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In Starcraft II, Terran is OP in comparison to the other two races.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/21/2011 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,373 times Debate No: 15523
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
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The topic is solely on Starcraft II, not I.
Terran - One of the three races in the Starcraft anthology.
OP - Overpowered; imbalanced; too advantageous
Other two races - Protoss and Zerg

Round Format:
Round I - Debate Accepted/Introductions
Round II - Aff [Case] & Neg[Case + Rebuttal]
Round III - Aff [Rebuttal & Summary] & Neg [Rebuttal & Summary]

Good luck to the challenger.



I'd like to thank my opponent for this debate on what I believe is one of the best games of the last decade. I accept this debate under my opponent's terms and I will be proving why either the Protoss army or Zerg army is evenly matched against the Terran army.

Once again, thank you for posting this debate and I look forward to my opponents opening statement.
Debate Round No. 1


Thanks, Con, for accepting this debate.


To establish my point that Terran is indeed OP, I will go over the various "combos" (unit combinations) that are frequently used in Starcraft 2.

- Siege Tanks: Originally, Tanks damaged 70 on Massive units & 1/2 the damage on small units. Now, it does 50 all-around, regardless of the unit size. This completely eliminates the chance of melee characters getting anywhere near, and an ultimate advantage on high-grounds. Known counters are Chargelots (destroyed with 10-20 tanks and marine backup), air units (destroyed with Thors), and Blink Stalkers (useless when Tank is on high grounds/marine counter).

- MMM Drops: Quite possibly the most eco-damaging combo, the MMM drops are played throughout Bronze League to Master's. Basically, with Stim, around 2 full Medivacs can destroy the entire economy. Even with Cannons or Spine Crawlers near the mineral line, 1 Raven can soak up the entire damage.

- Ravens: Simply massing Ravens is a viable strategy, and an unstoppable one. Auto Turrets remain for 180 seconds. Not only can it go behind mineral lines and destroy the eco, it is also effective in eliminating entire bases and expansions. The Seeker Missiles does massive splash damage.

- Thor + Siege Tank: This combo is almost impossible to beat. 3 Weapon Ups gives Thors 39 Damage, and Siege Tanks around 60. 15 Thors cannot be beat without a large horde of Zerglings; Tanks counter them. Vice versa, Tanks are lost to air; Thors counter air. This combination is really, impossible to beat, especially in late-game.

- Reaper: 5 Reapers, well-microed, can take out an entire mineral line, even after their patched Nerf.

I ask the Con to provide effective counter-methods to each individual combo I have listed, or simply show me how Zerg and/or Toss is OP or at the least, balanced, in comparison to Terran.

Thanks, and good luck!




My opponent offered 5 unit compositions and situations that he claims is over-powered. I'll give a viable counter for both Zerg and Protoss for each point my opponent made.

One thing needs to be said first, though. All counters must be views with the mindset that both players are of equal skill. This includes the same ability to mirco. A Zerg player at 100 APM is equal to a Terran APM of 50, just as an example. The Zerg needs more to mirco, and though the Terran does not, they are both using their armies to their maximum potential.


Before I comment, I'd like to point out the most common unit composition for Tanks, which would be Marine, Marauder, Tanks. My opponent mentions that air units are useless because of Thors, however, Thors are very seldom used with those other three units due to economic struggle. Instead, most Terran players will opt for the very common Mech build of Tanks, Thors, and the occasional Hellions. Because of this,, the Terran unit composition will still have an exploitable weakness if the opponent does ample scouting and smart decisions. After all, you cannot simple have all units because, again, economy.

- Protoss counters: The one unit my opponent failed to bring up as a counter is the Immortal. Immortals are the absolute best counter to Tanks due to their Hardened Shields. Thors are equally outmatched, making Tank/Thor weak, and most smart Protoss players will use Collosi to counter any Marine/Marauder/Tank movement.

- Zerg counters: Marine/Marauder/Tanks is on equal strength with Muta/Ling/Bane, therefore creating an even battle with even results. No OP present. Thors are even a worse choice because the game will end upon the Zerg player teching to Brood Lords, which are a Meching army's worst nightmare. Even lings would be super effective by themselves.

MMM Drops:

- The reason my opponent says this is OP is due to econ damage. Medivacs are easily spotted with scouting, however. Zerg can spread out Overlords while Protoss can use Observers and good Pylon placement. One wrong step with a Medi-vac can equal a huge loss of army resources with literally zero return. Ravens are not viable threat because of the fact that they take so long to get out, making an early to early-mid game rush an automatic win if the opponent commits the resources to it.

Ravens: Same as above. They take extremely long to get out, making you very vulnerable if you commit to mass Ravens (the only way they can actually win games). Any air combat units can easily deal with Ravens. Seeker Missles, though powerful, are the most easily dodged spell in the game, and once used, Ravens have practically no energy to fend attacks off with or to attack with themselves.

