The Instigator
FrontLineConservative
Con (against)
Winning
39 Points
The Contender
IraqiStateOfAmerica
Pro (for)
Losing
18 Points

Illegal Immigration

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/14/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,947 times Debate No: 452
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (19)

 

FrontLineConservative

Con

Whether it's through the underground tunnels from Mexico to Arizona or the ocean trek from Cuba to Florida, illegal immigration happens and should be stopped.

There is a reason why we have a thorough process to issue an immigrant his/her U.S. citizenship.

Everyone can relate and understand analogies, or so I hope, so that's where I'll start.

We all have stood in line at a grocery store, gas station, etc. and we know what it feels like to wait for our turn to pay-out. Sometimes the line is short and sometimes it's long. Regardless, we all know how to wait for our turn. Now, tell me how you'd feel if someone cut right in front of you while you are waiting in line? You wouldn't like it. Illegal immigrants do the same thing but on a much larger scale. They blatantly ignore the laws that we have set to protect our country. You may argue that a large number of illegals are fleeing to the U.S. in search of jobs and you would be correct. But, by being sympathetic to those that are in search of jobs you do more harm than good. By being sympathetic to them you are turning away from what is really the pressing matter. Terrorists/Terrorism can easily be funneled into the U.S. through Mexico. I'm not willing to sit back and watch someone come into our country, destroy our economy, and possibly kill Americans because of flawed immigration/border legislation.

So next time when someone cuts in front of you at the gas station throw away the stereotypical thought of the "fleeing family in search of jobs" and realize that because of a lack of security concerning our border it might just be a terrorist that has cut in front of you.
IraqiStateOfAmerica

Pro

So your talking about the grocery stores right. Honestly ask yourself the next time your in a grocery store instead of worrying about someone cutting in front of you and using that as an analogy for an illegal immigrant how bout you stop and think about how the grocery's that you have in your basket. How they got on those shelves in the first place? I'm pretty sure its not a blue eyed blond haired man that picked those cherry's or strawberry's that you have in your fridge as we debate but most likely picked by an illegal immigrant that your complaining and so angry about. Weather you or I like it or not illegal immigrants do most of the back-breaking hard work in America that most people would never want to do.
Debate Round No. 1
FrontLineConservative

Con

Well, if you only knew me. I grew up on a farm and my family has done it my entire life. I know what it's like to be on the tractor for 15 hours a day. I also know what it's like to be in a field all hoeing weeds while it's 100 degrees.

My argument is not that we shouldn't have LEGAL immigration, my argument is that those who break our immigration laws should be removed. By allowing them to stay we are rewarding them for breaking OUR laws and OUR statutes. Their are all sorts of ways how people can come and work in the U.S. to help provide for their family (ex. Temporary Visa, most of our workers are on a Temporary Visa and the others are legal citizens).

My argument also encompasses the fact that we need a better plan regarding our border. I live only a few hours away from the border and I know the first hand effects of having illegals come across. I know what type of effect they have on our community and I'm not going to stand for it.

If you live remotely close to the border you might know a little of what I'm talking about.
IraqiStateOfAmerica

Pro

I honestly do know what your talking about. My pops and I moved out to Cali to expand his construction business only to fail because Immigrants where to hard to compete with. But thats life i cant blame a "class" of people because they conduct business differently or because they "cut the line" when coming to the United States. But we all want to blame someone or something for our problems and this time of age its usually the immigrants who are the scapegoats. As far as terrorism goes.. Lol Honestly do you actually think that a sophisticated terrorist or organization would get in the United States illegally? I'm pretty sure they would do every right thing and follow the "Laws" to get to the United States. 9-11 ring any bells? None of the hijackers or a matter of fact no terrorist ever in America's history came across the border from Mexico. Your watching to much fox-news maybe? "They report and you decide" right? besides California, Arizona, Texas and New Mexico used to be part of Mexico... No it doesn't give them the right to hop our fence and raise there family's but America encourages that kind of behavior in the first place. Yes, it does encourage that kind of behavior especially with that military law which states "join the US military and become a US citizen" hell there whole family become US citizens. So if you want to be angry and mad and get them immigrants out of the States how bout turning negative to a positive and look at how much immigrants have contributed to this country. America was basically built on the backs of Immigrants.If you want to Blame anyone it should be the government. By the way forgot to mention the only reason the military is able to keep up with its recruiting quotas are because of Hispanics. Nearly 15 percent of U.S. Marine Corps enlisted personnel were Hispanic, compared with 6 percent of Air Force enlisted personnel. Latino representation in the Navy has been rising. By September 2006, they constituted 14 percent of Navy enlisted personnel, about the same as in the Marine Corps that year
Debate Round No. 2
FrontLineConservative

Con

This debate is pointless. I've pointed out twice that I do support LEGAL immigration. The debate has nothing to do with whether or not immigrants contribute to society or not. It has to do with the fact that ILLEGAL immigration needs to be stopped. I'm all for Mexican citizens coming into the United States in a LEGAL manner. The problems starts when they completely disregard our LAWS and STATUTES that we uphold.

