The Instigator
knick-knack
Pro (for)
Winning
17 Points
The Contender
Kleptin
Con (against)
Losing
7 Points

In a democracy, civil disobedience is an appropriate weapon in the fight for justice

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
knick-knack
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/12/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 9,309 times Debate No: 5365
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (7)
Votes (4)

 

knick-knack

Pro

Hi

5,000 characters, 2 round debate, open to everybody

I believe this for the following three reasons:

1.Bring stability to a society
2.Democratic governments accommodate civil disobedience
3.Civil disobedience brings immediate attention to an unjust law

For my first point is that civil disobedience is a beneficial behavior in bringing about stability to a society. I would like to point out a few examples such as the Women's Suffrage movement from 1848 to 1920; it acquired the women's right to vote. In Germany 1982-1986, there was a non-violent protest against deployment of Pershing II and Cruise Missiles, 3000 people sat in front of Mutlangen a military base. These people blocked military traffic that goes in and out of the base. After the four year protest the INF Treaty was signed it regulated all land base intermediate range nuclear forces, it marked the end of the Cold War and led to the demise of the Warsaw Pact. Governments have been improved by acts of civil disobedience like the examples I have just stated, this is important because if there is an unjust law or policy or an act that is in a government that the people feel need changing then a citizen can fight for what they believe in. And in democratic governments groups and individuals have utilized civil disobedience as a weapon in the fight for justice that has gained rights, created countries, changed social norms, and improved or saved millions lives.
My second point that democratic governments provide for and accommodate acts of civil disobedience I would like to use an example in the late 1960s. Two students John and Mary Beth Tinker in Des Moines Iowa were protesting against the Vietnam War by wearing black armbands. This was against the policies and rules of the public school; this is an act of civil disobedience. They were suspended until they returned to school without the armbands. The parents of the students filed a lawsuit; the case was a tied vote at the district court and was appealed to the Supreme Court. In 1969 the Supreme Court ruled in favor of John and Mary Beth Tinker and validation their civil disobedience by a 7-2 decision. This example shows that America, the greatest example of a democracy allows for and accommodates acts of involving civil disobedience. Democracies allow levels of dispute in a society, such as protesting or assemblies or conventions and civil disobedience. Governments allow this because it corrects problems and mistakes in laws that have been made, and makes their society better.
To my third and final point that civil disobedience brings immediate attention to an unjust law. If a person writes a letter or sends an E-mail to a senator it has to go through secretaries, then maybe to the senator then maybe bring attention to the problem then maybe the problem will be addressed then maybe to a bill then maybe a law. This method of trying to bring justice is not effective, nor efficient. However civil disobedience brings immediate attention to a problem or unjust law. It gets media coverage it gets people excited and care about the issue. That then puts pressure on representatives to quickly address the issue, to look at the problem and rethink what is the correct way. This will correct the unjust law quicker and make society that much better for its citizens.
In conclusion the people who are being civilly disobedient are not just fighting for a petty cause or just being rebellious they are fighting for Justice, for what is just, fair, and equitable in that society and that is why you should vote in affirmation of this resolution.
Thank You
Kleptin

Con

First of all, I want to say thank you to my opponent for creating this topic, and "hello" to all the people who remember me. This is my first debate in my return from the grave and the first one I'm participating in with the new site.

The examples that my opponent listed, for the most part, are examples of how civil disobedience has brought about positive changes in America. The problem, however, is that America is not an exact democracy.

The American form of government is not a true democracy, because not every person has an equal access to equal power. Laws are not passed based on the wants and needs of the American public directly, Laws are passed through money.

In a Democracy, rich businessmen practicing immoral acts to acquire wealth would not be able to stand against the majority, who recognize their practices and wish to pass a law restricting them.

However, this is one of the most common practices of the American tradition: Using money to buy power. Lobbying is rampant in this country, special interest groups rely more on bribery than by having a uniform voice. The country is not run by the people. The country is run by the people with the most STUFF, and by people who want that STUFF.

In a democracy, civil disobedience would not be an appropriate weapon in the fight for justice. Necessarily, the exercise of each individual's voting power would be the only appropriate weapon in a democracy. The fact that civil disobedience needs to exist, is because some power is interfering with Democracy and perverting it into something else.
Debate Round No. 1
knick-knack

Pro

I would like to start off saying that America is considered a Constitutional DEMOCRACY and also a Representative DEMOCRACY and an Electoral DEMOCRACY and a few other DEMOCRACIES are also included in that list. So in all sense of the resolution America is considered A DEMOCRACY!

Also, now proving America is a Democracy my opponent has agreed with me and saying "The examples that my opponent listed, for the most part, are examples of how civil disobedience has brought about positive changes in America." POSITIVE CHANGES!!! meaning it was a good thing that they happened and are appropriate in fighting for justice.

I really don't get why he said that, but in all honesty a person would never agree with his opponent in a debate... So disregarding that statement all together I can still disprove his case.

This debate isn't even about how the US government works, or lobbyists, or about money buying power. It's about civil disobedience and how it's important for a democratic society.

Second, the statement referring to America "The country is not run by the people. The country is run by the people with the most STUFF, and by people who want that STUFF." it is an OPINION, NOT A FACT. I have listed FACTS that have proven my point using examples of civil disobedience that have worked in the fight for justice. All my opponent is doing is harping on America and the supposed way that the government works.