Thor+Siege Tank: I covered most of this in the "Tanks" section. My opponent stated here, though, that Zerglings were countered by Tanks. How can this be, though, when Tanks cannot even attack Zerglings if they are to close? Zerglings are melee, units, so they're always too close. Also, splash damage can hurt friendly Thors just as much as the Zerglings. Zerglings are almost much more cost-effective in this fight.

Reapers: Very much like the MMM drop, these can be easily prevented with simple scouting. Ample warning, Reapers cannot beat any ranged unit in a 1 on 1 fight except the Marine, and the only melee unit that might have trouble is the Zealot, since Zerglings have creep and Queens to assist. Protoss can guard by warping in exclusively Stalkers, however, if he scouted the Reapers early. Mass Reapers in the mid to late game aren't really even a question, as any mid to late game army can defeat them in a fight. Again, scouting is key.

Most of my arguments above prove why Terran isn't OP and that any fight can be equally fought due to counters. What really matters, however, is the ability of the player to scout, which can be equally used by both players.

To close, there's no reason that Terran should be deemed OP. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 2


Thank you, Con, for your case.

I will begin with the nearly-insurmountable MMM combo/Reaper eco-harass:

Con suggests that "simple scouting" will solve the problem entirely. The fact is that, even with an Overlord or "well-placed" Pylon nearby, it is near impossible to see an incoming Medivac, especially since SC II lacks a feature to alert an incoming enemy unit. The same goes for Reapers. What makes both of them so devastating? MMM includes Medivacs, which can HEAL stim. It is very hard to take out a MMM combo without a large army w/ AA support (to kill the Medivacs). By the time the Protoss or the Zerg army arrives, all the workers on the mineral line are dead, and the CC or Hatch badly damaged. If the MMM manages to pull out beforehand, it can wreak havoc onto another base/expand/teammate's base. As well, Reapers are deadly due to the mind game of SC 2. Once 3 or 4 Reapers take out the mineral line, the other player is already psychologically discouraged and distressed, with their eco damaged. The fact that Terran has already two eco-damage units is a significant factor in its OP-ness. Not to mention that fast-moving Helions can do considerable harass as well. Scouting does not do much, especially when Medivacs and Reapers can easily take less obvious routes.

Now, onto Tanks.
Siege Tanks, again, have a splash damage of 50 to all units, regardless of size. 10-20 Tanks can basically take out literally all Zerg ground units (one-shot K.O. for Lings and Banelings). In a Marine + Tank combo, even if the Zerg player tries to take out the Rines w/ Banelings, they are destroyed by the Tanks' long-range fire long before they even come close. Mutalisks may be used, but 2-3 Thor backup + Marines can easily eliminate them (remember, Thor is the ultimate counter to all light-armored Air units like Mutas). Broodlords may be a good idea, but they cost 250 Minerals and 250 Gas. Thors, or even Vikings (150 Minerals and 75 Gas, and can attack both Air and Ground) can eliminate Brood Lords. I have found that teching to BL's in large amounts is too costly to be effectively pursued until the late game.
For Protoss, all they can do on ground is Blink Stalkers and Chargelots. Again, 20 Tanks do an aggregate sum of 1000 damage over a splash area, enough to kill a horde of a ground Protoss army. Marines effectively counter Stalkers and Chargelots. Unless the Protoss can pump out large amounts of carriers in mid-game (where Tanks are most frequently used) - which is pretty much impossible and foolhardy - Tanks are unbeatable. The Con suggests "warping in" units near the Siege Tank. Again, with the cooldown of the Warpgate, I doubt that there will be enough time to warp in a large army unnoticed (again, as the Con suggests, simple scouting will do the trick!)

I'd like to add on a new point: Planetary Fortress! 40 Splash damage on all ground units, with multiple SCVs constantly repairing it? This combo makes it almost impossible to capture an expand WITHOUT a significantly large amount of army or air. However, for the other two races, no such expo-defending option is given. Even with 20 Lings, the P.F. takes out 5 at a time with one-shot kills.

I await Con's response, and urge the peanut gallery's concord that Terran is indeed OP in comparison to the other two races.

Thank you.


I'll simply be addressing each of my opponents point, as proving he is wrong would be proving balancing opposed to me trying to say another race is simply better.

First, my opponent says that scouting isn't enough, and that it is nearly impossible due to lack of alert. In all honesty, a player who isn't attentive enough to see a medi-vac incoming DESERVES to get hit my it. There are many many ways to avoid it, which I will present now.

1. Early scouting with an observer or changeling. Simply knowing that your opponent is creating medi-vacs makes the entire point of dropping nearly useless. A smart player would then invest in photon cannons or spore crawlers, which make the Terran drop not only impossible, but HARMFUL to the Terran player. On wrong step can lose an entire medi-vac of units.
2. Early aggression will always beat a Terran who is trying MMM drops. Medi-vac tech is costly, as the opponent usually can't invest gas into Maruaders or Tanks as they're trying to get the drop as soon as possible.
3. Protoss and Zerg have ways to drop and harass as well. Warp Prisms and the Nydus Network are under-used, yes, but are very effective as they both offer no real loss of units if they fail, unlike losing a medi-vac full of units.

