The Instigator
left_wing_mormon
Pro (for)
Winning
27 Points
The Contender
Jlconservative
Con (against)
Losing
9 Points

Impeachment of George Walker Bush and Richard Bruce Cheney.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/23/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,943 times Debate No: 2882
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (11)
Votes (12)

 

left_wing_mormon

Pro

Prior to Congress' October 11th authorization of the Iraq invasion, Bush initiates war in Iraq's No Fly Zone. Bush ordered the tonnage of bombs being dropped on Iraq from 0 in March 2002 and 0.3 in April 2002 to between 7 and 14 tons per month in May-August, reaching a pre-war declaration peak of 54.6 tons in September. Keep in mind that is unconstitutional. March of 2002 was when those bombs were dropped. Wan't until September 19, 2002 President Bush sends the Iraq Resolution to Congress requesting authorization to use military force against Iraq.

This is enough for impeachment. The list goes on. We can't wait for his term as Commander-in-Chief to end. We must bring him to justice for the sake of the 3900+ troops killed in this unconstitutional and unlawful war.
Jlconservative

Con

Jlconservative forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 1
left_wing_mormon

Pro

left_wing_mormon forfeited this round.
Jlconservative

Con

Jlconservative forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
left_wing_mormon

Pro

Sorry everyone for the lack of effort put into this debate. Since my opponet has not even responded to my first post, and I missed on, I will re post this debate.
Jlconservative

Con

Jlconservative forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
left_wing_mormon

Pro

left_wing_mormon forfeited this round.
Jlconservative

Con

Dear, Left wing moron (oh or was it Mormon?) sorry for my tardiness I have been very busy with school for about 3 weeks, (40 page report on Nubian civilization) anyway lets look here reasons why an Impeachment of Bush would be a waste of time. I will even look at the impeachment threw a left wingers view point.

Note: I am a 100% conservative I think Bush did a tremendous job due to the incredible difficulty of his presidency had Algore or Kerry been in the white house god knows what terrible things would have happened to this country.

Charges:

1. When it comes to the Iraq War, the President truly does decide what is credible and what is not credible. Saying that he "intentionally" lied to Congress about the reasons for going to War in the first place would be a losing battle, because the President could easily shift the blame to the CIA and other Intelligence Agencies that gave him their "best information possible" at the time he asked for it. You can't prove he lied about it on purpose. There are a multitude of theories concerning who knew what when, and many of those are plausible and logically sound - but from a legal standpoint they really have no merit.

2. When it comes to the CIA leak scandal, I think the President's lawyers would be able to show that the President had nothing to do with it and that the whole scandal did not include the presidents office exclusively. This is also a losing battle.

3. As for the firing of 8 U.S. Attorneys for what has been shown to be purely political reasons, much of the evidence consists of emails exchanged between the President's staffers and the Justice Department. The President has total deniability. He can simply fire the staffers and move on.

These are just three examples of why what many on the Left deem impeachable offenses are in fact charges that would be very difficult to prove.

It has been a common joke made about President George W. Bush. The man is dumb, they say. An idiot. A bumbler. Imbecile.

It is also the general perception that President Bush failed miserably in his diplomatic efforts prior to Operation Iraqi Freedom. He should have been able to get the world on board, that line of thought goes.

These arguments both rely on the idea that not getting the world on board for Operation Iraqi Freedom was a failure on the part of Bush. He had claimed again and again that he would prefer to have the UN with him, even if he would do it with just a small "coalition of the willing" if necessary. So it seems he wanted to get the world united in this cause, but failed.

1. Bush did not fail in his diplomatic efforts regarding Iraq, he succeeded brilliantly in achieving his goal, and 2) the man is no dummy - in fact, far from it; President Bush is one of the most cunning, politically brilliant men to occupy the White House in decades.

As we have often heard, President Bush is frequently underestimated. While the country and the world labeled him diplomatically inept, he was really very adeptly pretending to be diplomatically inept, while really achieving exactly what he, Cheney, et. al wanted - to not have to share. We can do this alone, they said. And in their hearts and minds they felt that since we would be doing most of the fighting anyway - even with a UN resolution supporting the war - why share the spoils?

It is time to give credit where it is due. President Bush is an amazing statesman. He gives the impression of trying to do the right thing but failing, when really he is accomplishing exactly what he wanted, and yet looking as if he tried to do the right thing. He gets to look like his heart was in the right place, and France and Germany and Russia take heat from the American people for being so difficult and weak.

Often socialist modern liberal thinkers in Los Angeles, Boston or New York will lash out with at the first opportunity to criticize the President of the United States of America, the greatest nation ever created in the history of humankind.

Personally, I find this appalling and yet understand they are just showing their ignorance and proving that they have given their minds to the mass media - TV and newspapers. Now we have heard everyone else's so-called opinion on this matter, generally regurgitated from the TV talking points - now listen to my educated opinion.

Indeed, I 100% support my President and chastise the World Media for putting out a media hit on the United States after the Iraq conflict started. Further, the lies in the media against the US only insights radicals and I consider that a march against freedom. Some critics speak of human rights, indeed I say tell it to the people in London's Tube or Spain's train station or Philippines' Ferry who were merely going about their day or going to work. Or tell it to the people in Bali or any Israeli that has ever died in a Bus from a suicide bomber.

No way am I buying this, attack or claims that the US is against human rights. If a nation-state harbors or allows funding to terrorists thru their banks or cash infusions, then they are guilty as accessories. Before you condemn our CIA, our nation or our President - you need to check facts not media BS.

