The Instigator
jrhernan
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
twsurber
Con (against)
Winning
11 Points

Immigration

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/6/2010 Category: Politics
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,210 times Debate No: 12491
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (2)

 

jrhernan

Pro

If you study the history of this country, every time the economy tanks, most Americans want to flush the immigrants down that tank. I don't think it's right to scapegoat immigrants every time the economy takes a downturn. Immigrants aren't here to become a burden to our society, but contributing members of our society. The Arizona debate exemplifies nativist rhetoric that seems to be unaware of it's own discriminatory consequences. This is not right. I don't think it's fair that a Spanish-speaking Latino like me can be asked for my papers but a blonde guy with blue eyes will be passed over. Sorry officer, my passport doesn't fit in my wallet. Are you going to ask the white guy behind me for his papers?
twsurber

Con

I wish to thank my opponent for this debate.

There are many generalizations put forth in my opponent's round. Immigration cannot be an all or none concept, but rather a case by case situational. I will first analyze my opponent's case.

OC-1: Everytime the economy tanks, most American's blame it on immigrants.
Economic woes are largely due to government interference with the free market, prolonged conflicts, risky loans,etc.
http://blogs.bnet.com...

OC-2: Immigrants are contributing members of our society.
Very true in many cases. Many immigrants both legal and illegal contribute to the GDP. Many, but not all. It is not possible to place an accurate numerical value due to illegals. Note that illegals use resources but do not pay taxes, which also harms our economy.

OC-3: Racial/ethnic profiling are unfair.
I agree that it must be frustrating to endure proof of citizenship. When inspectors request to see proof of citizenship, they are doing a thankless job that they are hired to do. While I have seen some Mexican ladies with blonde and auburn hair, but the majority of Mexican men and women tend to have a darker complexion and dark hair. Those physical characteristics are probably what inspectors go by. While the inspection is annoying, they are working to help keep America safe, and enforce existing laws. Is it fair to break the law? Should there be a consequence for breaking the law? If a person is legal, then inspect them and tell them that they have done a good job.

My case:
As the CON/NEG, I have to prove that immigration is not always positive.

I will open by saying that I certainly agree that not all immigration is bad. As one of the youngest countries, America established it's roots from immigrants. My own lineage is traced back to the Netherlands on my paternal side and Ireland on my maternal side. Many immigrants have indeed contributed positive things to the United States.

C-1: Why do they come to America?
People come to America for opportunity. People come to America to escape famine, economic depression, unemployment, political unrest, disease, religious persecution, invasion, overpopulation, and the like. America is approximately 235 years old. We are one of the youngest countries in the world. Why haven't older, more experienced countries done more to make their country more appealing? Further, when immigrants come to America, they simultaneously take away their contributions to their former country. A Pakistani doctor practicing medicine in New Jersey is one less Pakistani doctor practicing medicine in Islamabad.

C-2: Economics
The more immigrants we have, the larger the logistical problem becomes. There are many homeless Americans. There are many unemployed Americans. There are many Americans living in substandard conditions, yet we should exacerbate the problem by allowing even more people to come? That doesn't pass the common sense test. Further, there is always the language barrier. This alone accounts for many inconveniences for both the host nation as well as the immigrant. Immigrants, whether legal or illegal, use resources that Americans could use.

C-3: Security
Granted that most immigrants are not hardened criminals. However, it is a fact that some immigrants infiltrate the United States with the intent of causing harm. Some immigrants may even enter the United States with communicable diseases. Organizations with radical or extremist ideaologies may establish any form of a base in America using the cover of a student Visa, and hide under the blanket of stereotypical discrimination. Organized crime such as Russian, Mafia, and others can likewise use immigration to further thier agenda, even against the United States.

CONCLUSION: Many immigrants have and will continue to make positive contributions to the United States. Unfortunately as I have demonstrated, unlimited, illegal, and in some cases legal immigration can also be detrimental to the United States.

Thanks
Debate Round No. 1
jrhernan

Pro

I wish to thank my opponent for his civil response. Many others would get caught up in the emotions of this contentious topic.

You might be surprised, but I actually agree with some of your points. They are very poignant and valid. But I do disagree with some.

On the issue of illegals and taxes, illegals do in fact pay some taxes. They pay sales tax, beer tax, cigarette tax, and sometimes even income tax. The interesting thing is that most of these illegals never claim their tax refunds (for fear of the system) and consequently add to the tax revenue.

The abuse of social service resources is not just an illegal immigrant issue, but an American issue. Many of those who abuse this system are not always illegal, but legal American citizens. Both illegal and American citizens use unscrupulous methods to circumvent the appropriate way of using our social services, and choosing to vilify just the illegals is unfair.

Placing the "language barrier" as a means of justifying curtailing immigration is not very fair. Culture conflict has always existed since the inception of this country with the waves of Irish, Italian, Chinese, Latino, etc. immigration. They should not be rejected for speaking a foreign language, but methods of ameliorating the difficult assimilation/acculturation process should be studied and implemented.
twsurber

Con

I concur that some taxes are almost unavoidable such as sales tax on goods and services. I was referring to federal and state taxes, andn FICA type taxes not paid due to the lack of obtaining a social security number.

I further concur that many Americans are guilty of abusing the system. Both major parties are guilty of supporting programs that contribute to this abuse of services. Although I agree with my opponent, the debate resolution is more focused toward immigration as opposed to deadbeat citizens.

As for the language barrier, I am referring to immigrants coming to the U.S. with the inability to communicate in English. Countless forms, booklets, instructions, pamphlets, phone messages, and the like have to be translated for the for convenience of those who do not speak English at the expense of the taxpayer.

My previous arguments that were dropped are extended. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 2
jrhernan

Pro

jrhernan forfeited this round.
twsurber

Con

Round 2 postitions stand uncontested. Please vote CON. Thanks
Debate Round No. 3
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2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by KeithKroeger91 6 years ago
KeithKroeger91
jrhernantwsurberTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Vote Placed by twsurber 6 years ago
twsurber
jrhernantwsurberTied
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Total points awarded:05