The Instigator
FunkeeMonk91
Pro (for)
Winning
15 Points
The Contender
Gotid24
Con (against)
Losing
6 Points

Illegal Immigration

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/19/2007 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,854 times Debate No: 704
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (7)

 

FunkeeMonk91

Pro

First off, let me just say that I am not "pro-illegal immigration" in the sense that I support people moving here without documentation. Rather, I am for reform that encourages immigration and does not intimidate those who want to better themselves and thier lives.

As an Arizonan, I am right at the center of the illegal immigration debate. I have gotten to know some of the people whom have immigrated here both legally and illegally. In my experience, I have found that immigrants of all kinds, not just Mexicans, enrich our society and benefit all involved. They are here to feed their families, not to steal our jobs or to bring crime into our country. I find it ridiculous that people want to make it impossible for people to come here. I mean, if someone is breaking the law by being here illegally, then they deserve to be dealt with accordingly. But it takes so long to gain citizenship now, that they really have no choice. Why not reform the laws to make citizenship more accessible?
Gotid24

Con

(Just debating to be devils advocate, I am also pro illegal immigration)
It is true that illegal immigrants contribute to the American economy, but they only lower working wages for us American workers. Business owners are always tempted to violate the law by hiring illegal immigrants. They do not hire illegal immigrants because they are better workers than American workers. They only do so because they are cheaper than Americans. If an American should want to break into an industry at the low level(the job most of us dont want to do), he/she is now forced to compete against people who are willing to work illegally for less. We Americans cannot work for less by law, so we Americans can not be forced out of a job that could have had been ours, we would have to break the law. Since the nature businesses and capitalism is to compete, many owners choose to break the law to make profit. This is one of the many problems with illegal immigration in America.
9 Seconds Ago
Debate Round No. 1
FunkeeMonk91

Pro

Thank you for accepting my challenge.

First, of all, how can you say that Americans are better workers than Mexican immigrants? And even though it is impossible to prove who is a better worker, in my experience, immigrants have been the most hard working people I've ever seen. However, I do agree that the influx of Mexican workers is because they are cheap.

Second, if we reform the current system in favor of immigrants, than employers wouldn't have to resort to illegal practices. It takes about 6 years to become a full citizen. This is outrageous! If we make it easier to apply and gain citizenship, or even provide temporary amnesty, than more and more Mexicans will become legal, and this will level the playing field.

People complain about the issues of immigration, but they are all caused by the fact that it is almost impossible to gain citizenship. A new pro-Mexican immigrant policy will solve all this problems in a proactive way.
Gotid24

Con

(Again bro, I'm a waiting and my kitchen staff is all Mexicans and they are my daily heroes, and as a latino I'm proud that they are working hard for a better life of their children. Sadly America is not a good places for everybody, only for the rich. Cause here the rich control everyting, you have to be asleep to believe in the American dream.)
Another problem with illegal immigration in America, is that it is a slap in the face to law-abiding potential immigrants. By allowing people to flood across our two major borders, what does that tell somebody from Eastern Europe who would like to experience the American dream? It tells him that Americans value cheap illegal labor over the application process it forces on people who obey the law. I encourage all Americans to support and encourage the immigrants in our country and the very best way to do so is by opposing illegal immigration practices.
Some state that America cannot afford to round up and deport all the millions of illegal immigrants in our country. They're probably right, and the good news is that America would not have to do so. This problem could be solved by more aggressive legislation and enforcement of anti-illegal immigration laws. If business owners are fined large sums and threatened with prison sentences because of this practice, they will quickly reconsider which method of employment is cheaper; a threat that should be backed up with undercover agents. Once owners get on board and start obeying the law, jobs for illegal immigrants will dry up and illegal immigrants will have to emigrate somewhere else to find work. If there is an employee shortage because of this, wages will rise and the "invisible hand" will ensure that employees are found to fills these jobs.
Finally, I hear many arguments that begin "but they are PEOPLE, you can't just-" Let's get down to hard facts: The world is becoming overpopulated and more people are going into poverty and starvation every year. America is a relatively wealthy nation with room for growth and naturally people will look to America as a place to go to provide for themselves and their families. How many such people can America support? 10 million? 100 million? 1 billion? Draw the line where you see fit, the point is that just because we have compassion for the poor does not mean we can save everybody from poverty by bringing them to our country. This saddens me, as I'm sure it does you but you cannot save a horde of drowning souls by placing them on a small boat; you'll lose both the boat and the doomed people. Compassion in this world is a worthwhile pursuit, but it must be tempered with the proper application of wisdom and foresight.
Debate Round No. 2
FunkeeMonk91