Next, my opponent brought up helions and Reapers. Easy way to deal with them? Move workers off of the line. Simple. Reapers and helions cannot simply chase the drones or probes because any smart player would rush their army to fight. Neither unit can cause significant structure damage as well. Yes, Reapers have strong anti-building weapons, but they would only kill a building before an army reached it if they were in mass. A mass reaper army would be the absolute weakest army in the game, making any of their opponent's attacks 100% successful.

My opponent's Tank argument is mainly invalid as well. He assumes that the opponent would simply wait for him to get 20 some tanks and they push out. The reality is, that the Terran Army cannot simple mass units until it's time to push out. As stated before, Warp Prisms and the Nydus Network would make bunkering down nearly impossible. Also, the most defensive Zerg unit, the Roach, can easily withstand Tank damage, and as soon as the Tanks are down, Marines are practically useless again them.

The Protoss, again, have the Immortal, which takes minimal damage from tanks and does extra damage to them.

My opponent then brought up the fact that the Terran player could invest in a Planetary Fortress. Here, the pros and cons of choice come into effect. When a Terran player builds a PF, they are not building an Orbital Command. They lose high economic power to due MULES and they cannot scan. Granted, the Terran player usually does not change their first base into a PF, but only one Orbital Command makes any cloaked attacks extremely powerful due to lack of scans because they had to go exclusively MULES to make up for the lost minerals.

Also, PF's can't aim up. Easy counter? Air units. Since the Terran player is basically choosing to play defensive, the Protoss or Zerg armies can simply just mass units. Roaches and Immortals again take little damage and can easily destroy PF's.

Again, if Terran was simply better than the other two races, then why would pros use the other two races at all? Terran mechanics are just simpler, but that doesn't make them better. High risk and high reward is the basic principle. Sure, you can simply load 8 Marines into a medi-vac, but what happens when you lose them all to a few roaming Phoenix due to the fact that you were simply scouted in the early-mid game?
Thank you. Vote CON.
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by Terminal 7 years ago
Yup, Terran's mechanics are so simple that mass up'd Rines cannot be countered without Colossi or Banelings, while they themselves counter almost everything else - Lings, Roaches, VRs, Hydras, Stalkers, Zealots, ... ;)
Posted by Puck 7 years ago
Yeah but hellions have wheels, ergo zomg imba travel around your base from the edges real fast like. And stuff. Yeah.
Posted by GavinAurion 7 years ago
Hey, I get this argument since it's mainly drops that cause eco damage. =D
Posted by Puck 7 years ago
@ Dmetal - This is what happens to greedy Terrans. ^^

@GavinAurion - spore colonies don't stop drop play, they just prevent it directly behind the mineral line. :P
Posted by Dmetal 7 years ago
Pro is noob. I love fighting terran because players are so predictable, even in platinum. Most plat terran are only there because noobs like pro don't know how to make 2 collossi or don't know how to use roaches or banes. Although the only build I do as terran that holds for me in plat is fast expo and mass rines and rauders with ten racks, Terran suck!
Posted by htedrom 7 years ago
yea, fun debate but a little ridiculous. If terran actually was OP, all the pros would play terran... while sc2 may not yet be as balanced as sc1, it's not like the pros are only playing terran... you could cite unlimited unit combos, and the simple fact is that the pros know the game better than us, and they're not crazy t-favoured.

that said I was diamond 1v1 in the beta and I definitely had the hardest time against T... if you think it's bad now you should have played before they did some of the mmm nerfs. then again, roaches were ridiculous in the beta too. anyway, point is, the proof is in the pros.
Posted by GavinAurion 7 years ago
@Puck - Exactly. Most "balancing" talk doesn't matter. It's actual player skill and decision making.

@Brenavia - You know there like, tens of thousands of Bronze division, some better than others, right? A lot of things you just brought up aren't really valid in high levels of play.
Posted by Brenavia 7 years ago
I am the 5th best player in Bronze division (i know its only bronze, but i play like once a week). Terrans are very much overpowered. I play as all factions for fun, but when I try to win Im Terran. MMM is perhaps the best thing since sliced bread, because after you take out their economy and the enemy tries to get their units to attack, you can load up and pull out. I have done mass rushes, tank rushes, and thors rushes before, but MMM is by far the best. Also, my favorite and most fun stategy being Terran is mass Battlecruisers. When they have the armor and weaponry upgrades, they are nearly impossible to stop. Not only do tanks not attach them, but they can defeat Thors and other high tech units using yamoto guns or simply focus firing. I cant wait to see how this debate turns out :)
Posted by Puck 7 years ago
Talking of balance is pointless until you get to A & S league skill level e.g., Korean GSL. Until then it is a matter of skill improvement/skill imbalance and can't be adequately judged as game balance.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Puck 7 years ago
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro never adequately established how the mechanics (since skill level being equal was never challenged) was broken in regards to basic things like drop play and early harass. Most of Pro's arguments deal with skill level.
Vote Placed by Dmetal 7 years ago
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: pro noob!