By allowing ILLEGAL immigrants to stay in OUR country, we are simply rewarding unlawful behavior. So next time someone breaks into your house just give them a plate full of food and $1000 and tell them that their friends and family are more than welcome to do the same. You'll have more come, I promise.

There are thousands of ILLEGALS in the U.S. that have been convicted of felony's. Explain to me how you justify allowing ILLEGALS to stay in our country but turning a cold shoulder to those who are following the LEGAL judicial process to become a citizen of the U.S.
IraqiStateOfAmerica

Pro

Instead of trying to deport all the illegals how bout giving the ones living here already an amnesty and let them go through processing and then lock up our borders from there on out. Are you Seriously insisting that the exodus of hundred of thousands of illegal immigrants back to Mexico or wherever the country they came from is going to benefit the United States? Do u realize the fallout and the economic impact that would have on the United States and abroad? Do you not realize that demonstrations of millions more from there family members and sympathizers would cripple the United States. It would cost the United States far much more money and time to try to get rid of the illegals then just letting them stay. As far as crime goes my house has been broken into twice, in both occasions it was a black male. unfortunately the area that i used to live at had a high crime rate but also a concentration of African Americans. The area you live in obviously has a large Hispanic community. Point I'm trying to make is that humans would always be humans regardless of there cultural background or social stats . One, you said that a lot of them are convicted felons well first of all if they were illegals or immigrants they would have been deported. Two how many illegals that come to the united states to make an honest living actually pursuit the life of crime? Most are low-key "stay outa the way" kinda people who are pursing the American dream. If you wanna talk about crime heres a little list that might show you how bad illegal immigrants are in the United States.

March 2005 - A 16-year-old high school student gunned down five students, a teacher and a security guard at Red Lake High School in far northern Minnesota before killing himself. He also killed his grandfather and his grandfather's companion elsewhere on the Chippewa Indian reservation.

October 2, 2006 - A local milk truck driver who was not Amish, tied up and shot 10 Amish schoolgirls aged 6 to 14 in their classroom, killing five of them before turning the gun on himself in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, about 97 km west of Philadelphia.

April 16, 2007 - A university in Blacksburg, Virginia, Virginia Tech, became the site of the deadliest rampage in US history when a gunman killed 32 people and himself.

August 12, 2007
CBC News
A gunman opened fire in the sanctuary of a southwest Missouri church Sunday, killing three people and wounding several others, authorities said.

And of course most recently-

December 5, 2007 - A gunman opened fire from a balcony in a shopping mall in Omaha, Nebraska, killing eight people and wounding five, before taking his own life, police said.

Monday, December 10, 2007-COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. — The gunman believed to have killed four people in a pair of shooting sprees at a mega church in Colorado. The gunman was identified as Matthew Murray, 24, who was home-schooled in what a friend said was a deeply religious Christian.

Wow those Darn illegals ruining and killing innocent human lives! We have to deport all of them. Actually None of these attacks were carried out by an illegal immigrant. Ever. its quite the contrary though in 2005 the Bureau of Justice Statistics showed in ethnicity

--

* 794,690 Hispanic persons age 12 or older were victims of rape, sexual assault, robbery, aggravated assault and simple assault.

* Violence against Hispanics age 12 or older most often took the form of simple assault (56%).

* Hispanic persons age 12 or older experienced 15% of all violent crime and made up 13% of the population.

* Hispanics were victims of overall violence at a rate higher than non-Hispanics.

* Hispanics were equally to be victims of simple assault as non-Hispanics.