Our president didn't lie about Iraq, rather the French and Italian intelligence put out false information and a media hit on the US, due to business interests and you either know or should have known this. Acting like a follower, repeating these media incited works and promoting this agenda against the US or our commander in chief is wrong. If you continue, I will write 50 articles this week against your persnickety cause, because Freedom from being blown up is necessary for real human rights against fear.

Americans should fear nothing, the terrorists must fear me, why not let them know, because that is the truth. I pegged you right away with your very first comment I overheard, as to your tendencies for political correctness. Stop badmouthing our President, our Nation, the CIA or anyone who does not side with your personal agenda. Stand for America, stand and unite, this is a great nation, we have a great president and don't you ever forget that truth.
Debate Round No. 4
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by cevvlique 3 years ago
cevvlique
Was the moron thing really necessary? I mean what is so bad about mormons?
Posted by MoonDragon613 9 years ago
MoonDragon613
No, not my logic. Regan Conservative's logic.
Posted by goldspurs 9 years ago
goldspurs
MoonDragon,

by your logic we could impeach all of the Democrat led Congress for their extremly low approval ratings.

http://abcnews.go.com...
Posted by MoonDragon613 9 years ago
MoonDragon613
Well well, a powerful and provocative Conservative response. As a Jackson Liberal, I can't just let these remarks go challenged, and since left wing Mormon isn't up to snuff, I guess that leaves me.

I'll begin with your presentation of impeachment.
"Impeachment was the means by which the Republic would defend itself from officeholders who could no longer command the public's trust."

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm certain you'll "correct" me), but would you say Bush has done a good job of commanding the public's trust? Many (liberals) in America have accused Bush of outright deceit in his misrepresentation of facts in order to persuade the American people to line up behind him in order to enter Iraq. If Impeachment is to protect us from political officers who no longer command the public's trust, as you so eloquently put it, then Bush should certainly be impeached by your standards should he not?

"Instead of being a spoiled little brat who has no idea how good his life is here in the greatest nation on earth, why don't you appreciate the fact that we haven't been attacked on our soil since 9/11."

Can't you say the same thing about people in Iran? I mean they should count their blessings ... after Iran is not Sudan right? I have trouble imagining there Could exist a group of people, such as yourself, who are so cowardly that you would rail against 15 year old kids in response to your fear. If anyone should "grow up" it should be you. The world is a dangerous place. Always is, always will be. But to cower as your doing, and screaming at 15 year olds, that is the pinnacle of cowardice. Liberty will always come at the price of security. When you move out of home to live alone for the first time, you sacrifice the security of parental love for the freedom to be independent. That's what it means to grow up. Perhaps it's time for America to grow up as well, accept the truth that the world is dangerous, but show the world we life with fear, not by it.
Posted by ReaganConservative 9 years ago
ReaganConservative
Wow, Mormon leftist, you really are beginning to creep me out.

"The President, Vice President, and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdeameanors."

A "high misdeameanor" refers not to a criminal offense just short of a felony, but to misbeahvior, bad deamanor. As the Rodino Report expalined, "From the comments of the framers and their contemporaries, the remarks of delegates to the state ratifying conventions, and the removal power debate in the First Congress, it is apparent that the scope of impeachment was not viewed narrowly."

Mormon leftist, according to historical precedent, imeachable misbeahvior means misconduct in the execution of office, or scandalous behavior in his private capacity. Or, as Alexander Hamilton put it, the impeachment power is addressed to "the misconduct of public men or the violation of some public trust."

Impeachment was the means by which the Republic would defend itself from officeholders who could no longer command the public's trust. As Hamilton stated: "Men, in public trust, will much oftener act in such a manner as to render them unworthy of being any longer trusted than in such a manner as to make them obnoxious to legal punishment." The framers recognized that the credibility of the government would be undermined and the nation threatened if the president, judges, or other government officers were seen to be personally corrupt or self-aggrandizing, as if they were above the law.

Instead of being a spoiled little brat who has no idea how good his life is here in the greatest nation on earth, why don't you appreciate the fact that we haven't been attacked on our soil since 9/11. I suggest you watch "Band of Brothers," because after you do, hopefully, you'll realize why nations go to war and why freedom isn't free. I'm disgusted with the ignorance you spew all over this site. Grow up, kid.
Posted by left_wing_mormon 9 years ago
left_wing_mormon
Chenys top aid leaked the name.

Look you are right, I am not as well educated on the issue at hand as I probaly should be. However, my point is that over 500 false claims about the intellegence for entering Iraq have been stated by Cheney/Bush and others in the cabniet. He has abused his power, and the only thing I am asking is, should we hold impeachment hearings. We could learn more through investigations.
Posted by bigbass3000 9 years ago
bigbass3000
Really, so where is the evidence, proving without a doubt that Cheney was responsible for the leak or even had wrongful intentions. Most of you evidenc is based from far left blogs and I wish, I could have debated you.
Posted by left_wing_mormon 9 years ago
left_wing_mormon
Well, I think since Cheney has a direct relation to releasing the name of a C.I.A. agent for political motivations, he is viable for Impeachment. This is called treason.
Posted by bigbass3000 9 years ago
bigbass3000
What did Cheney do, he is just a Vice president, he does not control the armed forces anyways, Bush does.
Posted by bigbass3000 9 years ago
bigbass3000
Two, it says no-fly zone in northern Iraq and it was placed during the gulf war, not the Iraq war. http://www.cfr.org...
It was not illegal.
http://www.fas.org...
The no fly zones, were made in the early 90's to protect the kurds. It was not ratified again, it partically was obselete by the bombings.
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