Thirdly, my opponent has not given any reason why civil disobedience is not appropriate to fight for JUSTICE, he just said that "the exercise of each individuals voting power would be the only appropriate weapon in a democracy". Which says nothing against civil disobedience.

And lastly, civil disobedience is an appropriate way to change the governments UNJUST laws or actions toward its people.

Thanks and vote PRO!
Kleptin

Con

"My opponent has not given any reason why civil disobedience is not appropriate to fight for JUSTICE"

My opponent says that in a democracy, civil disobedience is an appropriate weapon in the fight for justice. I argue that civil disobedience can ONLY be an appropriate weapon if a government STRAYS from an actual democratic system. You use civil disobedience to bring a corrupt government back to an actual Democracy.

"So in all sense of the resolution America is considered A DEMOCRACY!"

If you call a dog's tail a leg, the dog doesn't have five legs. It still has only 4. The United States of America is called a democracy, but it simply is not. The definition of "democracy" as provided by Merriam Webster:

1 a: government by the people ; especially : rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections

Although we do operate under a system of representation, this representation is not accurate. Because of lobbying, corrupt special interest groups, and greedy legislators, we cannot trust our representatives to adequately and accurately portray the public's wants. Thus, this is NOT a government in which supreme power is vested in the people. Rather, it is a government in which supreme power is vested in people with means, people who already have power, and people who have enough money to sway those in power.

"Also, now proving America is a Democracy".

The proof was not complete, so this can be ignored.

"This debate isn't even about how the US government works, or lobbyists, or about money buying power. It's about civil disobedience and how it's important for a democratic society."

I disagree. The fact that such corruption occurs shows that what America is, strays from what democracy should be. I argue that in a true democracy, civil disobedience need not even exist.

"Second, the statement referring to America "The country is not run by the people. The country is run by the people with the most STUFF, and by people who want that STUFF." it is an OPINION, NOT A FACT."

It is not merely an opinion
http://www.opensecrets.org...

Lobbying is legalized bribery. Unless my opponent believes that every human has perfect morals and that they are God incarnate, he has absolutely no reason to counter my assertion that political backroom deals and plenty of exchanged favors go on behind the back of the American public. From the statistics, the most money spent on Lobbying was by the Pharmaceutics industry and the Insurance industry. Why? The answer is simple. These industries make up Managed Care, which is essentially health insurance. Politically speaking, Universal Health Care should have come about quite a while ago, yet, there have not been any plans to aid millions of Americans having to suffer through skyrocketing insurance costs. This is because the rich intend to stay rich. If America were a true democracy, the people would be able to regulate Managed care economically. This is not the case.

Although my opponent would like us to believe that we live in a perfect democracy, we must admit that something is amiss. If supreme power does not rest with the people (examine the results of the 2000 Election, where Gore won the popular vote) how can my opponent say America is a democracy?

Thank you, and vote CON.
Debate Round No. 2
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Izzythebuzybee 4 years ago
Izzythebuzybee
Hey!
I really liked this debate, and I was wonderinf if I could use some of this for my project in school.

Thank you!
Izzy
Posted by Kleptin 8 years ago
Kleptin
Haha, I don't really care. I'll switch my vote to you if you want :P

This is one of my "throwaway" debates where I argue against a point I completely agree with XD
Posted by knick-knack 8 years ago
knick-knack
I'm sorry to add on to the debate after its over but I just can't resist because in my opponents second roud post second paragraph last line he said-

"You use civil disobedience to bring a corrupt government back to an actual Democracy."

HE JUST AGREED WITH THE RESOLUTION! That's what this whole debate is about. How is he winning! I'm baffled. But I'm not complaining, just in awe. Disregard this comment if you please. And don't vote according to it. That isn't fair to Kleptin.

But he still agreed with me.
Posted by CoronerPerry 8 years ago
CoronerPerry
There is no true democracy left in the world. it is not efficient for every single person to vote on every little thing. besides, rather than refuting whether or not america is a democracy, look at the whole point of the debate, CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE! sheesh.
Posted by s0m31john 8 years ago
s0m31john
"Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy."
-Ron Paul
Posted by JBlake 8 years ago
JBlake
Officially, the U.S. government is, as Rezz points out, a Federal Republic. We have the slightly democratic principle of universal suffrage, but it is employed in a Republican form of government.

A democracy is when the people directly represent themselves, they vote on their own behalf. Democracy is a pretty word to throw around, though.
Posted by Rezzealaux 8 years ago
Rezzealaux
"I would like to start off saying that America is considered a Constitutional DEMOCRACY and also a Representative DEMOCRACY and an Electoral DEMOCRACY and a few other DEMOCRACIES are also included in that list. So in all sense of the resolution America is considered A DEMOCRACY!"

The WikiBible says you're wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
The United States of America—usually referred to as the United States, the U.S., or America—is a CONSTITUTIONAL FEDERAL REPUBLIC comprising fifty states and a federal district. The country is situated mostly in central North America, where its forty-eight contiguous states and Washington, D.C., the capital district, lie between the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans, bordered by Canada to the north and Mexico to the south.

THE WIKIBIBLE IS THE TRUTH!!!!!

I am copying Kureputin's case for latar usage.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Tatarize 8 years ago
Tatarize
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Vote Placed by Kleptin 8 years ago
Kleptin
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Vote Placed by knick-knack 8 years ago
knick-knack
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Vote Placed by Rezzealaux 8 years ago
Rezzealaux
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