* Hispanics were victims of robbery and aggravated assault at rates higher than non Hispanics.
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by FrontLineConservative 9 years ago
FrontLineConservative
oh, sorry... you're also from texas. my bad, my bad.
Posted by FrontLineConservative 9 years ago
FrontLineConservative
what's your point? i live in texas. quick geography lesson... texas and mexico share a border. there are a high number of mexican citizens that enter into the u.s. through texas.

why can i not call people that are legally from mexico "mexican citizens." i am from america... you call me american... not offensive at all.
Posted by confines_of_gravity 9 years ago
confines_of_gravity
Not all illegal immigrants are Hispanic. To associate illegal immigration with only Hispanics is extremely offensive to me, as a Hispanic.

Also not all Hispanics are of Mexican decent.

"I'm all for Mexican citizens coming into the United States in a LEGAL manner."

That remark was also offensive. Many people associate "Mexicans" with only illegal immigration and ,by doing this, degrade "Mexicans". I would have appreciated this debate more if both of you would have looked at all aspects of illegal immigration, and all races that are part of it.
Posted by asian_invasion 9 years ago
asian_invasion
i know thats what ur point was... else u would be con.
i just didn't really like the way you did it. And you kinda did associate hispanics with illegal immigrants in the last statistics...
Posted by The_Silent_Consensus 9 years ago
The_Silent_Consensus
A genuine amnesty would be pardoning their past violation, not sanctioning their continued violation. It means them leaving, being pardoned, and allowed to reapply to come legally.

What we need to do is 5-fold:

1. Finish the fence

2. Increase manpower security at the border

3. Deport those we happen upon through law enforcement and social services

4. Enforce sanctions against our employers hiring them just as we enforce all our other labor laws

5. Streamline the immigration process

Generally speaking, I reject the idea categorically that some jobs won't be done by any American. Those who say that need to finish their sentence: some jobs won't be done by any American FOR THE PAY AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT WILL DO IT
Posted by IraqiStateOfAmerica 9 years ago
IraqiStateOfAmerica
lol -asian_invasi on- thats my point none of them were illegal immigrants
Posted by PreacherFred 9 years ago
PreacherFred
"why don't you ask them to please go to the back since you were standing there first?" Isn't that exactly what this country does by insisting they go through teh visa process?
Posted by asian_invasion 9 years ago
asian_invasion
virginia tech killer wasn't illegal immigrant
and the statistics about hispanics - ur assuming that all hispanics are illegal which is ridiculous.
i really did not like how PRO extended the arguement to say that all immigrants are detrimental to society just by giving statistics about crimes they commit.
Posted by killa_connor 9 years ago
killa_connor
The truth of the matter is that illegal immigrants are generally paying taxes. A stunning two-thirds of illegal immigrants pay Medicare, Social Security and personal income taxes (http://www.reason.org...).

This whole talk about "cutting in line" is silly because it doesn't progress the debate or offer any form of solution. It's just people grieving for grievance's sake and spinning real issues into rhetoric. There was a bi-partisan attempt at providing an integration process for illegal immigrants in the country with increased funding to border security proposed in part by Senator Mccain, but thanks to the will of the Republican party it was ultimately shot down and we continue to remain in this "rhetoric stage" of the issue.

I'm voting Pro because he raised the issue of what to do with all the existing illegal aliens who provide the backbone of our service and agricultural industries. Con's arguments were simple-minded and rhetoric based. The grocery store analogy, for example, Is the motivation to "cut the line" in a grocery store life or death? How dare you simplify this issue to such a staggering degree and demonize these people. We're talking about people SO desperate they risk death of dehydration in a desert in order to make it into this country in the attempt to obtain some minimum wage job to provide for their family.
Posted by TeaandScarves 9 years ago
TeaandScarves
What I feel was left out is the fact that immigration is a two sided thing. If you really want to go with the "cutting in line" analogy, why don't you ask them to please go to the back since you were standing there first? What I'm saying is America definately has a hand in this too. A fence? Honestly, would that really stop anyone from coming in if they want to? Mexicans or any other legal or illegal immigrants come here because it is the land of oppritunity. Some, however, realize that they cannot get in legally for some particular reason, but they decide to take the risk anyway to help their families and because they know that there WILL be work in America anyway, even if it means sweat shops or farming crops. Now as it may have implied before, I don't necessarily support sending these immigrants back. Instead, America, the land of immigrants, needs to work cooperatively with Mexico and other countries that immigrants try to enter through to create an immigration system that is reasonable and works. The background checks need to be reasonable and not biased, work visas should be more readily avalible, and most importantly each culture needs to respect the other instead of pointing fingers. That's obviously getting us nowhere. Plus Iraqi is right: if terrorists are going to get in, they're certainly going to be a lot more clever than crossing a boarder.
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