The Instigator
FrontLineConservative
Con (against)
Tied
59 Points
The Contender
policydebategod
Pro (for)
Tied
59 Points

Illegal Immigration

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/21/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 5,407 times Debate No: 764
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (30)
Votes (26)

 

FrontLineConservative

Con

I'm ready for another debate against someone that views illegal immigration as a "positive" thing for America. Let me state this clearly, I am pro-immigration but anti-illegal immigration.

I'm a born and raised Texan and I can debate this topic all day long. I've been around illegals all my life and I know the economic impact that comes with illegal immigrants.
policydebategod

Pro

Make an argument...
Illegal immigrants should be allowed in America and legalized because then they will still be working and paying taxes. On top of that, to buy a house without an American social security number forces you to commit social security fraud to buy a house. These are hard working people who deserve a good life and to escpe from what they had to sffer through in their theird world country.
Debate Round No. 1
FrontLineConservative

Con

Illegal immigration can be summed up very simply... it's ILLEGAL! I try to keep an open mind when discussing immigration in general. I looked at your profile and it says that you are from Stone Mountain, Georgia. You wouldn't know first hand the type of effect that illegal immigration has on our economy. You may say that Georgia has tons of illegals, but I've been there and have seen that you're illegal immigrant problem is on a small scale as opposed to being from Texas and especially West Texas where illegal immigrants are seen everyday, everywhere.

I completely agree that everyone should have an opportunity to work and to provide for their family. I also would say that it's a privilege to be an American citizen and not a God-given right. You're idea of legalizing illegal immigrants is immature and very selfish. What do you say to those that have followed our laws and our statutes to try to become a U.S. citizen? In some cases it takes years to become a U.S. citizen and for someone to enter our nation illegally and reap the benefits of our nation is wrong. I'm proud for those that work their hardest to become a U.S. citizen. They have to learn our culture, customs, and traditions and because of that they know that the American life is a life of integrity, honor, and value. Illegal immigrants enter into our nation to benefit themselves. I believe that to be a "true" American you must contribute something to this nation. That's not what they have on their minds.

Illegals do not pay taxes. They freeload off of hardworking Americans. When you turn 16 you might understand this. I'm ready to hear your argument about how they do work that Americans won't do. It's not true.
policydebategod

Pro

Make an argument...
Illegal immigrants should be allowed in America and legalized because then they will still be working and paying taxes. On top of that, to buy a house without an American social security number forces you to commit social security fraud to buy a house. These are hard working people who deserve a good life and to escpe from what they had to sffer through in their theird world country.

- Illegal immigration can be summed up very simply... it's ILLEGAL!
+ So was a black man marrying a white woman, harboring a Japanese person, etc. Something illegal is not something bad all the time.
- You wouldn't know first hand the type of effect that illegal immigration has on our economy. You may say that Georgia has tons of illegals, but I've been there and have seen that you're illegal immigrant problem is on a small scale as opposed to being from Texas and especially West Texas where illegal immigrants are seen everyday, everywhere.
+ Who cares who has more illegals? Georgia has a significant number and if I lived in Australia I would be abke to debate this debate still.

- I completely agree that everyone should have an opportunity to work and to provide for their family. I also would say that it's a privilege to be an American citizen and not a God-given right. You're idea of legalizing illegal immigrants is immature and very selfish.
+ Can you please make arguments iunstead of insults?

- What do you say to those that have followed our laws and our statutes to try to become a U.S. citizen? In some cases it takes years to become a U.S. citizen and for someone to enter our nation illegally and reap the benefits of our nation is wrong. I'm proud for those that work their hardest to become a U.S. citizen. They have to learn our culture, customs, and traditions and because of that they know that the American life is a life of integrity, honor, and value. Illegal immigrants enter into our nation to benefit themselves.
+ We have to think logically. Some things are not fair. And things always modernize. What about the slaves who were not freed? Should we enslave all blacks because the formers had to endure hardship?

- I believe that to be a "true" American you must contribute something to this nation.
+ Tell that to the welfare line.

