The Instigator
ninjafifa
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
laker7745
Con (against)
Losing
2 Points

In WWII the USSR played a larger role in defeating the Nazis than America.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
ninjafifa
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/18/2014 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 696 times Debate No: 46171
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (1)

 

ninjafifa

Pro

First round is acceptance and give definitions/RA if need be.
laker7745

Con

Not by any means, The United States of America effectively saved Europe this is a well known fact, if it were not for the US, then Europe would look very different, the only reason that the Russians made it to Berlin before the Americans was because of "Operation Market Garden" the failure that was. British Field Marshal Montgomery took all of George Patton's fuel and diverted it to his men for this mission, this immobilized Patton who had been steaming to Berlin and expected to be there by Christmas of 1944, but instead he wasn't given fuel so he couldn't move, the USSR contributed most definitely but they fought for themselves and themselves only, they were in fact attributed to many more rapes, and pillages than the *Germans* themselves, so no the USSR did not play a larger role than America in WW2 it wasn't even until America got involved in the war that the USSR made some headway.
Debate Round No. 1
ninjafifa

Pro

The United States coming in and saving Europe is a huge misconception. Yes without the US army D-Day would not have been possible, but the fact remains that the USSR defeated 90% of the German Divisions as well as stopped the German advance, thereby turning the tide of war in against the Nazis. Furthermore, the Nazis needed fuel to continue the war; the Nazis planned on gaining this fuel from attacking and taking control of the oil fields in the Caucasus. If the Germans were able to take these oil fields then they would have had enough fuel to not only push forward and take out Moscow, but also to fuel their North African Campaign. Thereby, defeating the Ally's strategy of attacking the soft under belly of Europe. Fortunately, however, they were able to hold the city of Stalingrad (now Volgograd) and thereby keeping this fuel out of the reach of the Nazis.
See, the USSR depleted the German army and forced it to spread so thinly that allowed D-Day and the invasion of Italy possible and be successful.

Furthermore, the Red Army was not the only force attacking the Germans in the USSR. Militia from Ukraine and other Eastern countries also took part in destroying supplies lines, disrupting communication, and stalling the Germans, just like the French underground rebelling. They also played a major role in defeating the Nazi army and further the over spread of its army.

Now to Rebut My Opponents Case:
The USSR did make it to Berlin first, and no matter what the cause of this was or their motivations were, the fact remains that the USSR effectively ended the war in Europe by taking Berlin.
And if you do not buy that argument, USSR still did more damage to the Germans that both the American, British, and Canadian forces did combined.
Yes the Red Army and Stalin did some incredibly terrible things, but we are not debating which faction is worst we are debating which faction played a more major role in defeating the Nazis.
And finally, USSR was making major headway before the Americans entered the war against the Nazis and the USSR received little to no help from the Americans or the British, it was the citizens of USSR and there resolve to defend the motherland that defeated the Nazis.

Conclusion:
The Red Army and the Militia of the USSR did so much more damage to the Nazi army than the Americans ever did and stopped the Nazis from gaining valuable resources. Furthermore, the Americans entered the war late and some historians would in fact argue that Canada did more damage than the Americans in WWII.

Thank you for your time and good luck to my opponent.
laker7745

Con

I do not believe the USSR defeated 90% of the German Invasion, as the USSR at the time controlled Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Romania, and Bulgaria, all of which were under German occupation until late 1944, AFTER the United States invaded France forcing German supplies and troops to be moved to the French front. Stalingrad? How about Moscow? These cities are well into Russia, but by this point the Germans could see these and other cities of the USSR. While the USSR might have won these battles themselves, they were losing the war as the Germans were again preparing to make a farther push into Moscow which would have crippled the USSR and effectively lost the war on their front, the United States conducted it's invasion of France and Italy.

In addition, while the resistance forces played a role in World War 2, it was a minor one the only major effort being the Battle of Osuchy, in which the Polish Resistance broke through German lines and met with the USSR Commanders but neither side could agree so they ended up being crushed by the Germans. Destroying a few supply lines and disrupting communication is not something that wins you a war, only something that buys you some time, so these resistance were also losing their fights.

Rebuttal to my Rebuttal:
Yes the USSR did make it to Berlin, and yes they did take it. This does not mean they won the war. As you see, the USSR again did not make any major advances until it was Post-D Day. In fact the USSR was still fighting deep in USSR territory in late 1943, making little to no advances on German lines, and the only effectve and reasonable explination for the high death toll on the Eastern Front was the weather, it was -22F in most cases and the Germans, who had not been expecting this kind of weather slowly froze to death in their Fall uniforms.

Logical Conclusion:
The United States invasion of France was a major turning point in the war that allowed the Russians to have some breathing room as the Germans began fighting a two front war. It was during this point and this point only that the Russians made advances, while they held the Germans out of the oil fields this mattered little as the Axis controlled North Africa which could have sustained them for much longer.

Sources:
1. http://en.wikipedia.org...
2. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...
3. http://en.wikipedia.org...(World_War_II)
4. http://en.wikipedia.org...(World_War_II)
5. http://www.commandposts.com...
6. http://orientalreview.org...
7. http://listverse.com...
8. http://terrafirma.umwblogs.org...;
Debate Round No. 2
ninjafifa

Pro

ninjafifa forfeited this round.
laker7745

Con

My opponent forfeits?
Debate Round No. 3
ninjafifa

Pro

ninjafifa forfeited this round.
laker7745

Con

Very well.
Debate Round No. 4
ninjafifa

Pro

ninjafifa forfeited this round.
laker7745

Con

laker7745 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
No comments have been posted on this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by STALIN 3 years ago
STALIN
ninjafifalaker7745Tied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:32 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro showed that the USSR did more since the USSR captured Berlin and destroyed most of the Nazi army. Both sides forfeited. Con did provide some sources so I will give him the points for sources. Overall, this was a poor debate on both sides. Neither sides really backed up its arguments.