverty. they deserve those jobs, just as much as the next impoverished guy. most illegal immigrants are certainly in poverty.

a problem with your solution that I would like to throw out now, is this:
a large amount of illegal immigrant come here and then have children. these children are natural citizens. tell me:
would you only deport the parents, leaving the children to be orphans, or would you deport the children too, who never broke any laws, are natural citizens, and who you would be putting them in a state of poverty? this is only one of many examples of the various complexities of a project of this magnitude and impact
Posted by ojmartinez25 9 years ago
ojmartinez25
I think that all immigration have the right like all US citizen. They should not be deport back to their country. They just came here to work and have a better life like every one else.
Posted by RepublicanView333 9 years ago
RepublicanView333
if anyone is still hung up on this debate we are reopening it, so..go there
Posted by Harlan 9 years ago
Harlan
followed your suggestion, Ivisman. Thanks. I hope republicanview will accept. Republicanview, after accepting my challenge, please give me a little time to put it on the comments forum, which I cannot do until you acceot.
Posted by Harlan 9 years ago
Harlan
Scratch that, I was way abpve the limit. -------------------
Posted by Harlan 9 years ago
Harlan
Nevermind, I was not as far above the limit as I percieved. I fixed it.
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