- That's not what they have on their minds.
+ Illegals are typically very hardworking people.

- Illegals do not pay taxes.
+ If we legalise them, they will pay taxes by law.

- They freeload off of hardworking Americans.
+ This is just a rude stereotype and not a fact. Most illegals work very hartd for their families.

- When you turn 16 you might understand this.
+ Im not insulting you. I wish you would grant the same thing to me.

- I'm ready to hear your argument about how they do work that Americans won't do. It's not true.
+ How are illegals not starving? If all illegals dont work and are inelligible for welfare how are they not all dead?

PLEASE MAKE AN ARGUMENT AND GET SOME PROOF FOR YOUR STEREOTYPICAL ARGUMENTS

IF ILLEGALS ARE LEGALIZED THEY WILL PAY TAXES AND LOWER SOCIAL SECURITY FRAUD. ALSO THESE PEOPLE DESERVE TO LIVE IN A PLACE WHERE THEIR KIDS CAN HAVE OPPURTUNITES AND TEY CAN EAT EVERYDAY. THESE ARE HARDWORKING AMERICANS.
Debate Round No. 2
FrontLineConservative

Con

You obviously are not understanding my argument. Illegals do not and should not have the same rights that we do. They have come over here illegally. We, as a nation, require certain standards to be met before you can become a U.S. citizen. I know that they have it rough in Mexico but they should not come in the United States illegally and reap the benefits of a law-abiding country.

What kind of signal are we sending to the world, or to our citizens, when we legalize millions of illegal immigrants? We say, "Go ahead and break our laws because there are no consequences if you do." Let's just tell everyone to do what they want, legal or illegal, because in the end we all need to "modernize" and times will change to allow this type of behavior. That's not very logical to me.

I say that we begin to deport all of those that have entered into the U.S. illegally. I don't think that we will be able to get rid of them all but we can try. This will send a signal to everyone that wants to become a U.S. citizen that they must follow our laws and must submit to the process that we have in place.

I also believe that we need a fence. I don't know any of the logistics, but I would say that it needs to go from the southern tip of Texas all the way to west coast of California.

Hiring more Border Patrol agents is also a necessity. I ask you this question, why should we have a Border Patrol if all we are going to do is allow anyone that wants into the U.S. to go ahead and come?

Why do we have laws against illegal immigration?

Should we allow anyone that wants in to the U.S. to freely enter?

I'm not insulting you, I just believe that you do not understand the magnitude of the entire illegal immigration situation.

You're solution is to legalize illegal immigrants. That completely goes against what our justice system is all about.

Let's just legalize crystal meth because their are people that "need" to sell it to provide for their family.

Let's legalize murder because some people can't control their actions and we shouldn't punish them because of their lack of self-control.

This is a policy of appeasement. It never works.
policydebategod

Pro

I FULLY UNDERSTAND ALL OF YOUR ARGUMENTS. I JUST DISAGREE WITH THEM. WELCOME TO DEBATE.

- Illegals do not and should not have the same rights that we do. They have come over here illegally. We, as a nation, require certain standards to be met before you can become a U.S. citizen.
+ If they do not have the same rights we do then:
THEY WOULD NEVER GET AN EDUCATION AND END UP IN VIOLENT CRIMES OR LIKE THE MAJORITY IN HOUSE CLEANING, ETC.
OR THEY WOULD USE AMERICANS' SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS TO BUY HOUSES
both of those take place now.

- know that they have it rough in Mexico but they should not come in the United States illegally and reap the benefits of a law-abiding country.
+ why not? we are not even a law abiding country. this point is ridiculous and illogical.

- What kind of signal are we sending to the world, or to our citizens, when we legalize millions of illegal immigrants? We say, "Go ahead and break our laws because there are no consequences if you do." Let's just tell everyone to do what they want, legal or illegal, because in the end we all need to "modernize" and times will change to allow this type of behavior. That's not very logical to me.
+ If these people are not legal they WILL NOT PAT TAXES, COMMIT SOCIAL SECURITY FRAUD, AND NOT GET AN EDUCATION IN SOME STATES OR ANY COLLEGES. I have made this point in every round and you have not refuted it. Please respomd to all three or you have agreed to them and will lose the debate.