Pro

First of all, I disagree when you say that America is only for the rich. If you mean that only rich men can be a part of the political scheme, then maybe. But Mexican immigrants aren't interested in running for office. And also, the American dream is not dead. It has only become harder to achieve because of people who want strict immigration laws. If the laws become more lenient, then all of the problems you talk about won't be a problem.

"...the very best way to do so is by opposing illegal immigration practices." I agree that illegal immigration is wrong, my beef is that no one is asking why it is a problem. It is because of our anti-immigrant attitude. I believe that if we are proactive, the issues associated with illegal immigration will not be prevalent, because there won't be any more illegals. In other words, "agressive legislation" would not benefit Mexico, or the United States. A lax policy would solve the problem, and make things better for both countries.

How can you say that? It is true that the world is getting more crowded, but that doesn't make the poor inhuman and that doesn't mean we can just give up. Bono once said, "Where we live should no longer decide whether we live." I totally agree. Plus, I live in Arizona where a majority of the immigration is going on. I know first hand that there is plenty of room. This "boat" if far from full and it won't be for many years.
Gotid24

Con

Well man if you havent woken up from the american dream, you should. This is not the best country of the world, this is one of the most corrupt and is the one who is the blame for most of the things that go on in the world. Like how corporation and banks have taken control of the people. There is slavery in america today, we are slave to debt. To get an ok education in the united states you need to go into massive amounts of debt. Health is not universal and millions are left high and dry, Left to die with no help. We live in a corporate facism, if you dont know, get educated. I'm done with this round, becuase this dream that you talk about has never existed, you could be a fool and believe in it, but if you look at the statistic and facts, you will see how f*uck up is this system and how unfair it is. Question the income tax. Question the patriot act. Question the government. Question everyone..
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by FunkeeMonk91 8 years ago
FunkeeMonk91
NSG,

While it is true that what you described is both wrong and illegal, that is not the point. Instead of shunning the Mexican immigrants and forcing them to live a life of poverty, we should try to find out why they are in the situation they are in. This way, we can reform the system so that all people benefit.

If we reform our immigration laws to be more "pro-Mexican" then no laws will be broken, and they can change their lives for the better.
Posted by NSG 8 years ago
NSG
Millions of undocumented workers are someone else's documents. To get a job, illegal immigrants need a Social Security number, and they often "borrow" one.
Thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of Americans are right now sharing their identities with immigrants and don't know it.
Original ID holder can be denied unemployment because records showed he or she had a job. That is not a victmless crime. It is a crime!
-That's my concern.
Posted by Gotid24 8 years ago
Gotid24
(Just debating to be devils advocate, I am also pro illegal immigration)
It is true that illegal immigrants contribute to the American economy, but they only lower working wages for us American workers. Business owners are always tempted to violate the law by hiring illegal immigrants. They do not hire illegal immigrants because they are better workers than American workers. They only do so because they are cheaper than Americans. If an American should want to break into an industry at the low level(the job most of us dont want to do), he/she is now forced to compete against people who are willing to work illegally for less. We Americans cannot work for less by law, so we Americans can not be forced out of a job that could have had been ours, we would have to break the law. Since the nature businesses and capitalism is to compete, many owners choose to break the law to make profit. This is one of the many problems with illegal immigration in America.
Posted by sammer_the_hammer 8 years ago
sammer_the_hammer
what is your contention here? this is just a statement...
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by Chob 8 years ago
Chob
FunkeeMonk91Gotid24Tied
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Vote Placed by DeATHNOTE 8 years ago
DeATHNOTE
FunkeeMonk91Gotid24Tied
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Vote Placed by Thegodddfather 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by Gotid24 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by FunkeeMonk91 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by revleader5 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by Neruda 8 years ago
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