- I say that we begin to deport all of those that have entered into the U.S. illegally. I don't think that we will be able to get rid of them all but we can try. This will send a signal to everyone that wants to become a U.S. citizen that they must follow our laws and must submit to the process that we have in place.
+ SARCASM: Youre right. If we TRY to deport every illegal we can send a message. Logically, the message will be that, if you come to our country, we will send you back to your country so that you can...come back the next day and try again. TRYING to send all illegals back is illogical and no message will be sent.
WE ARE ALREADY TRYING TO DEPORT ALL ILLEGALS!!! THAT IS AMERICAN LAW!!! HAVE YOU HEARD OF THE US IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT AGENCY!!!

- I also believe that we need a fence. I don't know any of the logistics, but I would say that it needs to go from the southern tip of Texas all the way to west coast of California.
+ this is so ridiculous!!!
this fence would not support anything!!!
theyve already tried to build a border fence!!!
this fence would have to be very long and impossible to guard, therefore cracks would be made!!!
walls never work(ed). the great wall of china didnot even work!!!
theyll find a way in!!!
boats, highways, planes exist!!!
this would be tons of money pumped into something that would not work!!!
THE NEW BORDER FENCE IS 700 MILES LONG. 1 PERSON A MILE IS NOT ENOUGH. 10 PEOPLE A MILE IS NOT ENOUGH. 100 A MILE IS A STRETCH. BUT JUST TO PLEASE YOU. THAT WOULD BE 700,000 BORDER PATROLS AND THAT WOULD STILL BE INEFFECTIVE.

- Hiring more Border Patrol agents is also a necessity. I ask you this question, why should we have a Border Patrol if all we are going to do is allow anyone that wants into the U.S. to go ahead and come?
+ We dont allow anyone iunto the US. The debate is pro illagal immigration.

- Why do we have laws against illegal immigration?
+ To stop illegal immigration...

- Should we allow anyone that wants in to the U.S. to freely enter?
+ Yes.

- I'm not insulting you, I just believe that you do not understand the magnitude of the entire illegal immigration situation.
+ Well.

- You're solution is to legalize illegal immigrants. That completely goes against what our justice system is all about.
+ Well, imagine that.

- Let's just legalize crystal meth because their are people that "need" to
sell it to provide for their family.
+ What repeal laws? Thats ridiculous!!! Slavery is stil legal, you cant buy beer, wine or spirits, and women cant vote.
Imagine this: marijuana is legal in some states and some people are for meth legalising. i.e. me!!! Get out of your conservative, protestant, texas bubble.

- Let's legalize murder because some people can't control their actions and we shouldn't punish them because of their lack of self-control.
+ Nobody said that illegals cant control their actions. How is this even relevant? This does not make sense AT ALL.

- This is a policy of appeasement. It never works.
+ ...wtf...

ILLEGALS WILL POST LEGALISATION:
PAY TAXES
GO TO SCHOOL
GO TO COLLEGE
GET BETTER JOBS
IMPROVE OUR ECONOMY
BE FORCED OUT OF SOCIAL SECURITY FRAUD TO BUY HOUSES
BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THEIR FAMILIES
STOP USING UP OUR MONEY TO BUILD 700 MILE FENCES THAT ARE COMPLETELY INEFFECTIVE AND REQUIRE INNEFECTIVE BORDER PATROL

p.s. your whole thing was about messages we would send to other controls by legalising illegals but what message would be sent to countries if we built a border fence? america is an isolationist nation that has not evolved from the cold war.
Debate Round No. 3
30 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by ahopele 2 years ago
ahopele
A lot of illegals actually do pay taxes. People like Con should google this.
Posted by poorenglishspeaker 3 years ago
poorenglishspeaker
Illegal immigrants boost the economy.
That's why the authority couldn't apprehend illegal immigrants.
There seems to be a middle-of-the road thought between official stand versus actual intention.
Thank you very much.
Posted by Brandonmaciel333 4 years ago
Brandonmaciel333
con just got OWNED
too bad he's probably too stubborn to admit to it
this was a great debate
Posted by wjmelements 5 years ago
wjmelements
Posted by luis56 5 years ago
luis56
Illegal Hooker & Stripper

I knows to this illegal hooker & stripper she live in my neiborhood I have so much angry about this.

She make sex with stupid fat American guy he is married with 4 year old son. She brake marraige make so much suffer to family. She make plan to come come here illegal she never work for her J-1 job may be 2 to 3 year ago. She put up on internet she want man in USA or any place. She come here and work only as hooker & stripper. She use any many like pece of paper. This woman is pedazo de mierda!!! I put info on google groups about her now they prvent to my posting so I doesnt put her name here. Only I tell yo she live in mi neiborhood NYC postal code 10001!!! She doesnt allow to fat stupid American guy to see his liitle boy she allways scream & cry. She doesnt like to any body only use people for what she want. She brake any law she want allso.

I make warning to every body in NYC. This is woman muy flaca and she make surgry on face so many time. She change she look alla time pero any body can see this is bad person inside and outside.

Mr Sanja put up postting and I make continue to this. She is danger to any family while she stay in USA. Immigrateon depatment knows to she is illegal they say she cant stay in USA & she cant work here. Only they say take to long deport to her when there are so many terrorista allso.

Any body want to see her weseal face like animal I put up here allso.

Saludos,
Louie
I am good family man from Puerto Rico
Posted by goldspurs 6 years ago
goldspurs
Sounds good to me. I'll be waiting.
Posted by SocialistRI82 6 years ago
SocialistRI82
To think that I saw no way would agree on anything. Must say I'm suprised that we found common ground. I think we will still differ in how we would approach securing our borders, but at least we recognize that they can't be rounded up. Maybe we should debate what methods of securing the border would be best? I'll start the debate tomorrow (Sunday) and invite you. I'd like to see what we could come up with.
Posted by goldspurs 6 years ago
goldspurs
"We immediately square off you on the right side of the argument, me on the left (far left...ha ha ha) both refusing to give in on anything."

Thats where you are wrong Socialist. I understand that we can not go out and snatch up 20 million people. I do not like that they were allowed in in the first place but there is nothing we can do about that now. I agree that the criminals should be deported and the ones that have been here a few years should be allowed to stay.

I also think that before we can do this we should secure the border to keep this from happening again. Like I said before the fence is not a cure but only a deterrent that should be used along with our means of protecting our borders.
Posted by SocialistRI82 6 years ago
SocialistRI82
Im going to say this and just leave it alone, since its obvious we will not be conceeding our beliefs as a result. 1. If you have a job, and have no violent criminal history you can stay. You will be allowed to stay and work, and pay taxes BUT you will wait in line like everyone else for citizenship/social programs.
2. For those who do not meet the above standards, DEPORTATION.

We keep going over the same old arguements that go on over the radio waves, and on tv everyday. One guy saying they are breaking the law, get them out, build fences, and the other saying let them stay, they are good for us, blah blah blah. Here's the situation: They are here, they cannot be rounded up and kicked out,***they are going to continue to come***. We cannot go back in time and make this go away. What we need to do is keep the ones who meet the standards, and boot the rest. Get these people paying taxes, working, and purchasing. While we are all bickering about what to do the problem is getting worse, and costing us taxpayers lots of money. Goldspurs, people like you and me are part of the problem. We immediately square off you on the right side of the argument, me on the left (far left...ha ha ha) both refusing to give in on anything. Thankfully we are not running the show. What needs to happen is people need to come to compromises which benefit both sides, left/right, American citizens/immigrants. I think we need to just be rational about the costs of what you are proposing, and the effects on the future of immigration. Which will become more prevelent in the coming years.
Posted by goldspurs 6 years ago
goldspurs
Wow...thank you so much for adressing my points.

Fox News is the one to blame for this, eh? Good to know.

You have such a logical argument that defeated mine. Obviously all Americans should side with illegal immigrants.
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